Starting IG Army

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**Lord of Kaith**

Howdy folks

I'm quite new to 40k, just picked up the AOBR set a couple of weeks ago. I have now familiarized myself quite well with the rules and am looking to start an Imperial Guard army. However, while I do have quite a bit of spare cash, I don't exactly want to be throwing $300 into this army (at least not at once)

So my question was, what's a good starting point? Would the IG battleforce and the codex be enough for starters, with a good force I could expand on over time? And, if I'm allowed to ask this, approximately how many points are in the IG battleforce, w/out upgrades?

Thanks,

-Josh

btw if this is the wrong forum sorry. I couldn't find one that looked like this might belong in it better.

**Kaltak**

The Battleforce and the Codex are good choices to start. i'd start there and see how they play.

**Skinnattittar**

Well, step one would be to buy the codex and check things out. Try your local hobby shop, they should have, or be able to get, the codex for you. Always buy from local hobby shops whenever possible!

Next, talk to your local Guard players, preferably the older guys, watch what they use and how they work. You probably don't need to copy them, but you will be able to see how Guard works on the table, to put context to the units you will be buying.

Okay, now as to your question about the battle force? Without using the upgrades, it's about 250pts. With? You could probably squeeze out about 350pts with good choices and/or some basic substitution modeling. If it comes with the basic Heavy Weapons sprues, you will actually get three of of each of the special weapons (Heavy Bolter, Autocannon, Mortar, Lascannon, and Missile Launcher), but only three bases and six crewmen. With some pick and choosing from your regular squads, and not bothering with the massive basese, you can acceptably make all the options.

So buying two or three of these battle forces isn't a bad idea. You will fill out your troops nicely, get enough HWs to do as you please, a squadron of Sentinels, and three command squads. All about 1000pts for about $300.

You should also consider investing in armor. Depending on what you want to run, don't let anyone make you think there are only a couple of lists. Guard are really flexible this time through. But as a new player, you should consider going with mono-themed lists while you get a hang of them; heavy in infantry, heavy in fast attack, heavy in armor. so we're talking about Valkyries for infantry, Hellhounds for Fast Attack, and Leman Russes for armor.

**ZacktheChaosChild**

I say just get the Codex and write up a list that is maybe 1000 points or lower. Make sure you arte getting all the wargear you want and everything.

**Skinnattittar**

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:I say just get the Codex and write up a list that is maybe 1000 points or lower. Make sure you arte getting all the wargear you want and everything.

Yes, buy and examine the codex before anything else. You may find inspiration in a certain theme or just able to avoid bad purchases (such as Ogryns, do not bother buying Ogryns, for the love of the Emperor, do not buy Ogryns!).

**grankobot**

I don't exactly want to be throwing $300 into this army (at least not at once)

buddy, you are looking at the wrong army.

Here's a guide I posted for someone a while back. It has an army list and everything! WooOooOOO!

Guard aren't a good army to build inexpensively. If you're stuck on them though, I suggest a foot army.

What your army list will look like, roughly:

Company Command + Creed + Camo Cloaks + Vox - 165

2 Priests with Eviscerators - 120

Infantry platoon
Platoon Command Squad - 30
Infantry Squad, Commissar + PW, Sergeant + PW + Meltabombs, 1 dude with Meltagun - 120
Infantry Squad, Sergeant + PW + Meltabombs, 1 dude with Meltagun - 75
Infantry Squad, Sergeant + PW + Meltabombs, 1 dude with Meltagun - 75

Infantry platoon
Platoon Command Squad - 30
Infantry Squad, Lascannon - 75
Infantry Squad, Lascannon - 75
Heavy Weapons Team, Lascannons - 105
Heavy Weapons Team, Autocannons - 75
Heavy Weapons Team, Autocannons - 75

That's about 950 points I think. You'll likely have a sentinel or 2 lying around so you can fill the gap with one of those but don't expect it to do much. If you do use the sentinel, the scout variety are better (but since you have creed, you could scout the armored one anyway? dunno, eventually you'll wish you hadn't put the hard top on it).

The first infantry platoon is a CC unit. You group the 3 squads together to form a 30 man strong eviscerator, PW, melta-toting, LD9 (and stubborn, with a reroll) blob of death. You can charge just about anything with this and take it down eventually (key word..). Dreads, hordes, terminators, anything. Straken can easily be substituted for Creed but your shooty element will suffer for it.

The second platoon uses the infantry squads to screen the heavy weapon teams and give them cover saves in their deployment. Don't forget to give your weapon teams spaces between the screening dudes to shoot though so that your opponents don't get cover as well. It's important that the infantry squads have anti-tank weapons rather than dual purpose guns like autocannons and missile launchers, because their voxes mean you'll be able to give them orders more reliably.

Your company command squad just hides. All they're good for is issuing orders so don't get them killed.

So to field this you'll need:

CREEEEED!
NOT Kell! He's expensive and he sucks! If you can get Creed without him, do it. You'll never use him in a good list.
1 Commissar
2 Priests (no official model, but you can just give some fantasy guy a chainsword and call it done)
11 heavy weapons bases
3 command squads - since they've got nothing cool in them, you can use basic infantry models for these.
5 infantry squads

That's 65 infantry models + the other stuff. Here's the cheapest way to buy all that:

2 Battleforces - $190
Creed - $15-20 (not sure, GW website is down)
Commissar - $15
2 Heavy Weapons Team boxes - $70
3 Snap together Cadian boxes - $24

That's about 300 bucks for 1000 points, which is not bad at all. Buy from an online retailer and you can get up to 20% off (I recommend the war store) so you're looking at more like $250 all together + you'll have a left over heavy weapons squad and a couple sentinels. You can swap some of the HWTs out for a Leman Russ if you like, and it'll work out to be cheaper, but your army will be less effective and with this build and you'll end up with a cheap, poorly organized force instead of a cheap effective one. Buy tanks later, start out with this army.

This gives you a solid core that's very easy to build on. If you can come up with your own bases/tripods (or convert some laying down gunners?) you can easily save some bucks on heavy weapons teams too.

**Lord of Kaith**

*coughs, gags*

Wow.

I had no idea getting started was so expensive.....

Thanks all for the very helpful replies.

That answered most of my questions.

Well, I've wanted to start 40k for a while now. I first liked Space Marines, discarded them for Tau, though about IG, went back to Tau, and now am back to IG. Btw, forgot to mention this before, I'll be playing Cities of Death. (Already got a 5 1/2x3' board in progress, would have made it 6x4 but I have nowhere to keep a board that size.)

Buttt, if Tau are significantly more cost-effective, I might go with them.....

Overall, though, what is a cheap starting army? And please don't say Tyranids...or Orks.....or Nids....because I simply dislike them.

I had thought about Eldar for a while. From what I've found out, basically, all their units are elites at one task and suck at all others. But are they cost-effective?

At age 14, I don't have a heck of a lot of money to be throwing around. I have around $300 atm, which I don't plan to spend in one go.

So....

Out of IG, Tau or Eldar, which is the cheapest to get started with? (And easiest to play) I've heard that Eldar are a bad choice for beginners. I also heard that Tau suck in Cities of Death, because they rely totally on firepower, which is seriously limited in the close confines of a blown-apart metroplex.

Are Space Marines cost-effective? I had really hoped not to do them (everyone does them!) but they appear to be easy to get started with. 1 Tac. squad is $35.00 and totals to 170 points w/out upgrades, if I remember correctly.

I've always liked Tau aswell, but since they rely so heavily on firepower....

However, would an all-battlesuit army work? I can see the havoc a team of battlesuits w/ flamers and maybe fusion guns (deadly at short range) could wreak at close quarters. Since a legal army is HQ and 2 troop choices, then I could get an HQ choice, 2 squads Fire Warriors and a team of battlesuits.

Eldar were my third choice. I've heard Striking Scorpions are an absolute terror in Cities of Death. However, I can see an Eldar army being both difficult to play and expensive, with so many elites.

I was planning to start with a small force and expand over time. Right now I already have AOBR, so I have a 500-pt Ork army, which my brother will be using. I plan on expanding it with more Boyz and a Trukk in the near future.

I'm about 90% sure I'll be getting a Leman Russ & 1 box Cadian Shock Troops for Christmas. However, since Tanks can't really operate very well in a city, I'm not sure how that would work out.

(Gosh this post is long, ain't it?)

Sorry if I'm just rambling on, I'll cram all this into a few questions now.

1) Out of IG, Tau and Eldar, which is least expensive and easiest to play with in Cities of Death?
2) Are tanks just rolling targets in Cities of Death?
3) Would I be better off just expanding the 2 forces in AOBR (an idea I loathe)
4) are Eldar as hard to play with as most people say?
5) would a mainly-battlesuit Tau army work in Cities of Death? (Against orks)

Thanks,
-Josh

**DarkHound**

1)Imperial Guard probably are, although my friend has done some interesting things with his Tau. Individually Imperial Guard is less expensive, but you need a lot more of them. Honestly, they'll all end up being about the same, so you need to go with what you like. You aren't going to spend the time painting an army that you don't like the theme of.
2) For IG, anything short of a Leman Russ or a Valkyrie is a rolling target. Chimeras can be useful, but without the Repair rule that Rhinos have, they can easily get bogged down in terrain. All of the Eldar vehicles are Fast Skimmers, so terrain is less of an issue. Tau have all Skimmers, but without being Fast they sometimes can't move far enough to land safely.
3) No. If you are playing either Orks or Space Marines it is, but you aren't, so don't.
4) Eldar and Tau are really difficult to start with. Eldar requires a lot of coordination. For example, Eldar have literally 4 unique niche melee specialists, so you have to balance your psychic powers to help them if they aren't fighting quite the opponent they specialize against.
5) Yes, but each suit costs 2 dollars less than a 10 man IG squad (although it is more effective). Crisis Suits are your best bet in the Cities of Death. Even Broadsides with Stabilitzers are great.

**grankobot**

Any army that can be expanded (even if it's just a little) from pieces from Black Reach will be very cheap compared to your other options. Here's a few blog posts you might be interested in

http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/10/cheap-army-my-black-templars.html - black templars for $175

http://www.threeplussave.com/2009/11/budget-army-1.html space wolf cavalry for $300ish

The BT army is a good example of how cheap it is to expand on the starter sets. It's also decent on the table and a good army to start with, since there's a relatively small model count and everything is tough which makes it forgiving to play. The only thing that takes any learning is how important the deployment can be, since everything in the list has to walk.

The IG list I posted is also good for beginners. Your dudes are nowhere near as durable, but you've got twice as many of them and redundancy in almost every unit. It can be a little intimidating to stare down ~70 little men who all need paint, though.

**CadianXV**

Ah, grankobot, we meet again!

I would recommend getting the Battalion sets if you're starting guard- they are essentially a platoon in a box, and work as a great basis for an army.

Heres a list which grankobot may find familiar...

Bear in mind that I made this in 10 minutes, and have no idea how well it'll play. The platoons are also based around the Battalion box set to try and save you some cost, hence the inclusion of the Sentinels, which actually work quite well in CoD.

============

HQ

CCS: Commander (power sword, bolt pistol), Regimental Standard, Vox, 2 plasma gunners, 2 bodyguards, Astropath, Master of Ordnance, Fleet Officer
232

Chimera
55

Troops

1st Platoon
PCS: Platoon Standard, Vox, Plasma gunner
65

Squad: Vox, Grenade Launcher
60
Squad: Vox, Grenade Launcher
60

Heavy Weapons: 3 Lascannons
105

Special weapons Squad: 3x demo charges
95

2nd Platoon

As 1st Platoon

Fast Attack

Armoured Sentinel: Plasma Cannon, Hunter-killer missile
85
Armoured Sentinel: Plasma Cannon, Hunter-killer missile
85

Valkerie: Rocket pods, Heavy bolters
140
Valkerie: Rocket pods, Heavy bolters
140
(For the Special Weapons)

Heavy Support

Basilisk
125

============

This list works out at £251, for 1500 points.
If you drop the Valks and Special Weapon Squads, the price drops to £166 for 1000 points.

Hope that helps!

**Lord of Kaith**

Thanks guys.

Darkhound, that helped a lot.

So now I've narrowed it down to either IG or Tau. Both shooty armies, with one relying on sheer volume of weak shots and the other on long-ranged, powerful shots. Hmmmm....

grankobot, both links proved helpful. I'll have to google and see if there's any more blogs like that

As for painting, not really an issue. I'm a rare type of speed painter in my own right, I consider myself unusually good at it. I once painted & based 34 LOTR Morannon Orcs to a nice & tidy standard in one Sunday.

However, I would try and paint to better than tabletop, for sure--probably at a speed of about 2 CPH (cadians per hour) and I can paint for 3 hours straight on a good day. (If I have that much spare time)

**DarkHound**

You're welcome. Cities of Death is something I'm particularly experienced with, and none of the lists posted here would do too well in that setting.

For a 1k Cities of Death Crisis Suit army, you'd do well with a single Battle Force, and simply augmenting it with more Suits and Kroot.

I don't know what kind of force you want for Imperial Guard. My Tau friend is currently building an Air Cavalry list with drop troop veterans so he can feel like he's playing ODST with a longer campaign. My Traitor Guard runs with an allrounder feel, using light chasis, Leman Russes and a mass of infantry. You could go Tread-Head in Cities of Death (weee Hellhounds!), or Horde infantry (weee Conscripts!), or anything in between.

**pr0t011187**

Always buy or at least look at the codex first

**FoxPhoenix135**

Lord of Kaith wrote:Thanks guys.

... at a speed of about 2 CPH (cadians per hour) and I can paint for 3 hours straight on a good day. (If I have that much spare time)

CPH had me laughing...

I used the assembly-line method to get squads completed in a day... I would paint all the flesh, then all the boots, then all the guns (not exactly in that order but you get what I mean). I could knock out a squad in a few hours, and they would be considerably better than if I had to sit there and try to finish a model at a time (I would probably give up halfway through if I were doing it that way).

A tip: Not exactly effective, but cost effective, is to use battleforces' cadians as Veteran squads, not normal platoons. Veteran squads can take a few upgrades that makes them fairly high points cost, but more effective on the table. They won't be as forgiving as 3+ armor that marines have, but they'll be close with BS 4 and an 4+ save if you give them the Carapace upgrade. This makes your battleforce go from being worth 250 points or so to being worth 350 points or so! In the end, more dollars-to-points cost effective. They won't be as good on the table until you get them transports, but 2 battleforces (90 apiece?) combined with maybe a valk (60?) with some chimera transports (30?) would give you a decent mech-vets or aircav for less than 300 bucks. As stated before, get them from a retailer that offers 20% off and as low shipping cost as you can get.

**Lord of Kaith**

lol glad I made you laugh

Upgrading to veterans sounds cool. I'd probably kit-bash to make each squad special. And that certainly makes it a tad lighter on the wallet

My internet supplier has 'em for:
Cadian Battleforce: $76.00 each
Chimera: $26.00 each
Valkyrie: Not currently in stock

I'll have to get most, if not all of this myself. Even though Christmas is right around the corner, I've already got a PS3 under the tree...

However, I don't think I'll get all of that at once. Just for starters, I'll probably get 1x Battleforce and 1x Chimera, and get the other battleforce next time I sell some stuff on Ebay.

Thanks again everyone for the help,

-Josh