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Man the last mission is a kick in the you know what for mechanized lists.

You mean armies that just run over the top of footsloggers will have a disadvantage?

Oh noes. Tyranids and foot slogging orks and foot guard might have a chance at the prelims now.

Shock and awe.

Warmaster wrote:Man the last mission is a kick in the you know what for mechanized lists.

Quite the disincentive for flying libby dreads, too.

for mission 3 do Drops pods, Demons or anything that deepstrikes count as 3?

Let's see it hoses ever transport in the game, It kills Blood Angels completely, and it makes no sense what so ever.

They sure wanted to make sure leafblower was out. It looks like they penalized Blood Angels in the process though.

It won't hose over a jumping BA army.

Actually a jumping BA army have an advantage. DoA for everything (since everything would have JP's) so very easy for inferno pistols to have the 3" melta range (or very least be within the 6" range).

If I had my DoA BA army ready in time I'd bring it.

Warmaster wrote:Man the last mission is a kick in the you know what for mechanized lists.

I saw your response before the .pdf loaded, and thought to myself: "Oh no, I bet they're doing something idiodic, like making vehicles worth double killpoints." I can't believe that GW managed to top my mental worst case scenario of dumb decisions. It's quite an accomplishment.

If there's one place I didn't expect idiotic and ham-handed comp. enforcement, it's the 'Ard Boyz. They don't even demand painted miniatures. I will probably still attend 'Ard Bozy, but this is incredibly frustrating, seeing as I just went out of my way to acquire 3 extra Chimeras and an extra Vendetta to turn my 1,850 point IG army into a "competitive" mechanized force for this "competitive" tournament.

Yeah, they really kicked Blood Angel's teeth in on the third mission, considering the majority of their army moves over 6".

You can't even field Mephiston without him counting as three. IMHO, they hurt Blood Angels more then Leaf Blower, whilst simultaneously giving Tyranids a huge boast. Stealer shock in Mission 3 makes people cry.

The rest of the missions are fine, but number three is just poorly written.

Dave_Fay wrote:for mission 3 do Drops pods, Demons or anything that deepstrikes count as 3?

Since deepstriking is more deployment than movement, I would imagine not... but they should probably define that clearly. It would be nice for them to explicitly say that units in transports don't count, either.

Vehicles count as moving at cruishing speed the turn they arrive.

By the strict letter then, Drop Pods count as 3 KPs.

The BA list I was thinking of brining gives up 40 kill points, while the Salamanders list I was thinking about gives up 19. The more I think about this mission, the more it pisses me off. I despise missions that intentionally hurt you just for what you bring.

I really like the first two, it's a step up from "insert mission here PLUS kill points" of last year. Tyranids won our local Aard Boyz test using last years mission, and my by calculation, that list he fielded gives up 15. If I face him with my BA I am already down by 25 before the dice even rolls, bad, bad mission design, worst then the modified KP one of last year.

From their example I can't quite figure out if the monolith would be worth 3, it can never move more than 6 inch's. But it allows a unit to come through it.

Part of the definition of 'cruising speed' is moving more than 6", yes? That would meen a monolith would count...

@Mahu: I feel your pain. My BA list jumps from 15 kp to 30... although, hell, even my Daemons would jump from 15 to 28.

CatPeeler wrote:Part of the definition of 'cruising speed' is moving more than 6", yes? That would meen a monolith would count...

@Mahu: I feel your pain. My BA list jumps from 15 kp to 30... although, hell, even my Daemons would jump from 15 to 28.

Except that in the Monolith rules it explicitly states that it may never move more than 6" a turn.

....although...assuming no full-mech players adjusted their lists to better suit the third scenario, it's pretty likely that full mech lists would dominate the top tables going into the final round. In that situation, since *both* armies would be hosed in kp, it may end up being a total wash.

If the 3rd mission came 1st (or worse, 2nd), then it would be a much bigger deal.

Fateweaver wrote:It won't hose over a jumping BA army.

Actually a jumping BA army have an advantage. DoA for everything (since everything would have JP's) so very easy for inferno pistols to have the 3" melta range (or very least be within the 6" range).

If I had my DoA BA army ready in time I'd bring it.

Everyone of those units are worth 3 kill points. If that is not hosing over an army I don't know what is. Hell even if you drop the back packs and get a transport it hurts you more. You went from 3 kill points to 4 kill points.

Warmaster wrote:Except that in the Monolith rules it explicitly states that it may never move more than 6" a turn.

Sure. The deepstrike rules, though, state that deepstriking units count as moving at cruising speed (i.e., greater than 6"). That "count as" bit may end up as a crotch-shot for pods & monoliths....

I just ran the numbers. Depending on how my Inquisitor dies, and whether or not I blob up my infantry, my army gives away between 53 and 56 KPs.

And to think I was talking to people yesterday about whether my army would be better if I dropped out an Assassin to field my last two extra Chimeras...

The mind boggles.

Have your FLGS contact their reps and ask, remember there are just about 12 guys who put this whole thing together and decide the scenarios too. Since I know those guys I expect the answer to come back for deep striking units as not worth extra points. Monolith will probably be worth the extra points. And yes, it can hose units over for sure. Makes me reconsider my land speeders as separate units, and if they count drop pods as 3 then I will use Eldar. I actually give up fewer VPs.

I love how 'ard boyz basically said

"feth da metal bawkses"

No sarcasm, btw, lol

Another interesting observation: All the games last a set 6 turns. I guess this is probably a good thing for playing such big games in such limited time, but I find random game length to be one of the most interesting aspects of the standard missions.

Dave47 wrote:Another interesting observation: All the games last a set 6 turns. I guess this is probably a good thing for playing such big games in such limited time, but I find random game length to be one of the most interesting aspects of the standard missions.

Agreed.

Won't mean a thing to slow-players, though...

Dave47 wrote:Another interesting observation: All the games last a set 6 turns. I guess this is probably a good thing for playing such big games in such limited time, but I find random game length to be one of the most interesting aspects of the standard missions.

Oh, it's still "random," as in "How many turns will we actually get through in 2.5 hours?"

Also, it's important to track your VPs every game, for that last bonus point in mission 3.

Haha...my DE list in the third mission could theoretically give up more than 60 KP, as it fields more than 15 units that can move greater than 6" in at least one phase of the game. If any of the wyches roll 12" assault, those units go from 1 KP to 3 KP, too.

In practice, I'll have to wait and see how this actually affects the outcome. Likely, after the first two missions, those at the highest tables in mission three will both be highly mechanized forces, so the difference in KP between the two opponents might not be that significant.

Though, it might be HUGE for some lists.

Janthkin wrote:Oh, it's still "random," as in "How many turns will we actually get through in 2.5 hours?"

Hah, fair point. Speeding up my thought process is one of the big things I need to work on; with that plus my new deployment trays, I'm hoping that I'll be able to keep things moving along at a reasonable clip. Of course, that all changes if I decide to have a banana freak-out and bring an all infantry IG army. Man, those things are slow to play! They make my mechanized IG look downright efficient. :-P

Why all the complaining, they give you 10 days to write a list.

One mission can be rough, but if you are fighting another mech list, whats the issue?

Also, its the third mission, if your mech army gets you to the third round with a couple good scores, you just need a draw to a minor victory to lock yourself in.

Not to mention, if you still shoot an army off the board you can still win by KP.

I think its a nice attempt to deterr the mechanized forces, but late in the tourney so it may still pay off to mech up.

I am not a fan of the set turns being at six. I like the chance element of not knowing if the game is going to end to make a gutsy late game move pay off.

I think you'll see a lot of full mech players starting that third mission all in reserves...

I'm only giving up 31 killpoints in mission #3 so I'll be fine. I want to tinker with my list for mission 1, as I only have 4 scoring units right now, but the right play might be to just shoot for a major victory. I see a lot more ties & minor wins using these missisions for most people. Should be fun!

oh great... VPs and table quarters... I didn't know we were playing 4th edition