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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Wishing I was back at the South Atlantic, closer to ice than the sun

So I was at 40K Heat 2 last weekend, and I didn't do very well. In my opinion due to atrocious bad luck (as well as 1.no practice games, 2. a poor army list 3. Tau). Including loosing to an opponent who didn't even turn up to play his game!

But some of the things I did notice. Two players who refused to play each other, and claimed to be on the same team to avoid doing so. They weren't and got docked 40 points. A player who got docked 10 points for arguing every rules question. Several warnings to players for cheating in general, and an entire team using loaded scatter dice. (Verified by eavedropping on a conversation between the referees)

Guys, why is this so important to some people that they are prepared to ditch their moral ethics?

It's just a game, it's not life or death.

Cheers

Andrew

I don't care what the flag says, I'm SCOTTISH!!!

Best definition of the word Battleship?
Mr Nobody wrote:
Does a canoe with a machine gun count?
 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





Sheffield, England

You're assuming they have the same moral ethics as you.

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Made in us
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch





Pat that askala, O-H-I hate this stupid state

OMG if i dont win my little plastic men will blow up! That is the only reason anyone would cheat otherwise they are just a horses arse. Like said before not everyone has the same moral ethics as everyone else. Some people cheat and dont see it as cheating just an advantage over other players.

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, its just a freight train coming your way!
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Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker




Fenton Michigan

Cheating is usually used to those who cannot win by normal means. I play the game for fun, of course I like to win, but if I create my list and get to play it I'm happy. But some arse hats sure do want to rub their stained cheatin undies in everyones face!

This is good.... isn't it?
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Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer






This is the same with any game played by more than one person. In video games it's hacking and it is entirely the realm of the sad genuine losers!

   
Made in us
Crazy Marauder Horseman





Wait, the guys using loaded scatter dice were just warned? Am I reading that right?

   
Made in us
Flashy Flashgitz






Um. Morals are different from ethics. "Moral ethics" are a totally different thing entirely.

Morals are emotion-driven. Ethics are logic-driven. Either way, there's no universal code of either one.

That out of the way, cheating is stupid.

- Frosty Hardtop - - 4000 points - - 1000 points and rising.
"Live a good life. If there are gods, and they are just, they will judge you based not on how devout you are, but by the virtues you've lived by. If they are unjust, then you should not worship them. If there are no gods, you will have lived a noble life that your loved ones will remember." 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





And how do you lose to a guy who doesn't even show?

Some people just want to win. They don't care how it comes about, just at the end of the day they win. Ascribe whatever motivations you please but whatever the cause at the end of the day they simply cannot stomach the idea they might not win and therefore take any steps possible to ensure they don't.


mattyrm wrote: I will bro fist a toilet cleaner.
I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Wishing I was back at the South Atlantic, closer to ice than the sun

I think it was a mistake on my behalf when completing the results slip.

I had a replacement game against someone on the top quarter and I completed the slip on that game rather than on my original opponent (Which should have been a win as a result of the no-show)

My bad, but I'll be wiser for it.

Never mind, the only person in heat 2 to lose all 6 games......

As far as I know the offending dice were confiscated but the players were not disqualified.

Andrew

I don't care what the flag says, I'm SCOTTISH!!!

Best definition of the word Battleship?
Mr Nobody wrote:
Does a canoe with a machine gun count?
 
   
Made in gb
Drone without a Controller




UK. To The East.

This is a Hobby and Hobby's are meant to be fun rather than the case you put before us. I don't see what the point is. Hopefully you'll get a better time next time.


Cease



Jon Touchdown wrote:Just say "Well at Least It's Not Porn"
 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





AndrewC wrote:As far as I know the offending dice were confiscated but the players were not disqualified.

They should have been tossed out right then and there.


mattyrm wrote: I will bro fist a toilet cleaner.
I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret.
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

"Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat. "
Jesse Ventura

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

I think the important thing here is that if you think someone is cheating, for the love of God call them on it on the spot.

I switched from playing Tau to Orks for a while, and apparently went through almost 6 months of gaming (cheating the whole time) because I didn't know ork trukks (fast, open-topped) couldn't move 12" and still have passengers shooting. No one ever called me on it the whole time either. I came up against a player in 'Ard Boyz and it caused serious issues because he didn't believe I wouldn't know my own army well enough to know that.

Was I cheating? Yes. Intentionally? No.

Loaded dice are an entirely different matter; that's a "banned from the tournament, expelled from the store for X weeks / months / permanently."

--------------

Emotionally, its a pretty simple explanation for why people cheat: They want to establish worth to their peers; they want the self-satisfying knowledge that other people should respect them because they beat them; and since no one else knows that they cheated (if they got away with it), the hoped for respect isn't diminished.


I can't really attribute cheating to wanting "prizes." Spending 6-8 hours in a room full of sweaty dudes, paying $5-10 for the privilege of doing so, and coming away with $40-50 maybe (this scales obviously) if you win isn't very good risk/reward. Even if you work minimum wage, you could have earned more at your job. Personally, I win pretty much every game of 40k I play (yeah yeah, big fish, little pond) - I need to win as much or more as anyone else because of my competitive nature, but for me...I need the self-satisfaction that I'm tactically superior (call me an elitist West Point grad / army officer) and can because of it...a lot of the conversations I've seen have people saying that real world tactics don't mean anything in 40k, so I feel like every game I play is an opportunity to demonstrate the superiority of the principles of warfare.

*shrugs*



   
Made in us
Boosting Space Marine Biker






Sidney (Home of Nothing), OH. USA

We caught a 'team' from out of town using loaded dice at a tourney years ago. The store manager actually called the cops and had them charged, I believe, with intent to defraud (it's been a LONGGGG time), based on the fact that there was some pretty good prize support, etc. They were all arrested and removed from the store. I'm not sure if the store followed through on it any of it or not, but I'm pretty sure the being almost 4 hours from home and having to call someone to make your bail because you were a putz, is bad enough. We never saw ANY of them again, and we used to go to lots of tourneys. It's really too bad that anyone would feel the need to do things such as this.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

J'santai Khan wrote:We caught a 'team' from out of town using loaded dice at a tourney years ago. The store manager actually called the cops and had them charged, I believe, with intent to defraud (it's been a LONGGGG time), based on the fact that there was some pretty good prize support, etc. They were all arrested and removed from the store. I'm not sure if the store followed through on it any of it or not, but I'm pretty sure the being almost 4 hours from home and having to call someone to make your bail because you were a putz, is bad enough. We never saw ANY of them again, and we used to go to lots of tourneys. It's really too bad that anyone would feel the need to do things such as this.


That's just awesome.

   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Interesting. With prizes up for grabs it could be classified that way.


mattyrm wrote: I will bro fist a toilet cleaner.
I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret.
 
   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller







You cheat to win, it's just not a good way to win. If you care that your little plastic men kill other plastic men enough to cheat, then you're strange.

If I have to deal with cheating then I carry on playing extra well. I love seeing people get pissy when they cheat to win, and then don't win.

Grimm

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

AndrewC wrote:Guys, why is this so important to some people that they are prepared to ditch their moral ethics?

It's just a game, it's not life or death.

I'm assuming there's money or prizes on the line.

Once the game has money involved, people will cheat.

   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






Cheating means that you don't have the skill to win like a normal person. Stuff like this is why, IMO, all tournaments should hand out standardized dice, included as part of the regstration cost.

Check out my blog at:http://ironchaosbrute.blogspot.com.

Vivano crudelis exitus.

Da Boss wrote:No no, Richard Dawkins arresting the Pope is inherently hilarious. It could only be funnier if when it happens, His Holiness exclaims "Rats, it's the Fuzz! Let's cheese it!" and a high speed Popemobile chase ensues.
 
   
Made in gb
Never-Miss Nightwing Pilot





In the Webway.

I can understand since some people cheat to win because they want to win really badly. I myself am a casual gamer and i usual play with my latest models rather than all my list being competetive.

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Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






I can understand since some people cheat to win because they want to win really badly.

Then practice.

Check out my blog at:http://ironchaosbrute.blogspot.com.

Vivano crudelis exitus.

Da Boss wrote:No no, Richard Dawkins arresting the Pope is inherently hilarious. It could only be funnier if when it happens, His Holiness exclaims "Rats, it's the Fuzz! Let's cheese it!" and a high speed Popemobile chase ensues.
 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





Yea, practice makes perfect in regards to cheating...doh!...
_+++++_________

There are 'other' ways to still 'cheat' without actually breaking any rules:
-Taking too long in timed tourneys...
-Practiced rolling.
-'Forgetting' about reserves.
-'Forgetting' morale/pinning checks.
-'Forgetting' about dangerous terrain through vehicle wrecks.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
Made in nz
Scuttling Genestealer




Thank God I've never had a problem with cheaters, but understand rules around my place is the problem.. fricken synapse and grey knights special rules. hurr

There is one guy who always rolls a 6 when he needs it, i call it roll the dice and it's always a 1 which is flipping funny.

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Made in gb
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Once I played a game against somone who reconed their ultra-marines dreadnought could re-build it's self, then he said it's because Ultramarines are the greatest army of all of the 40k range.

 
   
Made in gb
Preacher of the Emperor






Manchester, UK

I've only ever seen minor incidences of cheating; people sneaking an extra half inch movement because their model won't balance on the lip of a crater, measuring an assault whilst moving the models. All stuff that i happily let slide in a regular game (Because SoB always win ).

If i ever caught anyone using loaded dice, even in a regular store game, I'd be telling everyone else at the club what had happened! Judges may not throw people out for that, but I'm damn sure the regulars would do the job for them.


1500pts

Gwar! wrote:Debate it all you want, I just report what the rules actually say. It's up to others to tie their panties in a Knot. I stopped caring long ago.

 
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior





Doomstadt, Latveria

big_bloo wrote:Once I played a game against somone who reconed their ultra-marines dreadnought could re-build it's self, then he said it's because Ultramarines are the greatest army of all of the 40k range.





[Thumb - clinton_laughing.jpg]


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Made in us
Savage Minotaur




Chicago

Bill clinton, ftw, mate.

On the subject of cheaters, my girlfriend kicked a fellow (was about 21 or so, he came in the store drunk w/ loaded dice) in the balls after he roll'd like 20 6's in a row (LOL) on his shoota boyz shooting.

Funniest thing I've ever seen, though he broke one of her S.O.B another day, and then he was banned from the store D:

And that S.O.B, was her beautifully converted Cannoness D:

Offensive word removed. Do NOT use language like that on Dakka.

ta.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/12/02 10:37:33


 
   
Made in au
Lethal Lhamean






op Whynot?
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





JohnHwangDD wrote:Once the game has money involved, people will cheat.

Wrong. People will cheat period. There doesn't even need to be any recognition or prizes on the line. Some people will cheat at Rock/Paper/Scissors just because.

Ripister wrote:Thank God I've never had a problem with cheaters,

Then you just haven't caught them.


mattyrm wrote: I will bro fist a toilet cleaner.
I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret.
 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

Karon wrote:Bill clinton, ftw, mate.

On the subject of cheaters, my girlfriend kicked a fellow (was about 21 or so, he came in the store drunk w/ loaded dice) in the balls after he roll'd like 20 6's in a row (LOL) on his shoota boyz shooting.

Funniest thing I've ever seen, though he broke one of her S.O.B another day, and then he was banned from the store D:

And that S.O.B, was her beautifully converted Cannoness D:
No offence, but your girlfriend extraordinarily overreacted. She is just lucky she didn't get arrested for assault and battery.

On top of that, I really hope you didn't just associate black people and cheating with the use of an extremely dirty word.

To the OP, you have to understand the frailty of morals and the fact that some people just ignore them. Morals are arbitrary restrictions society collectively rules on, then hammers into the youth until it becomes second nature. People like me (misanthropes, thugs, gang-bangers) learn to ignore the "rules" for our own self-interests (however petty those may be). Why people cheat is easy: they want to win more than anything else. More important, and interesting, than why people cheat is why other people don't. For example, I do care about winning, but I care more about the story that unfolds on the table. Cheating compromises the story, so I don't.


EDITED to remove profanity

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/02 15:37:34


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