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o.k. One thing I really don't get. how can a medevil ork axe break through power armour? this thing has stumped me eversince I started playing 40k. same with slug guns. I really don't get it. can anyone elaborate?

yourdaddy wrote:o.k. One thing I really don't get. how can a medevil ork axe break through power armour? this thing has stumped me eversince I started playing 40k. same with slug guns. I really don't get it. can anyone elaborate?

Quite simple really, ork slugga's are closer to bolters in calibre than modern pistols and choppa's have half a ton of ork powering them

Then theres the whole orks are all latent psykers and their belief in thinks makes it true thing...

The power comes from the old "red wunz go fasta", there belief that it works makes it so. On a side note when i first played 40k orks were armed with bolters.

Plus ork weapons are solid chunks of metal and that tends to dent things, and in some of the fluff thr orks make note of hitting beakies joints for max effect har har har

How about how IG combat knives/bayonettes can pierce terminator armour? Fluff-wise, orks, on their own stand very little chance against a "movie marine" and really needs a lucky hit to get through the plates.

Orks are really, really strong and vicious. They only have S3 base because they're a bit clumsy, but when they charge they have S4 because they're running fowards at full-pelt swinging their arms like lunatics. If S4 is a Marine's strength, which is probably at least as strong as a professional olympic weightlifter, or even stronger, then think how hard they'd hit if they were holding a sharp chunk of metal.

Ork weapons are powerful because they're designed to shoot big bullets that explode or punch through flesh with ease. Bolters are S4 because they fire .75 caliber explosive bullets that can blow you to pieces, but Ork weapons just fire big bullets that rip you apart under a constant barrage. Remember that Marines still have a 3+ save, so there's less than a 50% chance for an Ork shoota or slugga to penetrate their armour.

I think cheese hit the nail on the head. Thats EXACTLY why Ork weapons do what they do.


I think your problem was you were thinking of the Ork choppa, as a regular ol axe. And the slugga as a regular ol junky gun. Sluggas are HUGE. and choppas are HUGE. And Orks are friggin massive piles of muscle and really really pissed off. Thats a combination that causes some real bad endings.

That, and if the Ork believes that his axe will go through power armour, it will go through power armour.

Ork sluggas are definitely not designed to be a one shot, one kill weapon, like the explosive-round boltguns. For one, Orks cannot aim for gak, so they prefer to just constantly bombard their target until either their armor breaks down or they get close enough to hit them. On the issue of the choppas, well it has already been said, Orks are huge, furious, and strong as hell. That much force behind a surface area as small as an ax blade is bound to penetrate most things.

Yes, a single shot is never a single shot.

Think more like those 2 shots from a slugga per turn are more like a full magazine of ammo being sent towards that marine.

Orks like stuff that is loud and shoots lots of stuff. you have to think of Machine guns when you think slugga and not assault rifle.

Remember that Orks are so numerous that their combined thoughts can warp reality, which is why red vehicles DO go faster and why their crude shootas DO work for an Ork, but not a human.

The exception to this is Mekboy technology, which is actually better than the Imperium's in most cases.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Remember that Orks are so numerous that their combined thoughts can warp reality, which is why red vehicles DO go faster and why their crude shootas DO work for an Ork, but not a human.

The exception to this is Mekboy technology, which is actually better than the Imperium's in most cases.

Go Go Gadget-KFF!

There is something else to remember...Ork technology grows as the Meks encounter new foes and stronger enemies....while the Imperium's technology continues to diminish.

The Imperium actually needs their weapons to work....Orks only have to believe that they do.

Mekboy tech is better than the Imperium's? Is that just because they believe it is or are they actually better engineers?

No, Mekboyz really are better engineers than the Adeptus Mechanicus because they aren't afraid of new technology. Look at some of their stuff. A gun that can fire things through the Warp? A force field that covers more than one person? The Imperium, compared to the Orks, may seem superior in technology at a glance, but Orks are always going forwards. There's a lengthy bit of fluff in the Ork codex about the War of Dakka, in which a Warboss' Lootas and Flash Gitz took to looting Tau weapons and successfully using them (even making them shootier), and Meks were looting Tau vehicles and making them faster and tougher.

As others have said, you have the Ork mind at work, as well as several hundred kilograms of incredibly dense Ork muscle behind a big choppa.

Mek's have the Brainboy's concepts in them, and with a huge amount of curiosity and dedication to making things explodes from that base, they can get some really amazing stuff going. Although they're far more liable to forget about it 9/10 of the way through, and end up with it melting whoever was trying to use it.

Also, a slugga's bore is huge, much bigger than a bolt pistol's, and choppas are probably made out an extremely hard material (considering their high status as weapons) with nob and warboss choppas often being power or chain weapons as well.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Remember that Orks are so numerous that their combined thoughts can warp reality, which is why red vehicles DO go faster and why their crude shootas DO work for an Ork, but not a human.

This was brought up in the 3rd Edition codex (along with Sporing, it was a major change in Ork background)and since has been largely disproven, or at least alternative explanations have been offered.

The Armageddon Ork Hunters featured in WD were allowed to be armed with Shootas, which they could actually fire. If Ork weapons didn't work for non-Orks, this wouldn't have been possible. Additionally, the "Red Wuns Go Fasta" was pointed out in the new Codex to possibly be related to a Mek painting the fastest vehicles red subconsciously and not to the magical powers of red paint.

Unfortunately, the "Orks believe it, so it works!" explanation has been overused. In doing so, it really diminishes the Orks, turning them into psychic idiots rather than the cunning, brutal savages they really should be.

Barkdreg Badtoof wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:Remember that Orks are so numerous that their combined thoughts can warp reality, which is why red vehicles DO go faster and why their crude shootas DO work for an Ork, but not a human.

This was brought up in the 3rd Edition codex (along with Sporing, it was a major change in Ork background)and since has been largely disproven, or at least alternative explanations have been offered.

The Armageddon Ork Hunters featured in WD were allowed to be armed with Shootas, which they could actually fire. If Ork weapons didn't work for non-Orks, this wouldn't have been possible. Additionally, the "Red Wuns Go Fasta" was pointed out in the new Codex to possibly be related to a Mek painting the fastest vehicles red subconsciously and not to the magical powers of red paint.

Unfortunately, the "Orks believe it, so it works!" explanation has been overused. In doing so, it really diminishes the Orks, turning them into psychic idiots rather than the cunning, brutal savages they really should be.

The ork gesalt field is mentioned in the latest codex alot more than alternative theories, its a pretty up to date explanation.

I'm not sure why requiring psychic ability to work would make them any different from eldar equipment, to be honest.

There's a difference between "it works because of psychic powers" and "it requires psychic powers to work".

Personally, I've never been a big fan of the whole ork gestalt psychic theory. I'm hoping GW moves away from it.

As for the choppa, as stated earlier its more the size of the weapon and the size of the ork wielding it then the tech-level of the weapon. Its just a really honkin' big knife or axe probably made out of a strong metal alloy.

I can't remember for the life of me what codex or book it was in, but there was an imperial report saying that in terms of teleportation, warp field manipulation, and force field technology, the orks are leaps and bounds above all other races (aside from necrons with the teleportation I'd assume). Things like the mass tellyporta attacks on Priscina, shokk attack guns, and man portable force-fields able to shield a titan from harm are pretty darn impressive!

-Tyr

Yeah, they inherited the Brainboy's technology. Which was probably related to the Old One's technology in some way.

The Eldar have some nice stuff, but they lost a bunch of it during the fall. The Necrons have nice stuff, obviously. The Imperium's Dark Age stuff is great, when they actually find it.

Back in the original 3rd edition Ork codex the authors practically went out of their way to make the Magus writing about Ork technology sound like an idiot who was out of his depth.

I prefer to think of Ork technology being idiosyncratic, designed completely without regard to user safety or comfort, and integrated. By 'integrated' I mean each component has several functions, like structural support, power transfer, and data storage all in one. Human technology, intended to be relatively user-friendly, compartmentalized (one component per function, lots of redundancy), and standardized would be entirely alien to the Orkish mindset.

So trying to analyze Ork technology according to human standards of engineering and design, particularly if those standards are religiously mandated, would tend to yield the conclusion that "this junk doesn't even work!" Conversely, for an Ork mekboy, human technology is a tinker-toy just begging to be improved.

sniperjolly wrote:How about how IG combat knives/bayonettes can pierce terminator armour?

Poke em in da eye!

Mekboyz are super geniuses. They inherently understand concepts it takes a human half a lifetime to grasp from the day they are spawned. To them, a machine gun is a child's plaything. Something they can get the grotz to knock out in a lazy afternoon. A force field, now that's a challenge. A tellyporta, a bionic leg that functions as a rocket booster, or an effin' great klaw, there's where they find their fun.

I see a lot of people speaking about orks as if they are dumb online. If you read the background, this is simply not true. They are portrayed as dumb, sure, but they ain't. Simple and direct isn't dumb, it's simple and direct.
That dichotomy is what makes orks one of the most interesting armies from a fluff perspective.

In the last codex this one human doc states that there is no evidence of orks being dumb just a diffrent problem solving style and a more direct approch to problems.

Another thing people need to keep in mind is that it's not like every 6th time a guardsmen stabs a terminator, the bayonet slides through the breastplate like it's butter, he just finds a groin joint or an optics scope

same with choppas; the ork may not break through a marine's armour, but if he knocks him on his ass and smashes his face with the choppa a dozen times, power armour or not he's going down.

groin joint

You'd think they'd have fixed that by now.



Sub-thought: Codpieces - why assault termies have a 3++ ?

lol look at a marine fig, the're pretty poorly armoured around the elbows, knees, groin, and neck.

I agree: 3++ codpiece ftw.

"we see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude, who are we to judge? The eldar who have failed or the humans who are already treading the path to their own destruction." some farseer

Just thought it relavent

sniperjolly wrote:
How about how IG combat knives/bayonettes can pierce terminator armour?

Terminator armour isn't perfect, nothing made by humans will ever be perfect, even if Terminator armour is 99.999% secure, there's still that teeny tiny flaw that will get the user killed, like a peice of webbing on a joint which is *just* too thin.

and with the Ork guns thing, Orks do have a latenet psychic ability, but think of it more and blind faith, most Ork guns are useless and will explode in your hands should you try to use it, but have you ever gotten into your car, tried the ignition about 20 times, none of which caught? then you think "C'mon, please work i know you can do it, i have faith in you" and then the engine starts first try. think of that for Ork weaponry, it's just wanting the piece of gak to work.

anyway.... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!! ORKS IS ORKS!! ORKS'LL CRUMP YA!! WAAAAAAAAGH!!!