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Sooo do Eldar actually view Humans as vermin that they'll kill for sport? Or do they only kill if it serves a purpose?

I imagine they'd kill humans on a Maiden World... but say Eldar are on an Imperial World to seek some artefact or w/e, they chew through the PDF... if there are women and children cowering in houses or something; would the Eldar kill them out of spite?

I personally view the Eldar as a threat to the Imperium who SHOULD be exterminated as you cannot trust them: If you try to align with the Eldar; one of their farseers will inevitably get some vision of the two of you fighting... then attack you as a preemptive strike; and voila, the war she predicted starts by HER hand

Too unpredictable... they hide their intents and that makes them dangerous; especially considering their battlecry of "YOU ARE INFERIOR!".

Yeah they will usually only kill if it would be a benefit at some point. Kind of like what happened at Armageddon. Eldrad saw one of the Ork Clans on a nearby planet rising up and attacking his craftworld. So he made the other clan win, they then went on to attack Armageddon. As for the Alignment thing, Eldar don't really team up with the Imperium, when they do it's just to use them as a tool and they will probably kill the Imperial force they seemed to be working with. They're opportunists, what ever helps them most at the time is what they'll go with. This does include the effects of those actions in the future as well.

But, you can definitely tell they think Humans are inferior by calling them Mon Kieghs.

One of the big cruxes of the whole Eldar concept currently is that they don't do anything without need. The only caveat is, that considering the abilities of their Farseers, it might be quite hard for someone to tell what that need was.

For instance an Eldar might come and kill a cowering woman because the Farseers have seen that she will give birth to a son who will become an Inquisitor Lord that will use an Exterminus weapon on the Craftworld or somesuch. Perfectly reasonable and logical for the Eldar to blast her now to prevent the trouble with the son.

But to The Imperium it's just those Eldar being needless human killing dicks again.

Henners91 wrote:Sooo do Eldar actually view Humans as vermin that they'll kill for sport? Or do they only kill if it serves a purpose?

I imagine they'd kill humans on a Maiden World... but say Eldar are on an Imperial World to seek some artefact or w/e, they chew through the PDF... if there are women and children cowering in houses or something; would the Eldar kill them out of spite?

Yes. When in battle, the spirit of their god of war makes them bloodthirsty and psychotic. They are quite liable to kill anything except another Eldar.

Henners91 wrote:I personally view the Eldar as a threat to the Imperium who SHOULD be exterminated as you cannot trust them: If you try to align with the Eldar; one of their farseers will inevitably get some vision of the two of you fighting... then attack you as a preemptive strike; and voila, the war she predicted starts by HER hand

Too unpredictable... they hide their intents and that makes them dangerous; especially considering their battlecry of "YOU ARE INFERIOR!".

Exactly. Not only are the current Eldar a race of foul xenos that must be exterminated, but they are also the cause of many of the current woes of the Imperium. They used to have everything: the ability to move planets on a whim, no need for work, no threat to their power. And they somehow managed to get so thoroughly evil that their evil came to life as a god and created an enormous interdimensional portal to hell, through which the traitor Space Marines would escape after Horus's defeat. Had that portal not existed, the traitors would have had nowhere to hide and been annihilated. Also, the Chaos gods would be short 1 member.

n0t_u wrote:But, you can definitely tell they think Humans are inferior by calling them Mon Kieghs.

Well, kind of... Mon Kiegh is the eldar word for any race that's not eldar or hasn't proven it's worth to the eldar as a whole. It's onomatopoeia for monkey obviously, but if we think about the context of the word from the eldar perspective, it's not far from the truth.

Eldar are psychically and mentally higher on the evolutionary scale to humans as humans are to chimps. Sure, chimps a bright creatures full of personality that can use tools and have a vibrant range of emotions as well as a highly developed culture. Yes, culture. Despite that, a group of chimps will gluttonously consume a week's worth of food as fast as they can eat it, even if no other food source is present because they lack the foresight and mental faculties that a human has. As humans, we see and understand the need to preserve the chimp's environment even if the chimp's actions drive others to destroy it and them.

This view can easily be extended to the Eldar and their perception of humanity - that humans are an aggressive animal that spreads across the galaxy with little regard to it's own safety, let alone that of other races. One that needs to be guided, protected, and occassionally destroyed in order to keep it from throwing the natural balance of the galaxy out of whack. They do the same thing to all the races - it's what they were MADE to do.

Eldars will never kill anything without a reason .
like n0t_u said , the farseers can see into the future , hence they might attack you now when it doesnt make sense to the mon keighs.

Sigh doesnt that sort of justify the usage of the term monkeighs? none eldars are always clueless ( which is true by how Imperium Inquisition deals with things ,
better safe then sorry, "purge them all" attitude )

So who is the dumb barbaric ones now :3

Except for Usarker Creed, he used his tactical genius and defeated an eldar attack group (ulthwe IIRC) and I don't believe that eldar plan ahead to lose eldar lives.

Its like some eldar will attack if there is a future event that can be changed by doing so, or if they're eldar corsairs, then it just doesn't really matter.

Anywho, purge the xenos, kill the xeno, maim the heretic, and burn the eldar skittle brigade.

I don't think eldar would go out of thier way to sluaghter humans simply out of spite. This is not out of any pity, or 'what's the point?' type attidude, but more from them trying to avoid ANY eldar casualties.

Some Craftworlds (and Corsairs) would only kill when it serves thier purpose. (Indeed, there was a tale of a compassionate Corsair captain who spared the humans on a maiden world after they surrendered. He had them shipped to a nearby habitable moon)

On the other hand, some rasher craftworlds (such as Saim-Hann or Biel-Tan) have nothing but hate for the human race, and would kill any and all that they encounter. (This would also include the cleansing of Maiden Worlds)

The Eldar paths need to avoid falling into Slaaneshi "excess" at all times, especially the martial ones. Killing people for pleasure probably isn't a good idea in that respect. Even if they don't care about humans, that kind of thing can reflect badly on them.

What ever humans can feel, Eldar can feel many hundreds of times stronger.

Humans can feel compassion and remorse.

Transitively, Eldar can feel compassion and remorse many hundreds of times stronger than humans can.

So you're not likely to see a sane eldar go on a murdering spree. There are exceptions. (See Biel-Tan, Dark Eldar.)

But considering they also feel self worth and pride many hundreds of times stronger than humans, you bet if it comes down to a question of you or them, they would end you before you even finished your sentence.

IF Eldar invaded a human world, yes. . . . they will generally kill most if not all of the humans on the planet, after all they are xenos, only the emperor understands why they do what they do

Huffy wrote:IF Eldar invaded a human world, yes. . . . they will generally kill most if not all of the humans on the planet, after all they are xenos, only the emperor understands why they do what they do

*facepalm*

@Falconlance: Agreed.

@Huffy: There's always a why. Human genocide is just ONE of the many possible reasons Eldar attack a planet.

Sorry, about the earlier post, but I don't think that eldar would let humans live if only for the fact that humans are worth nothing to them, and the few times that humans and eldar interact would most likely be while at war, so I'm guessing the eldar aren't going to be to nice to the families of the people who were just trying to kill them
(just curious, but wouldn't the normal citizens try to kill the eldar they saw, with all of the the "purge the unclean" going around)

Well, probably, unless love can bloom.

@falcon: So the Eldar say...and even if they do feel 'compassion and remorse' as you say, they only feel it for other Eldar.

Eldar are elves. Space elves. Elves are racists. Plain and simple. And is that a racist statement? Yes. If I lived in the 40k universe, knowing everything I know as a player, the Imperial propaganda would be unneccessary. I would hate, fear, and revile the aliens without any attempts to sway my opinions. The aliens do it pretty well on their own. (Except the Tau. They can live. For a while. But even that would come to a head eventually)

To the OP: If there is no need that the Eldar can see, I dont think that your average Eldar will kill a human, no. There are exceptions, obviously. There are a few groups who see us as a threat, and consider an Eldar-human war to be already a permanent state of affairs. They would kill us for sport. Dark Eldar, prolly not. They would just drag us back to whatever hell they call home and do things that only an Eldar's "infinitely superior brain" could come up with.

The Eldar are evil. Very very very evil. As referenced earlier in this thread, they are so evil that their evil manifested itself as a friggin God! It tore a hole through reality. That is the extent of their evil. And did the survivors back off and go 'Whoa, we better get on the straight and narrow.' ? No, they did not. They stepped back and said 'Okay everybody, let's try and all be a little less evil than that in the future.' These are not our friends or people who might be our allies. They are dangerous, malignant forces who threaten the very existence of our species. The only upshot is that they are already dying. The humans at least have the option of stepping back and only fighting them when they pick the fight. The other forces in the galaxy will finish them off for us.

@falcon: So the Eldar say...

So Codex: Eldar says, you mean.

even if they do feel 'compassion and remorse' as you say, they only feel it for other Eldar.

Well I cant personally provide a solid counter argument, since I haven't read much, but there was a post earlier in the thread about Eldar relocating and releasing human PoW's. What I have read about, are Eldar attempts at diplomacy with the Imperium, resulting in their messengers being killed, and the soulstones the messengers carried being stolen and used as jewelry by the planetary governer. When the Eldar demanded the stones back, he refused. So they broke in, f*cked his sh*t up, took the stones back by force, and gave him to the harlequins, who in turn brought him to the dark eldar to be tortured for eternity.

The Eldar are evil. Very very very evil.

This is impossible to refute, as I don't believe in good or evil as morals, because they are relative. Good is what benefits you, evil is what detriments you. I think I said it in another post but I'll say it again. In this world, there is no "good" or "evil," there is only "us and our people" versus "them and their people." And anyone who isn't "us and our people" is "the bad guy."

Falconlance wrote:This is impossible to refute, as I don't believe in good or evil as morals, because they are relative. Good is what benefits you, evil is what detriments you. I think I said it in another post but I'll say it again. In this world, there is no "good" or "evil," there is only "us and our people" versus "them and their people." And anyone who isn't "us and our people" is "the bad guy."

According to Kohlberg's theory, that is level two mentality. Not very mature of you.

If you take out a gun and shoot someone for no reason, is that good or bad?

Exarch_Nektel wrote:

Falconlance wrote:This is impossible to refute, as I don't believe in good or evil as morals, because they are relative. Good is what benefits you, evil is what detriments you. I think I said it in another post but I'll say it again. In this world, there is no "good" or "evil," there is only "us and our people" versus "them and their people." And anyone who isn't "us and our people" is "the bad guy."

According to Kohlberg's theory, that is level two mentality. Not very mature of you.

If you take out a gun and shoot someone for no reason, is that good or bad?

Did I benefit from shooting him? Or am I now going to jail or otherwise traumatized?


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Additionally, is he "our people" or "their people?"

You're the one fabricating the scenario to fit your opinion, I'll answer to the best of my ability.

Eldar would only kill if there was some benefit to it. E.g slaughtering an entire city to preserve a handful of eldar lives. They wouldnt hunt for sport as that would endager the eldar who are are actually hunting.

The op's big point was "without a reason"

I think the only eldar that kill 'without a reason' would be the dark eldar (or maybe some Exodite pirates or something idk) but if the eldar do kill a person, they might have a reason for it, but would it be a good reason? Few HUMANS kill something with NO reason...there's always some kind of reason, even if it doesn't make any sense to sane people. (Like that Dawn of War moment someone posted a while back)

As far as my understanding of psychology goes, (which is limited, to use a nice word) The only people who ever kill something for no reason are sociopaths, psychopaths, mentally insane etc. So do eldar suffer from these kind of disorders? Can an eldar be a socipath? or do you just call them "dark eldar"? Do they feel their insanity 100 times more than an insane human?

If they can have this kind of thing going on I'm gonna say yes, eldar could possibly kill humans for no reason at all. otherwise probably no.

Than again, as I love contradicting myself, people who are criminally insane usually have some sort of delusion that they feel gives them justifcation or a "reason" to kill people, for what the rest of us deem as no reason at all. So maybe either way they have a "reason" albeit, not a good or sane one.

Eldar will certainly kill without particular reason if it's easy. Hell, Biel Tan actively goes out to war on severe xenophobic streaks on a whim when they get bored. they certainly don't see humans as anything better than a low animal to be slaughtered.

I think that, in the heat of the moment, an Eldar will kill ANYTHING unless it's another Eldar, as they feel rage a thousand times more than we do.

But, if not in the middle of a battle, all they would do is heap scorn.

Unless you're from Saim Hann or Biel-Tan

Norwulf wrote: Can an eldar be a socipath? or do you just call them "dark eldar"? Do they feel their insanity 100 times more than an insane human?

I think insane is strictly a state of being and not an emotion.
THATS RIGHT! I totally forgot, in codex: Eldar they talk about the fall. Apparently before Slaanesh was born, the Eldar's ability to experience sensation to such an extent that they do, caused almost the entire race to go batsh!t insane and start murdering and raping each other. So yes, apparently, they can, and have. And when they did, they slaughtered each other, not the humans. (though im not sure homo sapien even existed at this point in history)

Also, if memory serves, the dark eldar kill and torture to appease Slaanesh so he-she doesn't devour their souls. So they don't quite kill for no reason... but they probably kill a lot more than they need to.


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Cryonicleech wrote:I think that, in the heat of the moment, an Eldar will kill ANYTHING unless it's another Eldar, as they feel rage a thousand times more than we do.

But, if not in the middle of a battle, all they would do is heap scorn.

Unless you're from Saim Hann or Biel-Tan

They're like crazy cousins from back east. Craftworld Iyanden is currently at peace with the Imperium, and have allowed a few inquisitors on board. (Sounds crazy, I know... but its in the 5th ed rulebook.)

Exactly.

In fact, don't Harlequins allow a select few Inquisitors into the Black Library?

Cryonicleech wrote:Exactly.

In fact, don't Harlequins allow a select few Inquisitors into the Black Library?

Only one that I know of. Inqusitor Czevak.

Apparently hes been a little... off.. ever since.

I believe they do IIRC. The eldar are complicated, metally, politically, and socially. So it would make sense to me that some kill people indesciminately and others are peaceful with the imperium.

What I think the OP meant by 'No reason' is more along the lines of 'would they kill humans for simply being humans, or would there have to be some sort of goal or mission behind it?'.

The answer would be different between each craftworld. For tricksy craftworlds like Ulthwe or Iyanden (that can't afford to go apesh!t crazy), then no. They would only involve themselves in a conflict if they would directly gain something from it. As for Craftworlds like Biel-Tan they most certainly would luanch xeno-cidal programs against humans simply becuase the are human.


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That is the main reason why eldar are seen as fickle and untrustworthy. Not becuase the have some uber-plan (except mabye Eldrad, that DICK), but becuase they aren't at all organised.

There would always be a reason, it's just that sometimes, you would not be able to comprehend the reasoning behind it. The eldar are seen as a capricious race, fickle and untrustworthy. This was a race, that prior to the fall, did not know "true" death (eldar souls used to reincarnate into the next generation, and in this way, there was no limit to what they could achieve.)

Aspect warriors do not feel whilst in their armour and on the battlefield. Part of the rites they undergo to prepare for battle has to do with the donning of masks and the disassociation that goes with it. So no hate on the battlefield as such.
In one piece of fluff (RT, but 2nd ed used it and so did 3rd, so it's not retconned yet) - Macthen removed his mask after the battle and only then did the sights, sounds and other experiences have any effect on his psyche - he broke down and wept.