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Here is my list that I am going to play next week!!


Warmaster 100
Mark of Tzeentch 30

165 Slaughten class
165 Slaughten class

170 Murder class
170 Murder class

300 Desolator

200 - 5 Infidel class

200 - 5 infidel class

I am going to play two 5 block of infidel class for cover firer and for ramming other ships.

Well, your list seems OK, probably the biggest thing about it is that it has no carrier capacity. Even if you are going for a gun fleet, you will want at least a few fighters around to defend your fleet. So, I would recommend that you drop one of your infedel squadrons for a Devestation, as these are outstanding carriers (pound for pound, one of the best in the game). Even better, take 2! In my experience, Chaos can easily get by without any escorts since their cruisers pack so much firepower and have 25cm of movement.

I agree with Ruckdog. I rarely field any escorts because our cruisers have that much to offer. Two Devastations would be plenty of strike craft support for the fleet, while lending their long ranged lances to the fight.

I would usually include Infidels if I pick any escorts. I think a Devastation with a squadron of Infidels is a lethal combo because your enemy can only defend against bombers or torps, not both.

-Zhukov

That is true, but the problem is that Chaos aren't really a torp-centric fleet and I find the Infidel isn't the most effecient torpedo boat. For me, torps are better if they are coming from a Repulsive or battleship.

Pulling off the combined Torp/Bomber attack can be difficult, I find. Especialy with a Devestation, which can only launch a 4-strong attack of bombers, you are not likely to do a whole lot of damage. This is especially true if the opponent has braced and/or made effective use of defensive fighters.

One Devastation is enough, just so its there.

Infidel are very efficient torpedo boats because they fire them in pairs. This is good for boarding torpedoes because you can spread them everywhere.

The problem is, Infidels cost 40 pts, to the Cobra's 30. If you are trying to torpedo spam, those 10 points add up quickly. Also, boarding torps are generally a pretty poor weapon. The fact that they have to first survive any turret fire, and then roll against the target's armor, and then roll on the critical table means they they have a low chance of doing much of anything. If the opponent braces for impact, the odds get even worse.

Escorts would be the best target for boarding torps, but assault boats would do that job better. That's the main reason why I recommend dropping at least one of the Infedel squadrons for another Devestation, and if you take 2 Devestations, that would give you 8 launch bays. This is pretty imporatnt at 1,500 points, IMO, since at that level IN will typically field 8-12 LBs, and fleets like the Tau or Tyranids could easily field 20.

Chaos fleets cant get Cobras so direct points references are irrelevant, also the two designs are equivalent only in that they both carry torpedoes.

Chaos fleets generally dont torpedo spam, they dont have much opportunity to, their long range firepower comes in the form of 60cm lances.

Torpedos are used for support. Against capital ships combine your Infidel to launch a barrage at close enough range as you would with Cobras. Where Infidel really shines is against escorts. Kill escorts at range with boarding torpedos.

What you have forgotten is that hit and run attacks kill escorts (unless you roll a 1), and they turn before they move. The turn is the selling point, regular torpedoes don't work unless you fire them really close or in a big wide wave and hope the enemy doesnt have fighters. Torpedoes waves are too easy to deal with, boarding torpedoes can score its even if you only have pairs and even if you fire at long range because they turn. Also fighters (and gunfire) will only destroy a sinngle pair rather than a large wave which is of questionable trade valuie, especially if you are launching bombers. yes you could replace boardinf torpedoes with assault boats, but carrier capacity is limited and expensive and needed to deal wirth priority targets while boarding torps are/can be cheap and plentiful.

Boarding torpedoes are not everything, once the range closes you should mass your squadron together and use a solid wave of regular torpedoes, Cobras do that Infidel do0 that. But only Infidel have a credible attack that takes advantage of torpedoes ubnlimited range.

Also remember that Infidel have 5+ armour, and firepower 2, which comes out as a fair amount of firepower if taken in a large squadron, as torped escorts usually are. In fact the only thing wrong with an Infidel is that it only have one turret against the two turrets carried by all the other frigates.

I think the points comparison is fair to a point, as both ships fill a similar role in their respective fleets (torpedo boat) and are both escort type ships.

I haven't forgotten that crits destroy escorts. My point was that boarding torps are a poor weapon for inflicting criticals. You have to get past the turret fire of the target, then make a roll against the target's armor value to see if you hit, and then roll again on the critical hit table. If the target BFIs, has fighter/torp support, or has turret massing, the odds are even worse. For my money, assault boats are a much better bet as they don't need to worry about armor values and are tons more maneuverable than even boarding torps are. If you have good luck with them, more power to you!

You are quite right that splitting torps into small waves is a great way to overwhelm the ordnance defenses of the enemy. However, Cobras can do that too. They might even be a good counter to boarding torps, since if 2 torps contact two boarding torps, the mutually anihilate.

As a result of my experiences, I feel the Devestation is a better bet than a squadron of Infedels. The carrier just seems like a more flexible and effective weapon to me.

I too would include a Devastation in this list. However the way to pay for it is not by losing Infidels, well as least not most of them.

The hidden weakness of this list are the Slaughters. Dont get me wrong, Slaughters are excellent ships, but Chaos has a number of really good ships to take, the trick is to take the right ones in the right order and for the right reason.

Slaughters do work well with Infidel if you use them to close and mass fire, the OP mentioned ramming, which pretty much covers how close he wants to get. Incidentally ramming is not a good idea except for Imperial cruisers and orks.

Anyway this fleet suffers not only from a lack of attack craft (no matter how you organise most fleets you should always have some), the fleet also lacks direction. The battleship and Murders want nothing more than to sit back at long range and fire lances, make the neemy come to them. long range fire from Infidels healps here, plus the odd opportunist attack craft from a Devastation or two.
Slaughter on the other hand want to close and mix it up. While Murders can do this, its not what they shine at, the Desolator is definately a ranged player.

You could lose the battleship, but that would ruin the character of the fleet. Therefore I would lose both Slaughters and buy at least one Devastation, preferably two squadroned to give a good chance of a decent leasdership score. The 'change' would have to come out of one of the Infidel squadrons.
While your at it upgrade a Murder to a Hades to double up the lance fun.

Desolator - 4 lances broadside
Hades - 4 lances prow on
Murder - 2 lances prow on
Devastation - 2 lances broadside, 4 attack craft sqns
??Devastation - 2 lances broadside, 4 attack craft sqns??
remainder: Infidel - 2x boarding torps at long range

That should be enough to put a large dent into an enemy fleet before it closes, and still have a fairly decent short range fire profile. If Eldar come calling the fleet still has plenty of long range batteries, plus mobile Infidel harassers.