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ok i finally decided which army to go with, the orks.
But since im a new player, i thought it would be good to hear from more experienced 40k players about some of the good and bad things about orks, so help me out if you can

Ok me again!

As I said on your other post you should buy the codex [A book you need to play that army] then decide what kind of army my favorate is bad moonz da richest o' clanz, but theirs blood axes, da karky covered tactikal "geniuses", the snake bites, oo' like da old wayz o' livin, da evil sunz, da fastest orkz on wheelz, da deff sculz, lootaz an' dodgy salesmuns o' da orkz an' da Goffz da toughest orkz in 'istory.

Tactically the main way to go is whith plenty of boyz but you can do whatever you like, so war like an ork and remember buy whatever you like!, and just make sure you have plenty of boyz. Thats the only rule, plenty of boyz and one HQ


Edited In: Oh and mod, please move this topic to its proper place.

The orks that I play are Speed Freeks, so I have an excuse to have a couple of different clans in my warband. :3 If you have a sizeable waaagh, you can have several different clans in your army (might help you tell which unit is which) Though, if you don't have the codex yet, that should be your first buy. You'll get to know your army a little better.

Good thing about Orks: They rock at close combat, even shooty orks have 3 S4 attacks on the charge. They also have the Power Klaw (which is a power fist) but with Furious Charge its S9, the warboss' is S10! The PK, sadly, is about the only way for orks to deal with heavy armor. They also have a number of ways to get into close combat.

Bad thing about orks: They have few ways to deal with high AV, and their bog standard transport is AV10 and open topped which means every gun S4 and up can kill it. Another thing, orks need open toped vehicles so they can assault out of them....this makes them more likely to get blown away by lascannons and meltaguns.

To win with orks, you need superior numbers (and lots of dice) so you need to make sure all the boyz stay together and hit the same area of the board.

The good thing about orks: Orks can do anything that any other army can do and do it better. An ork assault army can put in more attacks than any other army. An ork mechanized army gets ridiculous. An ork shooty army can outshoot Tau or IG; Orks have a lot of terrifically powerful themes.

The bad: You can only do one of those things at a time. Orks are very, very good when you focus on a theme, but when you start mixing themes and unit types, and doing combined arms, and thinking like a generalist or a space marine player, you're gimping your ork army.

Dashofpepper wrote:The good thing about orks: Orks can do anything that any other army can do and do it better. An ork assault army can put in more attacks than any other army. An ork mechanized army gets ridiculous. An ork shooty army can outshoot Tau or IG; Orks have a lot of terrifically powerful themes.

The bad: You can only do one of those things at a time. Orks are very, very good when you focus on a theme, but when you start mixing themes and unit types, and doing combined arms, and thinking like a generalist or a space marine player, you're gimping your ork army.

QFT.

Orks can stomp you, shoot you, run around you, but not all at the same time. Think like an ork: single-minded, one battle plan, one united mass of green terror screaming down the battlefield. Orks would never diversify or come up with a Plan B. If Plan A fails, try it again until it works.

haha thanks alot guys
i headed in to a GW store today and won my first battle with orks, so im quite proud lol. Warboss kicks A**!

Good for you!! =

What kinda' army army are you gonna' get, like clan... and stuff?

zilegil wrote:Good for you!! =

What kinda' army army are you gonna' get, like clan... and stuff?

im going for the goff combat based army


Automatically Appended Next Post:
or maybe even death skullz, i havnt started painting my new boys yet, so i still have time to decide i just like the idea of looting my old sm tanks

No you don't. Never, ever, and I mean EVER use Looted Wagons. They are the worst item you can possibly take in the Ork Codex. Spend the pts on Kanz or something else, and spare your SM the horror.

JEB_Stuart wrote:No you don't. Never, ever, and I mean EVER use Looted Wagons. They are the worst item you can possibly take in the Ork Codex. Spend the pts on Kanz or something else, and spare your SM the horror.

lol yeah i only just found out that theyre pretty much a waste and not worth the effort, so im not going to bother now, the idea just seemd fun haha

Whoa whoa whoa there.

Nobody said don't loot something, just don't take it as a looted wagon. BW or trukk will do fine, for the same model.

The internet is full of ork conversions.

daBIGboss wrote:

JEB_Stuart wrote:No you don't. Never, ever, and I mean EVER use Looted Wagons. They are the worst item you can possibly take in the Ork Codex. Spend the pts on Kanz or something else, and spare your SM the horror.

lol yeah i only just found out that theyre pretty much a waste and not worth the effort, so im not going to bother now, the idea just seemd fun haha

Firslt welcome to the green tide, youll enjoy yourself here. Now if you want to play jsut a friendly fun game, use any unit you want. Hell Ive got a looted wagon and I use it in fun games. It either works really well, or is a HUGE laugh and does nothing. So dont get discouraged about a unit just because it isnt tournament worthy.
And good choice thinking of going goff style. Thats kind of what I do. I move all my boyz in trukks and just raid my opponent. Even just boyz in a trukk can bring 48 attacks on one unit on the charge. Thats just insane. If you roll decently, youll smoke a tactical squad, and it feels GOOD.
So good luck on your new army man!

What is the latest codex edition to purchase for Orks? 3rd? Seems it was released during 4e but does it still apply now that we are in 5th?

The newest Ork codex came out around the tail end of 4th edition.

Honestly, it's hard to screw up with Orks. Throw enough boyz at just about anything and it'll die. Just be sure to give all your boyz squads Nobz, and give all those Nobz Power Klaws and bosspoles. Aim that big ol' 30 Ork mob towards any target and you'll do just fine.

You should have a lot of shoota boyz in your army. While Ork BS isn't very good, they put down a wealth of fire that usually overwhelms the target. Just remember that almost every Ork unit is good at assault, so kit your shootas up with a power klaw nob and go to town!

Nobz are tough as nails, and a Warboss makes them Troops. Mount the boss and Nobz in a Battlewagon and roll over just about anything.

Orks are a really fun and customizable army. Just go nuts with em!

Well theres differing opinions on how to filed Orks. If your going horde, it makes more sense to make the slugga/choppa boyz, as your going to be running them pretty much every shooting phase. And since choppa boyz hit WAY more then shoota boyz in CC it makes more sense to do it that way. Hell Ive had, more then a few times, squads of boyz that never get to shoot, simply because they move and run, move and run, move WAAAAGH then charge. So no shooting lol.
But I agreed on everything else. Warbosses are some serious head stompin on their own, and Nobz, are easily the toughest units in 40k. Specially when you get good at wound allocation with them. Ive had a mob of 7 nobz, take turn after turn after turn of fire and still be strong enough to assault and wipe out their targets. And yes also ALWAYS give the nob in a boyz squad a PK and bosspole. ALWAYS! I know its suppose to be a rule and your choice - your army, but this is one of those youd be a fool not to do this one at least every time.

Dunno why everyone always has to hate on the looted wagons. They are better than trukks straight up if you need the transport and dont have the heavies to fill the slot anyway (or on lower point matches where other heavies are too expensive) and the boomgun can come in very handy vs other orks, VERY handy. As well as against tyranids, and ive had some pretty nice success fielding it vs necrons as well. Of course you dont use it vs tau, ig, marines or eldar, those races will pop it like a balloon.

KingCracker wrote:

daBIGboss wrote:

JEB_Stuart wrote:No you don't. Never, ever, and I mean EVER use Looted Wagons. They are the worst item you can possibly take in the Ork Codex. Spend the pts on Kanz or something else, and spare your SM the horror.

lol yeah i only just found out that theyre pretty much a waste and not worth the effort, so im not going to bother now, the idea just seemd fun haha

Firslt welcome to the green tide, youll enjoy yourself here. Now if you want to play jsut a friendly fun game, use any unit you want. Hell Ive got a looted wagon and I use it in fun games. It either works really well, or is a HUGE laugh and does nothing. So dont get discouraged about a unit just because it isnt tournament worthy.
And good choice thinking of going goff style. Thats kind of what I do. I move all my boyz in trukks and just raid my opponent. Even just boyz in a trukk can bring 48 attacks on one unit on the charge. Thats just insane. If you roll decently, youll smoke a tactical squad, and it feels GOOD.
So good luck on your new army man!

You're cool, wise and you have a point. I like this forum cus' the people have a good idea of what's what.
You don't even need to have PK and bosspole nobs, or even boyz, you could have an army of grechin! You won't win manny battles but it is a laugh! I like shokk attack gunz cus' there fun and dumb!
Imagine bringing a grot army to a comp, I know it costs a lot of money to get in but it would be worth it for the look on everyones face!lol

You need to be light hearted when playing orks, beacuse so many of their weapons and rules rely very heavily on luck, sometimes it doesn't go your way and you lose hard, you must be able to laugh it off and have a good time. They are also very easy to paint, beacuse orks themselves suck at painting, your vehicles don't need to be uber presise.

They cant shoot wort Feth, but get them up close and they can Destroy! (this is due in part to there large numbers i.e. an army with 3 mobz of 30 boyz each!) theres also the fact that you can pull off an ork army with only Power Armored Mega Nobz and Gahzgull Thraka as an HQ.(my buddy didi this once at the 'Ard boyz Prelims, and again at the semi-finals, he was supposed to go to the finals at the battle bunker but he had some things come up and couldn't go)

I just wrote some generalized tactical advice about list building in another thread and thought I would copy it here for you to read because its relevant about what to do with Orks.

I'm going to work off of a couple of assumptions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Playing Warhammer 40k is fun.
2. Playing Warhammer 40k and winning is more fun.
3. Playing Warhammer 40k and losing is less fun.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Human nature and natural selection demand that we continually seek to improve ourselves. Having an A type personality probably doesn't hurt this effort, but if you lose a game of 40k and don't reflect on the game with, "What did I do wrong? What could I have done better? How can I prevent this from happening again?" then I can't really talk to you.

If this thought process and those three assumptions *do* apply to you, then read on.

******
Orks are a unique codex. An ork boy is significantly cheaper than just about any other model in 40k, and is basically a platform from which many things spring (other kinds of ork variants - stormboyz, lootas, nobs...). If you read the fluff, every ork starts in the same place, and as they develop, they lean towards on klan/society, which is how they figure out what kind of ork they're going to be.

In other codexes (space marines and their variants being the most prolific), basic troops are well-rounded models. You ever play Final Fight? How about ANY kind of game with character selections? You've got the big, strong guy that's slow...the average Joe....and the weaker but very speedy character. This applies in 40k as well. Space marines are like your average, well-rounded Joe. Orks are NOT. You can't mix and match orks in any order you like to make a generalized list.

This is *not* called power building, its called understanding your codex, how your codex is designed, and using it as such. Every time someone calls "playing a theme" to be "powerbuilding" I want to stab them in the F***** eye. If you look in the Ork codex, do you see the codex writers putting in pictures for the sample armies of some Lootas backing up a squad of meganobs in a trukk, who are advancing next to some buggies and a deffkopta or two?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They even TELL you how to make your army. They tell you what the Ork klans are - Bad Moons, Kult of Speed, Deffskullz, etc.

That kind of thematic army construction is the intent of the Ork codex. That is what makes orks powerful. The ork codex is written so that you can design an army list that is absolutely ridiculously powerful, but it is NOT made up of average Joe units; everything is specialized towards a specific goal. When you build an army list, you should follow the thematic advice given to you in the Codex. PICK a theme. There's a lot of them:

Green Tide. Mechanized Assault. Mechanized Shooting. Ork Gunline (Moar Dakka), Kan-Wall. Dreadz of Fury. Kult of Speed. Outflanking Goodness. Rebel Grotz. Nob Bikers. Super Units. Orky Burnas.

All of those things have something in common - the lists were designed with a theme in mind, and have the synergy to work together towards that goal. When you start combining those themes to make a list, you're being counterintuitive to the very style that the orks were created for.

Remember this: Orks can do anything that any other army can do, and they can do it better than that army. However, orks can only do it one at a time. You can outshoot a Tau Gunline. You can out-assault a khorne army or an army of genestealers. You can put down more templates than IG....whatever your goal in mind is....orks can do it better, but it has to stick to that theme. Orks are not meant to be universal, middle-of-the-line armies.

To give another analogy...if you've ever played an MMO, there are different classes. Fighter, Tank, barbarian, mage, cleric, wizard, hunter, ranger, red mage, death knight, rogue, whatever.....its all based on the game you play. The class you pick sets you on a path for the kind of game you play, the skills you get - they are pre-defined roles.

40k armies fit into that kind of typification. Except for Orks. Orks would be the generic class. You start with a neutral character, with skillpoints to assign, and you can make orks any kind of army you want them to be. People fail with orks because they want some of everything. Instead of making them a fighter, or an archer, or a guardian...and they would be better fighters, archers and guardians than every other type...they split points between all three to make a Figardian. F.A.G for short.

Do you want to excel in something, or be a F.A.G? That's what it boils down to.

Are you a F.A.G?

Am I a burned out cigarette? No.





No I am not.

I don't know what what burned out cigarette you're talking about, but we're talking about a FighterArcherGuardian class or F.A.G in my example. Kind of like Film Actor's Guild, but not.

pr0t011187 wrote:They cant shoot wort Feth, but get them up close and they can Destroy! (this is due in part to there large numbers i.e. an army with 3 mobz of 30 boyz each!) theres also the fact that you can pull off an ork army with only Power Armored Mega Nobz and Gahzgull Thraka as an HQ.(my buddy didi this once at the 'Ard boyz Prelims, and again at the semi-finals, he was supposed to go to the finals at the battle bunker but he had some things come up and couldn't go)

Dashofpepper wrote:I don't know what what burned out cigarette you're talking about, but we're talking about a FighterArcherGuardian class or F.A.G in my example. Kind of like Film Actor's Guild, but not.

Proto - Your only partially right. A couple boyz on their own, shoot for gak. But you get 30 shoota boyz drawing down on one of your squads, and youll soon see how sucky 60 shoota shots really are

Pepper - Hes from another country man, thats what they call cigarettes outside the US, hell even we called them that once upon a time. But thats making me sound older then I am. And I found a grey hair in my beard this morning

Orks are a great army, but you want to spent hours and hours on painting....be my guest. Make sure that you buy a gun and save a bullet for yourself......orks are time comsuming and the amount that you have to put on the board is even worst. Overall they have their strengh and weakness i.e ( Grey Knights), plus they hate template weapons. Good luck and invest in a bottle of Wild Turkey....your going to need it. Death to the Orks

Dashofpepper wrote:I just wrote some generalized tactical advice about list building in another thread and thought I would copy it here for you to read because its relevant about what to do with Orks.

I'm going to work off of a couple of assumptions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Playing Warhammer 40k is fun.
2. Playing Warhammer 40k and winning is more fun.
3. Playing Warhammer 40k and losing is less fun.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Human nature and natural selection demand that we continually seek to improve ourselves. Having an A type personality probably doesn't hurt this effort, but if you lose a game of 40k and don't reflect on the game with, "What did I do wrong? What could I have done better? How can I prevent this from happening again?" then I can't really talk to you.

If this thought process and those three assumptions *do* apply to you, then read on.

******
Orks are a unique codex. An ork boy is significantly cheaper than just about any other model in 40k, and is basically a platform from which many things spring (other kinds of ork variants - stormboyz, lootas, nobs...). If you read the fluff, every ork starts in the same place, and as they develop, they lean towards on klan/society, which is how they figure out what kind of ork they're going to be.

In other codexes (space marines and their variants being the most prolific), basic troops are well-rounded models. You ever play Final Fight? How about ANY kind of game with character selections? You've got the big, strong guy that's slow...the average Joe....and the weaker but very speedy character. This applies in 40k as well. Space marines are like your average, well-rounded Joe. Orks are NOT. You can't mix and match orks in any order you like to make a generalized list.

This is *not* called power building, its called understanding your codex, how your codex is designed, and using it as such. Every time someone calls "playing a theme" to be "powerbuilding" I want to stab them in the F***** eye. If you look in the Ork codex, do you see the codex writers putting in pictures for the sample armies of some Lootas backing up a squad of meganobs in a trukk, who are advancing next to some buggies and a deffkopta or two?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They even TELL you how to make your army. They tell you what the Ork klans are - Bad Moons, Kult of Speed, Deffskullz, etc.

That kind of thematic army construction is the intent of the Ork codex. That is what makes orks powerful. The ork codex is written so that you can design an army list that is absolutely ridiculously powerful, but it is NOT made up of average Joe units; everything is specialized towards a specific goal. When you build an army list, you should follow the thematic advice given to you in the Codex. PICK a theme. There's a lot of them:

Green Tide. Mechanized Assault. Mechanized Shooting. Ork Gunline (Moar Dakka), Kan-Wall. Dreadz of Fury. Kult of Speed. Outflanking Goodness. Rebel Grotz. Nob Bikers. Super Units. Orky Burnas.

All of those things have something in common - the lists were designed with a theme in mind, and have the synergy to work together towards that goal. When you start combining those themes to make a list, you're being counterintuitive to the very style that the orks were created for.

Remember this: Orks can do anything that any other army can do, and they can do it better than that army. However, orks can only do it one at a time. You can outshoot a Tau Gunline. You can out-assault a khorne army or an army of genestealers. You can put down more templates than IG....whatever your goal in mind is....orks can do it better, but it has to stick to that theme. Orks are not meant to be universal, middle-of-the-line armies.

To give another analogy...if you've ever played an MMO, there are different classes. Fighter, Tank, barbarian, mage, cleric, wizard, hunter, ranger, red mage, death knight, rogue, whatever.....its all based on the game you play. The class you pick sets you on a path for the kind of game you play, the skills you get - they are pre-defined roles.

40k armies fit into that kind of typification. Except for Orks. Orks would be the generic class. You start with a neutral character, with skillpoints to assign, and you can make orks any kind of army you want them to be. People fail with orks because they want some of everything. Instead of making them a fighter, or an archer, or a guardian...and they would be better fighters, archers and guardians than every other type...they split points between all three to make a Figardian. F.A.G for short.

Do you want to excel in something, or be a F.A.G? That's what it boils down to.

Are you a F.A.G?

I think that is the most writing, I have ever seen on a post!

The least is,

---------------------------


O'


---------------------------




But yeah, I like this thread.

Are you going to give us an army list?

Are you making this army for a comp or tournament, or just for your hobby gaming store?
If so it does not matter what you get,
but it is for a comp, find a theme, play to it, if it does not work, tell us and try again.

If that's the most writing you've ever seen in a post, you must not frequent threads that I post in.

Well, first you should buy the codex, and possibly even AoBR, because it gives you a good sized ork starter army and a rulebook (not to mention a good sized space marine army for you to fight against). And figure out what you like.

The ork strategy is that there is no strategy. They charge forward en masse and will take some seemingly heavy losses, but once 'dey show up, 'dey tear up all dem humies like good boy should do.

I disagree with ZacktheChaosChild; the Ork stratagy that I could see working is the opening heavy hit followed by the mop up. Generaly what I see with IG (including myself), Tau and Eldar players is a tendancy to keep heavy hitting units that are of a high points and tactical value units out of harms way IOW at range. The Orks have the numbers and toughness to charge these high value targets in full force and destroy a Hammerhead\Lemun Russ group early on in a game effectivley stommping out a considerable fraction of the opponents forces in one strike. Do you know how frustrating it is to spend 1\4 of your points on one or two tanks and by the start of turn 3 have burning wrecks and a slightly dented ork army to deal with?

Also their troops are the only ones I would say are capable of reasonably killing a non-deamon HQ head on.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Well, first you should buy the codex, and possibly even AoBR, because it gives you a good sized ork starter army and a rulebook (not to mention a good sized space marine army for you to fight against). And figure out what you like.

The ork strategy is that there is no strategy. They charge forward en masse and will take some seemingly heavy losses, but once 'dey show up, 'dey tear up all dem humies like good boy should do.

Anytime someone says "all you have to do with orks, is charge" It makes me want to cry. Yes, in essence you want Orks in CC because that is where they shine. But there is alot more the Orks then just run, and prey you dont die.

KingCracker wrote:

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Well, first you should buy the codex, and possibly even AoBR, because it gives you a good sized ork starter army and a rulebook (not to mention a good sized space marine army for you to fight against). And figure out what you like.

The ork strategy is that there is no strategy. They charge forward en masse and will take some seemingly heavy losses, but once 'dey show up, 'dey tear up all dem humies like good boy should do.

Anytime someone says "all you have to do with orks, is charge" It makes me want to cry. Yes, in essence you want Orks in CC because that is where they shine. But there is alot more the Orks then just run, and prey you dont die.

QFT (the second one)

Orks are great in CC, and it is really easy to make an army list around that. A pretty effective one too. But they can do every thing that other races can (ok, most things) They compensate their utter lack of accuracy with huge quantity of shots. But ya, AOBR is really good set to pick up, I almost got two, then realised that my carrying case was full. I setled for one.