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Reasonings being:

Very expensive (160 basic)

Weapon upgrades suck

Initiative one (pathetic) what were they thinking

All in all very disappointed

Personally I think there was a lot more potential at hand for these magnificent creatures but as always they now expect us to go out and buy new toys.

They were I1 before wern't they?
They're not as great, but they're still alright. They might actually be better. They can get up to I3, reroll all ones fire Bioplasma as a small blast before they assault. The Fex isn't dead, the only options they really removed were the ones no one reallty took anyway. They were OP in the last codex, now they're balanced with the rest of the army.

You can get the worm from dune for 170points. and it has awesome deep strike rules. Carnifex in a pod is alot more. Foot slogging carnifex is too slow from what I gather.

Moved to 40k discussions.

with 2 brainleech worms to 12 S6 shots, i think not

I plan to use my regen-crushing claws fex as Old one eye. The rules seem like fun, but the model sucks.

I know I've seen a lot of hate for the new 'fexen, but truth be told I don't think they're -dead-.... I just think we won't see nearly so many of them any more. True, the trygon costs the same as a deep striking 'fex, or you can get the mawloc for only a little more than a bare bones fex, but the Trygon is a dedicated assault unit and the mawloc is just... odd. And true, the harpy or a brood of hive guard, or if you're willing to shell the points out for it, the tyrannofex, can all out shoot him. BUT what none of them can do that only the carnifex can is DO BOTH. keep a set of talons, or even replace them with claws. Give him adrenals so he can get up to i4. Give him a stranglethorn cannon (heavy venom cannon is ok.... just not for shooting at vehicles). March him across the table with your gants or stealers. Now your opponent has to decide if he wants to kill your troops off, preventing himself from getting swarmed and denying you the ability to hold objectives, but by doing so he has to take the fire from the fex and eventually deal with it supporting an assault from whatever is left of your troops when you get there.

He's not useless... he's just been outclassed in any dedicated single role tasks. He makes himself useful again if you have him doing both.

There's still something to be said about a Carnifex with bioplasma in a spore pod.

If we ignore the mind bogglingly horrendous rules for the Pyrovore for a second, the Carnifex is the single biggest disappointment in the Codex. It is written almost as if the writers wanted to give a big "feth you!" to all the 'Nidzilla players with their Dakka and Gunfexes.

But more than the price tag, the 3+ save, the I1 and the bizarre need to arm them all in exactly the same manner, there is one thing above all else that I find simply absurd:

The Zoanthrope is a feeble creature, bloated with psychic energy and only capable of moving via psychic levitation. It's tiny arms would hardly be a threat to Gretchin, let alone Guardsmen or Marines. It is Weapon Skill 3.

The Biovore, a living artillery piece designed to stay far back from enemy lines shelling people with spore mines. Up close it is utterly defenceless, possessing no close combat ability to speak of. It is Weapon Skill 3.

The Mawloc possesses short and stubby arms that are inefficient in close combat - not weak, just not suited to actual HTH combat. It is Weapon Skill 3.

"The Carnifex is one of the deadliest of all the Hive Fleet's creatures". It is Weapon Skill 3.


WTF?

that's kind of nitpicking on details. Ever think it might be one of the deadliest creatures because it is strength 9?

Ya I believe the Carnifex was a massive dissapointment. They could have been so much better for the price tag they are horrible. Last edition you could get one for 50 points less that could beat the gak out of them.

Really?! We needed a Fifth thread about people whining that the Fex is no longer the under pointed wonder of the book!?

Yes, I wish he would have kept a 2+ sv or at least the option to upgrade to it, but otherwise he's still good, with plenty of good options. He has has both ups and downs compared to the Trygon, which a lot of people who've been using have said was over rated.

It's WS 3, but it does reroll all of its misses.

That being said, I don't know why anyone is pissed about the new book 'killing' the carnifex army...5th ed did a pretty good job of doing that in 2008 anyway.

Because losing the no-brainer option from list-building and having to put more effort into list balance and building is apparently a crushing blow.

Bookwrack wrote:Because losing the no-brainer option from list-building and having to put more effort into list balance and building is apparently a crushing blow.

Quoted for troof. I'll add that people who think the Carnifex was "nerfed" should stop sucking and learn how to play the game.

Really?! We needed a Fifth thread about people whining that the Fex is no longer the under pointed wonder of the book!?

I created the original R.I.P Carnifex thread and i support this thread

So i have 9 games played with the new 'Nids so far, and im 7 wins to 3 loses, sooo im not doing so shabby with them. However i have found some units that just plain rock vs other units which are "allright" and the Carnifex so far has Consistantly put himself in the "Rocks" list. He is pretty costy, at 160 per model, but what you get is a beast that can go insaneo on some things, forces armys to shoot at them or dedicate their "obsuredly large close combat mosnster" unit at him, freeing you'r gaunts and other units for flanking and picking at their rears.

The Fex isn't dead gents, he just changed how he was rocking, went from clasic rock to heavy metal. I really think it is still an all star preformer. He has outperformed all of my Trygon runs too, easily

and Raveners? Love them, they are scarey fast assualt demons, that if not watched will rip apart Vehicles as fast as they can troops and other infantry units.

Well, you could use the old codex....

lord of the ghosts wrote:Well, you could use the old codex....

try using it at a tournament though lol

I really must remmember to bring my cheese and crackers to these whine fests which keep popping up

im actually glad that the carnifex has been slimmed down it makes them less confusing seeing as I ususally had to ask which of the multitude of bio morphs does that carnifex have and that one and that one etc etc

out with the old in with the new I always say (so lets do that to the dark angels already)

I think that the Carnifex has been improved:

You don't lose attacks for giving it a gun. Of the guns the Heavy Venom Cannon is now blast and works just fine against open-topped vehicles.

You don't lose attacks for giving it Crushing Claws.

You can get a real Bio-Plasma attack.

You can get them in broods, freeing up space for other Heavy Support and Elite options (such as Trygons and Mawlocs!).

They're more expensive? Termagants and Hormagaunts dropped like rocks, and besides they'll do the real work in the list. It evens out, and then some.

Living Battering Ram means you're no longer limited to I2 at best. Combined with an Adenal Gland and you can hit at I4!

Combine that with 5 S10 attacks on the charge re-rolling all misses? That's pretty good!

Use that in combination with Dominion (that's the one where you can run and then shoot, right?), and accelerate your Carnifex towards the enemy!

Accompany them with a Venomthrope and make sure they survive.

I really like the way the new codex synergizes. It really promotes a diverse army - the new problem is how to fit all those units in one army!

H.B.M.C. wrote:If we ignore the mind bogglingly horrendous rules for the Pyrovore for a second..

A bit off topic here, but why does everyone hate the Pyrovore so much? I have used them to great effect just dropping 2 in a Spore right next to say, a Guard infantry unit.

The Pyrovore is basically immune to synapse problems. It rages when out, but still gets to shoot, and it has power weapon attacks, so getting in CC isn't the worst thing is can do.

It is reasonably cheap.

What is the problem?

Mattlov wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:If we ignore the mind bogglingly horrendous rules for the Pyrovore for a second..

A bit off topic here, but why does everyone hate the Pyrovore so much? I have used them to great effect just dropping 2 in a Spore right next to say, a Guard infantry unit.

The Pyrovore is basically immune to synapse problems. It rages when out, but still gets to shoot, and it has power weapon attacks, so getting in CC isn't the worst thing is can do.

It is reasonably cheap.

What is the problem?

I agree. I think the Pyrovore is quite a nice unit in the right army list. His only issue is that he shares an elite slot with the nids premere anti-armor units. In a list designed to take out vehicles from the heavy support or HQ slots, I could see 3 squads of Pyrovore’s bringing incredible pain.

I just started nids. Having played eldar and gunline marines for years. But im glad the fex went up in points. Its still very deadly. But is not the undercosted monstrosity it was in the last dex. I mean seriously, dakka fex for 115 was fething broken as hell. Now they are slightly overcosted, but only slightly. And you have many many more options to choose from. I can kind of understand people who played nidzilla being miffed about it, but i mean seriously. You played one of the most basic armies in the game, both in list construction and tactics.
HURF DURF I EAT YOU

I think all the realists new the 4th shooty carnifex army was going away.

Once I finish painting my current armies I'm definately going bugs. And from what I have read, I'm taking at least 1 carnifex in a spod. I would say the main dissapointment about the new fex is that you can only take a spod for 1 fex at a time. So maximum 3 spoddding fexes.

But it's a dissapointment because I think it would cool to be able to spod in 9 fexes!!

GG

I use a fex in spod with bio plasma, twin linked devourers and crushing claws. It wrecks a fair amount of face, though ive only used it in one game. Took out 12 boyz, a trukk and a battle wagon. Spod killed another trukk.

Bookwrack wrote:Because losing the no-brainer option from list-building and having to put more effort into list balance and building is apparently a crushing blow.

QFT

I agree, the simplestic design scheme for this army is gone...for the most part. I mean "IF" you actually look at the list again and look at how many MC's are now in the codex, you can theorehtically make a "nidzilla" army, you just won't have Elite Carnifex's you'll replace them with something else, but 3 Fex's Grouped (or 3 x 3 Fexs grouped), 1 Tyrannofex, 1 Trygon/Mawloc, Raverns for Fast Attack, Tyranid Warrior/Genestealer Troops and 3 x 3 Zoan's with Spods and then 2 Tyrants or 1 Tyrant and a 1 Swarmlord. Whatever make up you want, the ability is still there, you just now have more options and choice to synergize the army with. So lets see at the most (with 3 groups of Fexs) that's 9 + 2 Tyrants = 11 MC's. Now if you want even MORE MC's in the list throw out the troops selection previously stated and throw in 3 Squads of 30 Gaunts and toss in 3 Tervigons, that's 14 MC's on the Battlefield. So the previous number of MC's on the table was what 6 Fex's + 2 Tyrants = 8? You can now have 14....how is this dead?

Is your current Nidzilla build/list dead? Short answer, Yes. Long Answer, re-read and actually play a test game with the new units and go over the rules with each one and see how you can interact the new unit options (all units not just the MC's) with the units you're more familiar with and see how your options and tactics widen drastically.

Nid's are back from being easy mode now, and its not a down fall its a major plus.

Cheers~

I was just looking at the 4th edition codex. I'm sure I'm not the first one to point out the only real difference between 5th and 4th edition is that the base carnifex is about 50 pts more expensive.

Well... the venom cannons are different in that they aren't str 10 anymore, but you can pen now where as, you couldn't before.(only glance)

I don't know, I just can't see the problem. I think C-fexes are still really good options.


GG

Take a Carnifex from the 4th edition codex, add two pairs of Scything Talons, then add the ability to re-roll all misses, and +2I on the charge, then you'll see where the 50pts went. Í don't have my codex with me, but I'd be that the re-rolls and bonus Initiative offsets whatever difference remains.

Nurglitch wrote:Take a Carnifex from the 4th edition codex, add two pairs of Scything Talons, then add the ability to re-roll all misses, and +2I on the charge, then you'll see where the 50pts went. Í don't have my codex with me, but I'd be that the re-rolls and bonus Initiative offsets whatever difference remains.

Yes!! Makes sense to me.

GG

They can fire a blast before they assault, and can potentially have 8 attacks at S10. Then they have oiptions to regenerate and can take awesome ranged weapons.

I like them, expensive but pretty good.