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If I had the cash, i would love to get a Chaos Biker squad for my Chaos army.
I did the math and the grand total comes out to 470pts
This includes:
1 Biker Champ with power fist
1 Biker with icon of nurgle
8 Bikers with ccw and bolt pistols shown so nobody can argue the "what you see is what you get" rule when it comes to confering the extra attack.
But is 470 too pricey?
I mean sure, they're going to have T6, but without power weopons, I fear that they won't have enough power close combat power.
Is it worth it?

Chaos Bikers generally aren't worth it. If you want fast units, Raptors or squads in Rhinos are much better choices.

meh, I say go for it. it would be unstoppable against anything except th/ss terminators, sm biker command squads, and nob squads.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Chaos Bikers generally aren't worth it. If you want fast units, Raptors or squads in Rhinos are much better choices.

Ya? That makes sense.
I bet some Berzerkers in a Rhino would get the job done for half the cost.
Thanks for the imput.
BTW Super funny signature; it's so true.

well yea, there are more effective units... but its not like this would be a bad choice. it should be able to still be effective.

Abbaddon will eat that up.

He's WAAAY more effective, and for less points.

Horst wrote:well yea, there are more effective units... but its not like this would be a bad choice. it should be able to still be effective.

Ya. I Hear ya.
I think I think it would chew Ork Boyz to peices. And I planned on throwing in a sorcerer with mark of slaneesh and lash of submission, to make sure that they could charge any unit they wish, but gawd, that would run at about 600 pts

I was thinking you were saying ANY biker squad, but it's Chaos bikers. Well, a kitted out command squad, or nob bikers, can cost about as much, so I'd say if you want to make the 40K version of a 'death star' go for it. It will crush anything that isn't dedicated assault troops, but if Chaos bikes can take a melta-gun I'd give it to them, so they can pop the inevitable rhino before charging the guys inside.

I know its not really fluffy, but throw in a khorne lord on bike with a bloodfeeder... risky as hell, but if your worried about a lack of killpower... hehe...

Meh.
For kicks roll with it...but Chaos Bikers w/ IoN have more than just cost as a problem.

Leadership is one of those problems... I feel Ld 10 just doesn't cut it for an uber unit.

I dont think it's worth it because a Demolisher with sponson plasmas and hull-mounted lascannon is only 220 points, thats 3 templates that ignore armor saves, and a laser that ignores armor saves. Or an Imperial Guard player could take a Valk and shoot a single Hellstrike missle for 100 points. Orks would chew that up with a mob of 30 boyz. Conscript squad of 50 would hold them in one spot for like... EVER. And a vet squad with 3 plasmaguns, given the First rank fire! Second rank fire! order would dent it pretty well.

@Cambak:

Well...they can turbo boost before they commit...which means they at least get a very nice cover save to mitigate that many templates.
But yea... shoot them enough and they die.

As for lasguns... it requires 36 lasgun shots to down one biker.
As for plasma guns...meh... most likely a 3+ cover saves and it only wounds on 3's helps a bit...and First rank Second rank doesn't help the plasma guns.

As for conscripts...they will most likely charge...so that's 30 attacks, 20 hits, 13 wounds, 8 kills.
Yes, they can hold them up, only if there is some way to make them stubborn (fearless would be a problem for them). Commisar/Commisar lord/stubborn aura, then yes to conscripts holding them... but bikers can most likely avoid them, unless they are conga lined...

In which case be careful...one can charge through gaps in a multi-charge.

As to the orc boyz... the no retreats will prob. kill orks fast.... the most damage it's getting is only from the fist in the unit.

Though it's not an ideal unit, bikers in general have their charm and rely on judging ranges for their offense and defense.
In addition they have ways to abuse their base dimensions..

But all of this is at a big price tag...prob. less economical than all the other bikers out there.

@Sanctjud
On the template thing.
I can always just upgrade to an Eradicator Nova Cannon, and remove those save which would be about 230-250 points (proxied ofcourse because they dont have molds for the cannon yet I think or atleast, forge world might).

As for lasguns. at max there are 9 in a squad. First Rank Fire! Second Rank fire! would give 27 shots at rapid fire range. deduct half of those from having to shoot, then about 3/5 of those from not hitting and you got about 5-9 wounds. After the armour/cover saves thats 2-3 wounds. Statistically. Now imagine an infintry heavy army with full platoons worth of firing Or hell! Storm trooper squad with that order at rapid fire range that is 9 guns shooting 27 S 3 AP 3 guns at 9 inches. 18 S 3 AP 3 shots at max range.

Isn't the Eradicator only Ap4?
Str 6?

So you are now wounding worse and they still have their power armor...

As for vets with lasguns.
27 shots = 18 hits = 3 wounds = 1 kill.

Stormtroopers:
First rank/second rank doesn't work on them.
So...lets say 20 shots = 13 hits = 2 wounds = 2/3 (due to cover saves).

You know these figures could be worse if he had a character in there as a damage sponge...

I'm not disagreeing with you that mass small arms can down them...when I mean mass, it's ALOT.
IG can bring it, but I'm not getting the vibe from you you really mean that kind of mass fire...if you are suggesting the other options in addition to that.

Though expensive, there WILL be other elements to the Chaos list that will have to be dealt with in addition to the Biker unit.

I feel what you want is to cause 3 ish wounds and psycher battle the squad with the Leadership reducing thing...easiest way to keep the away and doesn't require too much resources.

Okay we can always play the rock beats scissors game but the OP should really ask himself is going to see any of these rocks at his local shop? It's not a good means of analyzing the true effectiveness of a unit by simply comparing it with other units that specifically counter it.

Since it is a Chaos Space Marine biker squad I tend to say it's not worth the points. On the other hand a tooled out SM command squad mounted on bikes is definitely worth the points.

G

That is a ton of pts that you could better use by putting more CSM on the table.

I'll tell you something, I did something very similar to this when I started playing. I needed to cover a lot of points for a very low price. I had a 7 man lord+retinue nurgle biker squadron that ran about 750pts. It was actually pretty terrifying under the 3rd rules. I've tried using these same models in this edition, and it's not really great. It'll tarpit worse than like anything MEQ, but don't expect a whole lot of offense out of it for the points. A dedicated 7 man nurgle biker unit will look amazing, fill up a lot of points if you need to save cash...

But don't expect any miracles in this edition.

Actually, this might do some damage:
Chaos Lord w/ MoN, Demon Weapon, Bike, Melta bombs
Chaos Lord w/ MoN, Demon Weapon, Bike Melta bombs
5x Bikers w/ 2x melta, 1x powerfist champ

That's gotta be close to 500ish though, sorry no dex on me.

As said, there are more effective choices out there.
For 470 pts, you get two times seven PM's with two meltas each, mounted in Rhinos.

but are plague marines nearly as cool as bikers? no, they are not. I rest my case.

What you need to do is have a Chaos Lord with the mark of Slaanesh leading the biker squad.

Ka-ka-ka-ka-yeeah!

Sanctjud wrote:\\
I feel what you want is to cause 3 ish wounds and psycher battle the squad with the Leadership reducing thing...easiest way to keep the away and doesn't require too much resources.

the PBS, 9 Pskers, 1 overseer, Soulstorm would be str 9 and a 1/2 chance of it being ap 3 or lower and it's a assault 1 large blast.

Also, the the storm troopers have hotshot LASGUNS not Hell guns.

First rank fire! Second rank fire! says lasguns, as the hotshot lasgun is a stronger varient of the lasgun, I'd assume it would still take affect, because it has lasgun in its name.

As for the Eradicator, lets take a step back and instead it is a Executioner. That is is str 7 ap 3 Heavy 3 blast, then 2 more plasma cannon shots from the sponsons, the the lascannon shot. assuming you dont scatter to badly and hit with the lascannon, that would be a whole lot of 4+ cover saves to take, seeing and plasma cannons and lascannons are ap 2.

Or you could instead use a Medusa and fire its' Siege Cannon, 36" range str 10 ap 2 Ordnance 1, Large blast, or upgrade it to the Bastion breacher shells and get 48" str 10 ap 1 Heavy 1 blast*.

Another option is to blow a Deathstrike on it, of course you wont do that because there are still other threats like land raiders and termies.

There is also the Devil Dogs Melta cannon, range 24" str 8 ap 1 heavy 1, Melta, blast, does not provide cover saves. But hey, you might end up want to save that for land raiders or other tanks.

What I am saying is, there are plenty of ways to deal with them, but most of them you'd want to save for the big hitters, like Obliteraters, Terminators, land raiders, etc.

nope, a hotshot lasgun is not a lasgun, FRFSRF doesnt effect storm troopers unfortunately.

@Cambak:
You did not read that line you quoted properly.

I had said: cause 3ish wounds and (then) pycher battle squad the bikers with 'Reduce Resolve' I think...

Then they are leadership 2 and have to roll snake eyes to not runaway.

They fallback 3D6...then fly a Valk/Vendetta to escort them off the board.
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Hot shot lasguns: what Kill dem stunties said.
_________________________

Yea... so are Eradicators Ap4?
_________________________
Executioner: they are biker bases... so can abuse their lengths and be Really hard to get more than 2 guys under a template, then they should be turbo boosting for 3+ covers.

In addition there are better targets like Plague marines popped out of their rides.

Oh... And you are still getting AP wrong. The exectioner maincannon are Ap2 like the plasma cannons (if I recall, while the Eradicator is AP4).

_____________________-

Medusa has a minimum range, and again, the bikers should be spread out well enough and boosting.
In addition, they will have better targets. Bastion Breachers are really overdoing it vs. bikers.

Deathstrike: the bikers will be there at turn 2. So that’s a gamble relying on that and you are right that there are better targets…and I don’t recall too many people using the Deathstrike.

Devildog Meltacannon… ugh… again, spread out and boosting, if not boosting then spread out. Why does it not provide cover saves? What do you mean there? Just because it’s a blast weapon doesn’t mean it ignores cover… nor is it an indirect fire weapon…unless it has special rules to it, there is no need to mention that it “does not provide cover saves.”

True, there are ‘better’ targets.. and I’ve said it as well. But there is a threat to a T5/6 mass unit that is bearing down on you turn 2, with special weapons and are essentially combat units.
Meching up is good and all, but mutli-charges are a reality with a biker unit, so it’s not good to bunch up too tightly. Which can only play into a Chaos players hand if you spread out.

On the other hand, other than early pressure, the bikers are not points efficient. It’s not to say they can’t do their job, but they are a pretty penny and takes something away from the rest of the list.

I still think IoCG is a better investment though. T6 is nice and fun, but gimmicky as the weapons to kill them easily generally don’t care between T5 and 6, though the small/medium arms care a bit.

Sanctjud wrote:@Cambak:
You did not read that line you quoted properly.

I had said: cause 3ish wounds and (then) pycher battle squad the bikers with 'Reduce Resolve' I think...

Then they are leadership 2 and have to roll snake eyes to not runaway.

They fallback 3D6...then fly a Valk/Vendetta to escort them off the board.
__________________________-

Hot shot lasguns: what Kill dem stunties said.
_________________________

Yea... so are Eradicators Ap4?
_________________________
Executioner: they are biker bases... so can abuse their lengths and be Really hard to get more than 2 guys under a template, then they should be turbo boosting for 3+ covers.

In addition there are better targets like Plague marines popped out of their rides.

Oh... And you are still getting AP wrong. The exectioner maincannon are Ap2 like the plasma cannons (if I recall, while the Eradicator is AP4).

_____________________-

Medusa has a minimum range, and again, the bikers should be spread out well enough and boosting.
In addition, they will have better targets. Bastion Breachers are really overdoing it vs. bikers.

Deathstrike: the bikers will be there at turn 2. So that’s a gamble relying on that and you are right that there are better targets…and I don’t recall too many people using the Deathstrike.

Devildog Meltacannon… ugh… again, spread out and boosting, if not boosting then spread out. Why does it not provide cover saves? What do you mean there? Just because it’s a blast weapon doesn’t mean it ignores cover… nor is it an indirect fire weapon…unless it has special rules to it, there is no need to mention that it “does not provide cover saves.”

True, there are ‘better’ targets.. and I’ve said it as well. But there is a threat to a T5/6 mass unit that is bearing down on you turn 2, with special weapons and are essentially combat units.
Meching up is good and all, but mutli-charges are a reality with a biker unit, so it’s not good to bunch up too tightly. Which can only play into a Chaos players hand if you spread out.

On the other hand, other than early pressure, the bikers are not points efficient. It’s not to say they can’t do their job, but they are a pretty penny and takes something away from the rest of the list.

I still think IoCG is a better investment though. T6 is nice and fun, but gimmicky as the weapons to kill them easily generally don’t care between T5 and 6, though the small/medium arms care a bit.

Yes, I had noticed the screw up on the AP values. And I totally agree with you. But what I was trying to point out is that there are verious ways to take on a biker squad, just some are more effective then others, but those are usually the ways you use to take on things like Land Raiders. I apprieceiate that you were able to comment with out flaming, which is a refreashing thing, after coming over from Warseer. The biker bases are a problem yes, but most people, sadly, worry more about the bulk of their army that that 100+ point value biker unit that they have coming at me. Biker Nob armies are a pain, but can be delt with.

I did read that quote directly, but you'd have to use weaken resolve first, before causing those wounds, and pray that you dont roll high on your LD test for the casting of it. I brought up the soulstorm pyker ability because it is a large blast template, assault, and at full strenge has 1/2 chance of them having to use the 3+ cover save. (they aren't skimmers else they would get 2+ I think.) which would reduce wounds by half. As for the normal lasguns, use the Order "Fire on my target" to make them twin linked, and hope you roll so you can make another order, if your not using the CCS and just a CS.

As you have mentions, Valkyries and Vendettas I agree 100% on.

Due to the poll, and all you dakkaites' written oppinions, I've decided NOT to invest in the 10 man biker squad.
I may eventually (where I come from eventually usually means never) get a smaller squad however.
Thanks for all those educated oppinions.

Really what I can determine from anyone is that, the bikes will still die from a strength 8 hit. The bikes at cost are 470, which you can take a hell of a lot of better options then 470 points worth of bikes. As for the imperial guard player, whatever he shoots at those bikes to kill them will bring them down for half the points or less. I would rather go with raptors if I want fast attack, or just rhino's.

Chaos bikes right now are just not appealing with the icon system and the points cost.

What TheTRueProtoman said.

Though, if you wanted to go 'Sm' bikers, the Vanilla SM dex is fine enough. (aka "Count as").

It's what I do... I have a 'C'SM biker army all done up, (WIP) modeled with Nurgly goodness.
It's not uber-bend-you-over-the-chair competitive, but it's brutal enough of a list with good usage.

It just seems so odd that CSM bikers would be so high in points cost when something like the orks can make a bike squad for not only cheaper but more threatning.

And when you finish those bikes or if they are already finished I would like to see how those turned out.

CSM are high in cost IMO because:

1. It was still on the borderline of the old 4th ed, where bikers were not supposed to be numerous outside of White Scars.

2. The extra attack for not needing to hold onto handle bars. Though not alot, it's 100% more than other Rank and file

3. Access to icons to make them specialized...a privledge GW thought they needed to pay for on top of paying for the icons...

4. I guess...spiky chaos bikers are alot cooler so they cost more...

/shrug.