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My question to you is how much do you disclose to your opponent in a tournament?

There seems to be three options:
#1. Take the time tell them all of your special rules and abilities of your units.
#2. Hit just the important parts of the rules
#3. Have them learn the hard way

Here are 2 quick examples:
The first one is the Avatar who is immune to Flamers and Melta weaponry.
The other example is Warp Spiders who can do a warp jump move in the assault phase.

Do I disclose their abilities to my opponent, or have them learn the hard way?

So do I educate the new players, or the fact that you know the rules to other armies is just one of the things that separate the good players from the bad players?

Are people actually showing up to tournaments not knowing the basic abilities of mainstream armies?

Anyone who doesnt know such basics as the flamer/melta resistant Avatar deserves to learn the hard way. You ether study the enemies book or learn from playing them. Its that simple.

In a tournament you learn the hard way.

Showing up without doing your homework will get your behind spanked.....as it should be. It is no different from showing up with a subpar list or playing all day without eating anything.
It is simply a bad idea and you will by punished for it.

Yeah I have the same thing when I use the Deceiver. In casual games I will tell my opponents but in tournaments, no way. I seriously can't count the amount of games I have won with my opponent saying, "But I didn't know it ignores invulnerable saves."

I'll ask my opponent if they're generally familiar with my army, and summarize any army-wide special rules. As I deploy each unit I'll generally also tell my opponent what upgrades/weapons they have. I won't take the time to go into individual unit special abilities unless my opponent asks.

I was at a tourney recently and decided I had to tell my opponent my Deff Koptas scouted. I had a complex unit of 5 all with buzz saws. He was setting up as close as possible with DE.

Didn't matter as he missed guessed their range and they killed literally 5 raiders/ravagers in the first turn.

I try to explain anything beforehand, personally, rather than have it become a point of contention during the course of the game...I'd rather have my opponent not feel ''cheated'' because I suddenly give a 3+ invuln. save to my battle sisters at the start of his assault. but I prefer as much of a challenge as possible; for me it makes for a more ''epic'' retelling of the game later, win or lose. but I played other games where people locally were more about winning than having fun, and I got kinda bored with that, so...

I generally explain anything that isn't abundantly clear - basically anything that is more or less unusual about the army. With my Wolves I take the time to tell them what Mark of the Wulfen does, the amount of close combat damage my Grey Hunters can do, and so on. If they're new to the game I'll let them know what everything does, but most people can generally tell what's what.

Must be fun to win off ignorance, and not skill.

i generally explain friendly or tournament play, when asked. I usually ask during set up and what not, but i try to maintain a general knowledge of most armies.

I ask if they know the army. If they say yes, I don't tell them much. If they say no, I go through every unit's rules during deployment.

All it costs me is time; it's hard for most players to assimilate, say, the Swarmlord's rules, and understand their implications. But they can't protest ignorance, and most people seem to appreciate it. (It's good for my soft scores, too.)

With one off games with folks I don't really know, I explain units as I'm placing them on the table.

For tourneys, I pretty much do the same thing. I don't explain every nuance as there are time limits to a tourney. Plus, they have a copy of my armylist and can read my codex at any point. If they have questions, I always explain it to my opponent.

Maybe that is why my soft scores are so bad.

When I played my 3rd edition Thousand Sons I told everyone their many special rules.

Now these days I have forgotten to tell my opponents the special rules and it seems to make them unhappy. I was playing a Space Marine army and shot it up and he chose to break during his morale roll in the shooting phase. He thought he was safe until I moved my warp spyders next to him in the assault phase and escorted them off of the board.


In my defense, he did not tell me that they could fall back voluntarily. (I am not a space marine player and after he did it I remembered that they can do something like that)

To me I see two options you can not tell me and whoop him because you have supa units that he doesn't understand and forever be known as the douchebag who wins, douchebag being key part. or you can tell him at the very least the important stuff and be seen as the guy who plays fair. and if you're not going to tell me you're special rules you'd better have your codex on you to show me because I'll wanna see it.

TheBlackVanguard wrote:To me I see two options you can not tell me and whoop him because you have supa units that he doesn't understand and forever be known as the douchebag who wins, douchebag being key part. or you can tell him at the very least the important stuff and be seen as the guy who plays fair. and if you're not going to tell me you're special rules you'd better have your codex on you to show me because I'll wanna see it.

I don't think anyone is advocating not answering questions; the question is just how much you volunteer.

I tell my opponent the capabilities of anything and everything in my army beforehand, I even put the special weapons/sergeants on top of the rhino to show what is inside.

It irks me somewhat to see that people willingly use deceit to gain the upper hand, it's not my style but i'm not going to judge either, but i'll say I don't like to suddenly find out something that should have been disclosed before.

Dravenguild wrote:I tell my opponent the capabilities of anything and everything in my army beforehand, I even put the special weapons/sergeants on top of the rhino to show what is inside.

It irks me somewhat to see that people willingly use deceit to gain the upper hand, it's not my style but i'm not going to judge either, but i'll say I don't like to suddenly find out something that should have been disclosed before.

I don't think we are talking about deceit. I never try to deceive my opponents. If someone asks me about a unit I will go into detail about their rules, but if they don't ask I won't.

Should someone know what a warp spyder does?

Thinking back on almost all of my many tournament games I do not think that anyone has ever explained their special rules to me.

Sometimes I am playing someone and I know their army and rules better then they do, but I am bad with some armies rules like Space Marines, and everyone expects you to know them.

combatmedic wrote:Anyone who doesnt know such basics as the flamer/melta resistant Avatar deserves to learn the hard way. You ether study the enemies book or learn from playing them. Its that simple.

I have read all the codexes, but I've never actually played a Dark Eldar army. I wouldn't be able to remember every DE rule and weapon if thrown into a game against a DE army. Does this mean i should be punished? Punished for not memorising every codex in print?

No. I don't think it should be a prerequisite to know every rule for every army before you're allowed to compete.

I would ask them if they're familiar with my army, and if not, outline all the basic big rules for them. I wouldn't go into extreme detail unless they asked, not for game winning purposes but because of time constraints

In a tourney, if he asks, I'll tell. Otherwise, it's really his fault.
A friendly game is different, and I'll happily disclose any information I think they need to know if I'm aware that they're not familiar with my army.

I'll generally check if my opponent is familiar with the army, give a quick refresher on unusual things (Chooser of the Slain, for example) and - most importantly - allow my opponent free access to my army list and my Codex.

In a tournament, I would probably skip the refresher, but will still ask if he (of she) is familiar. The only difference is that if he says yes, I wouldn't actively offer the Codex - I'd wait for him to ask. Then again, I've never been to a tournament, so... *shrug*

In friendly games with basicly unlimited time, thats where I will happily explaine every secial rule/ability of my army. In a Tourny, I give my opponents a detailed army list(Army builder with all extra/special rules added) and a breif overveiw if any of my minis need expanation(say a conversion job that is not instantly understandable). I go to tournys to meet new people and have some fun games(Herasy I know), so making sure my opponent also has fun is a consideration to me.

Either they learn the hard way or ask as they go along.

I'm very generous with my special rules. I generally lay it all on the table before the game starts. However I can see how in a competitive match it shouldn't be a requirement (unless asked).

At tourneys people play to win and taking any advantage you can. if your opponent turns up without knowing your rules and doesn't ask, that's ignorance on their part.

If I've got the first turn, I place and explain at the same time (Orks usually take a little while) assuming my opponent is good with that. I still do a quick run through of what has what for my opponent unless they ask me not to. Just common courtesy as I see it. Now, bear in mind that I'm not trying to qualify for a GT or anything. Most of my tournament games resemble the ones I play with friends for the most part.

Hmmm i think that they should learn the hard way i mean cmon if your a general do you tell your enemy your strengths and weaknesses???

I think in fantasy it's a bit different, since you don't have to reveal the abilities of magic items (or who has them). However, any non-magic item ability I will definitely explain to my opponent beforehand (such as my ward saves not being able to be used against magic attacks). I think it's just good sportsmanship to make sure they know what they're playing against... even if I keep my tactics and any magic tricks up my sleeve a secret

In a tournament, as I'm setting up, I always ask, 'So, have you played Dark Eldar before?',with a grin. If they say yes, you leave it at that, and get on with things. I always give my opponent a copy of my army list and ask to examine theirs before a game anyway so I can quickly assess and prioritise units for destruction by matching them up mentally against mine.

If they say no, I grin wickedly, say something like, 'Ah, you're in for a real treat then!', and proceed to outline the generalities of my army and weapons. I won't go into specifics unless they enquire, because

a)this is a tournament, and if they make a mistake, its good for me.
b)I can't be bothered to explain every little nuance of how my army plays in a comprehensive breakdown.

Giving your opponent a detailed tactical breakdown of your entire army is handing them a massive advantage, because you can be sure they won't do the same for you. I don't the exact ins and outs of every army out there, but I know enough to play a game well. If I make a mistake, I mentally note it for next time. That's fair play in my book.

I usually don't offer up much about my army in a tournament setting. If your playing in a tournament, you should have the experience and prior knowledge of at least the basic differences between the armies.

Not only that, but it always amazes me how people don't ask questions. I've used different powerful units over the years, and yet very few asked me how they work, their weapons, their charge ranges, etc... They have a copy of my list, I'm more than willing to give them an overview of what the unit does, yet when it does destroy a part of their army, apparently it's my fault for exploiting an advantage of my own army.

Tournament games are on a time limit, and I can't spend 10 minutes going over all the stuff in my army. I'll throw out a bit of information (fist in this squad, PW in that one, etc...) but I leave it up to my opponent to ask me about rules/units that he is not familiar with.

I play Space Marines so this isn't usu. a problem. However, I have learned the hard way during casual games against Tau (their long distance hazy-autocover/nightfight rules save thing; their autohit seeker missiles; marker lights; etc.). Any more before I target a unit, I ask if it has any special rules I need to know about.