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Hello,
Going to give 40k a break and try to get into the whole WFB thing. I have decided to try my hand at WoC mainly cause I love the viking spinoff in the fluff and want to do a counts as army.

Now here is my roadblock... other then a couple of demo games (non of which had a WoC army on the field) I have no real experience or knowledge. I started a discussion thread and after 48 hours I have one reply. So im kind of fumbling around in the dark here without any lights to guide me.

Now haveing said that, I present unto you my first ever WFB army list. Oh im sure it sucks in many ways, but this is why im posting here. Hopefully I get some good feedback and can learn from it so I don't sink alot of money into it only to find out it sucks.

I prefer the hack and slash method/style of play and based this list around that train of thought.

HERO:
Exalted Hero
+ MOK
+ Add Hand Weapon
+ Rune Sword
+ Jugger Of Khorne

HERO:
Exalted Hero
+ MOK
+ Add Hand Weapon
+ Rune Sword
+ Jugger Of Khorne

CORE:
Chaos Warriors x15
+ Shields x15
+ MON
+ Musician
+ Standard Bearer

CORE:
Chaos Warriors x15
+ Shields x15
+ MON
+ Musician
+ Standard Bearer

CORE:
Chaos Marauders x20
+ Shields x20
+ Light Armour x20
+ MON
+ Musician
+ Standard Bearer

CORE:
Chaos Marauders x20
+ Shields x20
+ Light Armour x20
+ MON
+ Musician
+ Standard Bearer

SPECIAL:
Chaos Knights x6
+ MON
+ Musician
+ Standard Bearer

SPECIAL:
Chaos Knights x6
+ MON
+ Musician
+ Standard Bearer

RARE:
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth x1
+ Additional Hand Weapon

2233/2250

Army Setup:
I feel that MON will help protect my footslogging army from enemy missles while they close with the enemy. I also didn't go with any really high priced Lords cause I felt that they would hinder my army size from eating up 400+ points. (Is every army like this?!?) Even though a few of them sound like they would kick some major ass! So I went with a pair of more conservative Heros that I feel will still get the job done.

Deployment:
Rare in the middle to act as a anchor/fire sink. Left and right of him are my Warrior blocks. On the warrior flank is a Marauder block to cover them. On the far left and far right army flank is a Chaos Knight Block with a Hero attached.

[Knight/Hero]----[Marauder]----[Warrior]----[Shaggoth]----[Warrior]----[Marauder]----[Knight/Hero]

So thats it! Please feel free to leave me feedback on this, cause I need alot of it badly.

Thank you for your time and have a nice night.

Welcome to the square-based side of the hammer

First off on your list, you can't take duplicates of magic items (there are some limited exceptions, but), so only one jugger can have the runesword. Also, a mounted model can't use an additional hand weapon, AND a model with a magic weapon must use the magic one, so also can't use an ahw. So some wasted points there.

On the list itself, it's in fact extremely light on heroes, though that isn't a bad thing in my book. Fantasy, especially chaos, tends to go crazy with character spending, and I think it's good to try to keep it trim. What you're missing most is a BSB, especially with so many infantry blocks, and perhaps any sort of magic defense. Even a basic scroll caddy (sorc w/ 2 scrolls, level 1) would probably help you out as a new player, so you aren't just being taken advantage of in the magic phase.

Without adding too many models, here's a light revamp of your list:

H: Exalted - MoK, sword of might, collar of khorne, favor, shield, jugger = 230
H: Exalted - MoK, BSB, biting blade, bronze armor, shield, jugger = 225

C: 15 Warriors - MoN, full command, shields = 300
C: 15 Warriors - MoN, full command, shields = 300
C: 20 Marauders - MoN, full command, shields, light armor = 170
C: 20 Marauders - MoN, full command, shields, light armor = 170
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
C: 5 Warhounds = 30

S: 5 Knights - MoN, standard, musician = 260
S: 5 Knights - MoN, standard, musician = 260

R: Shaggoth - ahw = 275
-------
2250

Very little has changed, primarily adding in missing command options and some warhounds to give you some speedy utility troops, whose variety of uses will become apparent as you run them - baiting, diverting, sitting on fanatics, possibly eating war machines, blocking LoS for your frenzied juggers, etc. I also stapled a banner to Jugger #2 and gave him the brass armor for a smidge of extra protection. Jugger #1, your general, could keep his runesword but I decided to split it into a S6 sword and a bit of a ward, as well as a taste of magic res for him and his boys.

The rest of the list is a solid, nurgley battle line, and should make for an impressive sight at the least. The shaggy is probably the most unique choice, as shaggoths are of questionable value, but certainly groovy centerpiece models, and the ahw one isn't so terrible, especially if you hold him back for flanking units that get stuck on the block units. He'll most likely absorb a round or so of fire for your knights, as he's big and not nurgley, so pretty easy to hit.

Something to keep in mind about the knights + jugger units, the juggers frenzy means they have to charge, so essentially the knights are going to be baitable as well. Bad or good, but they're essentially not benefiting from frenzy (more attaks, ItP) but have the drawbacks since the juggers are along. MoN certainly isn't worthless though, so I'm not 100% saying swap for MoK ...

Anyway, it's quite a solid battleine, and smashing face is definitely the order of the day. Hopefully being magicked to hell isn't

- Salvage

Very Nice!

This post is already extremly helpful! (In pointing out things that upon further review I was like "how the hell did I miss that?" rofl)

Hmm, so in WFB this would be considered infantry heavy? Maybe im used to the 5th ED 40k infantry centric train of thought, cause I honestly felt that I was LACKING in infantry. In fact my 1st draft of this list had blocks of 20 warriors and 25 marauders and I still felt like I was going light. My train of thought here was that I needed larger numbers so that after 2 or 3 rounds of moveing into range I still had enough lads to beat face upon arrival.

I can see the crazy amount of spending that most would do. The average lad costs 400+, and to me that seems extremly high to pay for one person. (And I play with Abby in 40k ) Though, a few of them seem to be straight up one man armies that only other super heros could kill.

Magic is something I have to work on with this list. I know that it is completly lacking in both offence and defence magic wise, and that I should re-consider this.

Now haveing said all that, here are some questions:

1: Would it be worth to scrap my two heros and replace them with a lord of equal value that kicks way more ass? Im thinking of throwing in Valkia The Bloody and spending the leftover points elsewhere. Does she fit my viking spinoff fluff? No, but the viking guy sucks in my eyes when compared to even my basic heros.

2: Should I scrap the shaggoth and if so, what would you do with the points in its place? I would rather have something dependable then questionable.

3: What would you all do about my magic problem? To be honest im at a loss for what to do.

4: Should I retool the marauders and give them flails instead?

jp400 wrote:
Now having said all that, here are some questions:

1: Would it be worth to scrap my two heros and replace them with a lord of equal value that kicks way more ass? Im thinking of throwing in Valkia The Bloody and spending the leftover points elsewhere. Does she fit my viking spinoff fluff? No, but the viking guy sucks in my eyes when compared to even my basic heros.

2: Should I scrap the shaggoth and if so, what would you do with the points in its place? I would rather have something dependable then questionable.

3: What would you all do about my magic problem? To be honest im at a loss for what to do.

4: Should I retool the marauders and give them flails instead?

1. In general, no I'd say 2x jugger heroes are better than 1x jugger lord. Exalteds are such good deals that 2 kicks WAY more ass than 1 lord, generally speaking. However Valkia is really good, and offers some really unique modeling and gaming potential. And she's a BSB (ish, reroll anyway) to boot. So I'm going to add here to List 2.0 for now.

2. Ehhhh maybe yea, unless you really like the model or have something in mind. While he isn't dependable per se, I really like the chaos giant and think he adds a fun element to the list, sucks fire as easily as the shaggy (in most cases anyway), and is a bit cheaper. So I'm suggesting him for 2.0 too.

3. As a new player, I think going with a scroll caddy is fine, will see your army past the worst of a round of magic, until you can close and start dishing out the pain properly. Will toss him in 2.0 as well.

4. Personally, yes. Turtle marauders don't do it for me at this point, even nurgley ones. Flaily ones at least might add some CR to their own decent start, even if a couple more might die in the process. Also, going flails instead of shield + la shaves 40 points total. Dig it.

Here're those 4 things in 2.0:

L: Valkia = 410
H: Sorcerer - 2 scrolls = 135

C: 15 Warriors - MoN, full command, shields = 300
C: 15 Warriors - MoN, full command, shields = 300
C: 20 Marauders - MoN, full command, flails = 150
C: 20 Marauders - MoN, full command, flails = 150
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
C: 5 Warhounds = 30

S: 5 Knights - MoN, standard, musician = 260
S: 5 Knights - MoN, standard, musician = 260

R: Giant = 225
-------
2250

Is it better than the last? Ish, but it has things I like the models for more The issue now is that while Valkia is awesome, those knight units are no longer very scary - or rather, they are scary, but not OMG MY FACE as previously (but I have little experience with or against nurgle knights, with the WS and BS tweaks). Have you considered injecting more khorne into this combo? You could even go exactly down the middle, with 1 MoK and 1 MoN of warriors / marauders / knights. A neat concept, wonder how it would turn out ... IMO lots of frenzy works when you have LOTS of frenzy, here I'm wondering if 3 is enough - and whether you as a new player want to deal with 1/2+ of your army rampaging around somewhat out of your control Cool theme though for sure.

As to the infantry, 4 pretty salty infantry blocks seems like a lot to me because they're so slow moving @ only 4". Then again the enemy has to come to terms with the infantry wall closing in, after focusing on dropping the (hard to hit) knights and T5 W6 giant moving in a little faster. So I still think it's a working proposition.

- Salvage

Hmm...
Looking around the forums at other peoples army lists, I can't help but feel that my list is lacking in both numbers and hitting power.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/267860.page (and thats a 1500 pts list)
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/267712.page (2250 list)

Now is this cause Chaos is really stupid expensive or something when compared to other races? Or am I doing something wrong?... Im sure that my lack of 1st hand experience in WFB is what im running into here, but none the less I can't shake that feeling.

To put it one way: Yes. WoC is an elite army and will always be small (unless you go marauder horde, which I would actually love to run a Slaanesh version of, but I don't want to build or paint such an army, so never will). Chaos is also somewhat weaker compared to other armies, unless you really push their strengths: knights and magic. Insanely armored frenzied units I'd put a close third. The list I've been tooling around with here is going to be non-optimized because a) it has infantry, b) it doesn't have gobs of tzeenthian magic, c) it's themed to NOT have 3+ marks floating around, d) I'm the one fooling around with it. I'll admit that I gear my lists toward optimized versions of themes and aesthetics and models and so on that people post up - if you want a master-blaster list, you can do a quick google search and head over to Warseer, TWF, etc for the Internet Cookie Cutter of choice. And here's another tip to a 40ker looking at fantasy: the most competitive lists have an unfortunate tendency to look like 40k armies, with lots of movement, lots of shooting (magic included), some drunkenly uber-units, some ultra-characters, and special rules that push the bounds of the game. Chaos is not really any of these (unless going disc-heavy tizz magic), but it is tough, it is resilient, and it is pretty upfront and smashy. Classically chaos was also the army chosen most by newbies, but also one of the harder ones for a newbie to win with, given the limited phases and such. This isn't quite the case now, but it's still going to be small, limited in some phases (no shooting or magic in the one we've been working on) but good in others.

So I hope that rant was instructive

I've been giving the list here some more thought, and I think we can do a bit more competitive version that will give you more tools and help learn fantasy a smidge better - partially by having some teeth:

H: Exalted - MoK, sword of might, shield, jugger = 200
H: Exalted - MoN, BSB, collar of khorne, great weapon, shield = 189
H: Sorcerer - 2 scrolls = 135

C: 15 Warriors - MoN, full command, shields = 300
C: 15 Warriors - MoN, full command, shields = 300
C: 20 Marauders - MoN, full command, flails = 150
C: 5 Horsemen - MoN, musician, flails, light armor = 111
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
C: 5 Warhounds = 30

S: 5 Knights - MoN, banner of rage, standard, musician = 295
S: 5 Knights - MoN, warbanner, standard, musician = 285

R: Giant = 225
-------
2250

Perhaps it didn't gain as much toothiness as it could have, but it retains a lot from the previous list. Break it down?

JUGGER > IMO cheaper is better for these tanks, and @ 200 pts this guy is pretty solid. He rides with the rage knights, tears things apart and is your general.

BSB > The nurgle component of your HQ, this dude stomps with a warrior unit and holds down your infantry center. He has the option of going 4 S5 with a 2/6+ save, or 4 S7 with a 4/6+ save as the need arises, and the MoN should do nifty things to those silly WS4 guys who try to assassinate him.

SORC > Caddy it up. I'd probably put him with the BSB's unit, to bolster numbers and give him some serious bodyguards.

WARRIORS > Remain the same. Putting the warbanner on one of them is a thought, but I figure the nurgle knights will be able to deliver the CR a bit better.

MARAUDERS > Only one big unit now, and the other got chopped in quarter and mounted - now you too can enjoy some fast cavalry action, as well as the new plastic kit. I'm not a fan of MoN on these guys, because it's SO expensive, but if you have modeling or theme concerns so be it. For example, I'd rather have MoN on the giant than the horsemen, but kept the horsies similar to their infantry brethren.

WARHOUNDS > Yea.

KNIGHTS > One unit is now the eye-rolling, teeth-gnashing Nurgleknightswithbannerofrage, but the rest of the list I feel is unique enough to sustain such a faux pas This is one of those Obvious Combo units in the book, and hence should be pretty worthwhile. With the jugger in here these dudes are pretty drunk - but their frenzy means you'll also get to learn to deal with frenzied units that can be baited, etc. It's really not as bad as it seems, but may take some focusing to land them where you want. Things will die though, I promise. The other knights got the warbanner to help them out, as they don't have a frothing nutter nor 25 attaks (!) to back them up.

GIANT > He's still there, for big monster duties and random fun. MoN could be decent on him, and way fun to model. Rather than a giant I run a hellcannon in my list, but again it can be dicey and comes down to modeling and such in my mind, as far as Fun Rares go. 225 pts is a fairly big chunk, that you could put to other purposes if you'd rather - more infantry, some kind of hammer (chariot), a third unit of knights, maybe going with 2x level 2 nurgle sorcerers (though 4 levels of magic isn't much these days). The giant seems more interesting and entertaining to me, and his missile magnet ability you can use to keep your knights alive

Also, I'm pretty sure I'd swap the MoN from the horsemen to the giant. That costs an extra 10 pts, which I'd maybe get from dropping 1 warrior - his spot will always be filled by the BSB or sorcerer anyway.

So there's another balanced-yet-with-killing redux. That has even less models

- Salvage

Hmm...

After reading and thinking about it... how about this list?

L: Valkia The Bloody = 410
H: Exalted - MoK, sword of might, shield, jugger = 200
H: Sorcerer - MoT, 2 scrolls, level 2 = 190

C: 15 Warriors - full command, shields = 270
C: 15 Warriors - full command, shields = 270
C: 20 Marauders -full command, flails = 120
C: 5 Horsemen - musician, flails, light armor = 86
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
C: 5 Warhounds = 30

S: 7 Knights - MoN, banner of rage, standard, musician = 375

R: Giant - MoN = 265
OR
S: Chariot = 120
S: Chariot = 120
-------
2246(G)/2221(C,C)

Took some gear/upgrades away and shifted em around to units that I feel will be shot up the most and needed the extra protection. Dropped one unit of 5 nights, and added 2 to the other unit and used the points elsewhere and dropped one of the Exalted for points to use on the Lord.

Have an option that I need feedback on. Would you keep the MoN Giant, or take two basic Chariots in its place? Other then that how does this list look/stack up?

I have less Marks, so im weaker in that aspect... but because of the points I saved I was able to get more quality models into the list.

Frankly I'm glad you made the call to drop all that nurgle markage, it was really eating up a load of points. Of course the downside is that shooting will hurt more, and combat won't have the cool WS tinkering going on ... So maybe keep it on the warriors? Dunno myself, and those warrior blocks are small enough that the +2 points each might justify taking less ranged damage on the way in.

But ultimately I'm happy that Valkia is back, she does many cool things and you'll enjoy having an uber-lord around. On the sorcerer, does he really need MoT & level 2? It's quite unlikely he'll be getting much off, though I guess if you go up against another level 1 scroll caddy then you have a bit of advantage, and 55 points isn't too extravagant.

For the knights, 7 is quite a tank of a unit, and nice IF it's operating by itself. Except you're putting the jugger in there, making it 9 cav models wide, or most likely 6 + 3 in the back that just sop wounds. Dropping at least 1 knight wouldn't be terrible, and would give you the points to mark the warriors (well, drop 2 if you keep the giant around).

On the chariots, I personally would prefer double chariots to the giant, BUT until GeeDub finally makes a plastic chariot that isn't tiny and skeletal or pansy and elven, I know I at least run a lot more big things than dual carts. So: if you have a model in mind or can stomach the ancient-yet-$$ chaos chariot, or have plans to update it (which can work nicely but means multiple kits and time), I say chariots. Giant does very different things than chariots - terror, negating ranks when flanking, capable (with luck) of beating ANYthing - but chariots project a decent arc of aggression, which your infantry core will appreciate. Both draw fire like mad too, and be wary of S7 which auto-kill chariots.

- Salvage

After some more deep thought after the comments made.... here is another version:

L: Valkia The Bloody = 410
H: Exalted - MoK, sword of might, shield, jugger = 200
H: Sorcerer -2 scrolls, level 2 = 170

C: 15 Warriors - full command, shields = 270
C: 15 Warriors - full command, shields = 270
C: 20 Marauders -full command, flails = 120
C: 5 Horsemen - musician, flails, light armor = 86
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
C: 5 Warhounds = 30

S: 5 Knights - MoN, banner of rage, standard, musician = 295
S: Chariot = 120
S: Chariot = 120
-------
2121 of 2250 = 129 pts left over


So now I like where the list is currently sitting, however I can't decide what to do with the extra 129 points that I have left over. Here are some of the thoughts/ideas floating around my head.

* MoN up the Chariots and Warrior squads. (120 pts)
* Add 1 more Chariot (120 pts)
* Drop the 5 horsemen (+86 pts), Add a Hellcannon for a very little amount of ranged attack, and gaks and giggles. (205 pts)
* MoN Warriors (60 pts) then spend the rest increaseing the Horsemen squad by 4. (64 pts)

Feedback would be appreciated on the above. I would also like to ask what YOU would do with those points.

jp400 wrote:After some more deep thought after the comments made.... here is another version:

L: Valkia The Bloody = 410
H: Exalted - MoK, sword of might, shield, jugger = 200
H: Sorcerer -2 scrolls, level 2 = 170

C: 15 Warriors - full command, shields = 270
C: 15 Warriors - full command, shields = 270
C: 20 Marauders -full command, flails = 120
C: 5 Horsemen - musician, flails, light armor = 86
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
C: 5 Warhounds = 30

S: 5 Knights - MoN, banner of rage, standard, musician = 295
S: Chariot = 120
S: Chariot = 120
-------
2121 of 2250 = 129 pts left over


So now I like where the list is currently sitting, however I can't decide what to do with the extra 129 points that I have left over. Here are some of the thoughts/ideas floating around my head.

* MoN up the Chariots and Warrior squads. (120 pts)
* Add 1 more Chariot (120 pts)
* Drop the 5 horsemen (+86 pts), Add a Hellcannon for a very little amount of ranged attack, and gaks and giggles. (205 pts)
* MoN Warriors (60 pts) then spend the rest increaseing the Horsemen squad by 4. (64 pts)

Feedback would be appreciated on the above. I would also like to ask what YOU would do with those points.

MoK is nice on the Warriors since the biggest fear with them is having them shot up before they reach a target. In close combat, they are probably the strongest core block in the game. You can literally jar the tears of Dark Elf repeaters as they try to shoot MoK Warriors. 20-40 shots and maybe landing a wound with 2-3 then watching them have a 2+ save and laugh it off.

A war-shrine isn't a bad choice either. It is 150 but you could free up some points somewhere. The thing is pretty good on its own with To 6 and 3+ armor and 5+ ward. Not to mention 5 attacks. And the free gift it lets you roll each shooting phase.

You could also run a warshrine. The free roll each shooting face is nice, and if your running a melee hero like Valkia, you are obviously expecting a chance to kill enemy characters.


As for the entire concept. I feel like you lack a real punch. The warriors are good in general, but you haven't spent much to make any one of the blocks a real killing machine. And the one group of knights is easily outnumbered. The warhounds won't last long, and even the marauders are tough to keep alive short of 25 blocks. Your lack of magic also is a bit weak. 2 dispel scrolls will save you some, but you will really suffer against a high magic army, especially if they choose to go after your warrior blocks. Chaos has really strong magic and it can really help turn the tide.

MoK to prevent getting shot up? Do you mean MoN? Maybe im missing something here....

"As for the entire concept. I feel like you lack a real punch. The warriors are good in general, but you haven't spent much to make any one of the blocks a real killing machine. And the one group of knights is easily outnumbered. The warhounds won't last long, and even the marauders are tough to keep alive short of 25 blocks. Your lack of magic also is a bit weak. 2 dispel scrolls will save you some, but you will really suffer against a high magic army, especially if they choose to go after your warrior blocks. Chaos has really strong magic and it can really help turn the tide. "

So........what would you do different? The above is alot of information, but none of it is really helpful.

jp400 wrote:MoK to prevent getting shot up? Do you mean MoN? Maybe im missing something here....

"As for the entire concept. I feel like you lack a real punch. The warriors are good in general, but you haven't spent much to make any one of the blocks a real killing machine. And the one group of knights is easily outnumbered. The warhounds won't last long, and even the marauders are tough to keep alive short of 25 blocks. Your lack of magic also is a bit weak. 2 dispel scrolls will save you some, but you will really suffer against a high magic army, especially if they choose to go after your warrior blocks. Chaos has really strong magic and it can really help turn the tide. "

So........what would you do different? The above is alot of information, but none of it is really helpful.

Yeah sorry I meant Nurgle, just typo'd. MoT is also a better alternative as it is cheaper then Mon/MoK both and it gives a static 6+ ward save.


What I meant by lacking a punch is none of your units really have the ability to man-handle an enemy's key unit. Knights are strong with WS 5, Str 5, and 2 attacks + horse kicks, but will 90% of the time be faced with an enemy who outnumbers them and has some form of static res through ranks and banners. They are best used to smash weaker specials or inflict punishing flank attacks. The chariots are the same way, for 120 pts you get a resilient flanking unit, but one who lacks the ability to meet enemy threats head on and continue trucking. I highly recommend trading 1 chariot for a warshrine. They cost 150pts, mark it with MoT and it has a decent armor and ward save with To 6 and 4 wounds if i remember. The warshrine also has 5 attacks at S4, so is more then capable of holding it own or can be used to charge a flank just like a chariot (Minus the impact hits). A warshrine also lets you grant a free eye of the gods roll to a character or unit during your shooting phase.

Valkia is arguably a strong hero, I myself do not tend to run her, but she is definitely not a waste. However your magic is severely lacking, and chaos magic is strong. I am sure there are competitive lists which run very low magic, but they tend to have punishingly strong combat abilities which I just don't see in your list. What I suggest is retooling your 30 warriors to provide an almost unstoppable block which can chew through enemy ranks. First do not run groups of 15, chaos warriors are on 25mm bases meaning against regular rank and file 20mm 5 man ranks you can get 6 units in combat with diagonals. Run them in groups of 12 or 18, so you can get max attacks in while not having wasted points. IF you want to keep 30 total, break it down to 18 and 12. I would invest heavily in the 18 to turn them into a center piece for your line and what I like the call my "immortals". Then you can keep the 12 block more vanilla with just F/C and maybe a mark, then use them to hold enemies in place while you flank charge with knights/chariots.

"The immortals":

12-18 Chaos Warriors (6 wide in 2-3 ranks)
Mark of Tzeentch (Cheaper then MoN, and always effective)
Extra HW, Shields
Full Command
Banner of Rage
Exalted Hero / BSB / Blasted Banner and sophoric musk

Obviously if you take the Exalted Hero to run a BSB you only have to field 11 or 17 warriors. I like Tzeentch over MoN since the warriors WS 4 rarely puts them in a situation where an opponent's chance to hit is modified by - 1 WS. A person would have to be WS 8 before they change your chance to hit to 5+, and that is just rare. The -1 to hit from shooting isnt too shabby, but the banner + MoT give you a 2+ Armor Save and a 4+ ward save when being shot at. I usually just run 11 + hero, but even 17+hero gives you +2 res from banners and +2 for rank plus possibly outnumber on anything but core blocks of 20-25. That is 4-5 static combat res on a unit with Extra HW + frenzy which causes them to generate 4 warriors with 4 attacks, 1 champion with 5, and a Exalted hero with 5 or 6 (Dont have book in front of me atm). Not much is going to survive 21 S4 and 5 S5 attacks and be able to retaliate much. I like full command because the champ allows you to keep your BSB out of bad duels (such as VC player using skeleton champ and not vamp to duel or a wood elves player who has nettling or w/e). Note the hero cannot take magic items since he is BSB with magic banner, but he can take gifts of the gods. The musk requires an enemy to roll an extra D6 when fleeing, then discard the highest. Statistically this helps the warriors pursue and destroy enemy units when they flee.

For your marauder horsemen, consider MoK them if you are going to stick with just flails/LA. This gives them 10 attacks at S5 and horse kicks on the charge + makes them immune to psychology which is always great. At just over 100 pts it isnt a huge deal if they are baited around the map, and they are very effective at killing stuff like dark elf riders and other fast cav. Alternately you could give them throwing axes and MoS and use them to shoot and bait an enemy's frenzy units. Great for shooting up a witch elf block or if you roll well, running VC blood knights around.

I am not a big fan of warhounds, especially running 2 units of them. 30 points is a mark on one of your Warrior blocks, and the hounds will most likely die before even reaching the enemy's line. Warriors, chaos chariots, and knights are really hard to shoot down, and marauders are practically as cheap as the warhounds themselves and at least effective in combat.

WoC can be a large unit count army if you run alot of 25 blocks of marauders and steer away from high cost stuff like knights, but honestly WoC is at its strongest when you use all that is available to turn a unit into a killing machine. Marks are very strong and are paid for an overall unit, not per model. making it very effective on stuff like blocks of warriors. Chaos magic is also very strong with MoT sorcs dealing some serious pain and with a low cast magic missile and +1 to cast not to mention stuff like a mount sorc at 2+ armor saves and 5-6+ wards.

If any of this seems unclear let me know.

Wow.

Very clean and packed full of good information for this noob. I will process the information more in depth and post a new list here shortly. Thank you very much!