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After getting my last list "served", I decided to make some edits to try to make it more competitive.  I've come up with more efficient and effective list.  However, I am worried it is a bit too small at 1500 points since it has only 62 models....

Here's the list:

Hive Tyrant - Wings, 2 Scything Talons, and Toxin Sacs
(Troop killer, fast, and relatively cheap)

Broodlord - Toxin Sac and Implant Attacks
Retinue of 5 Genestealers with Extended Carapace
(hq/elite stalker, usually deploy carefully. Replace implant with carapace against guard/tau)

Carnifex - Twin TL-Devourer and Enhanced Senses

8 Genestealers - Extended Carapce
8 Genestealers - Extended Carapce
8 Genestealers - Extended Carapce

8 Hormgaunts
(retinue for flying tyrant)
8 Spinegaunts
8 Spinegaunts

Ravener - Rending/Scything
Ravener - Rending/Scything
Ravener - Rending/Scything

2 Zoanthropes - Warp Blast and Synapse
Carnifex - Venom Cannon, Barbed Stragler, Enhanced Senses, and Reinforced Chitin

Total: 1501 pts

Usually the tables are 4 by 6 or sometimes even 4 by 5. Ranges are usually pretty short. Skimmers(aka speeders) are definitely the first on my targeting priority for my carnis/thropes.  Fixed tanks such as Lemons and Predators are definitely scary, but tornados just have to be taken out to protect the stealers.  Hopefully, the raveners, some stealers, or flyrant can knock out a fixed tank later.   Ordinance kind of scares me though...

The tyrant and broodlord will be used very carefully rather than headlong charge. I feel that the flyrant and broodlord have good synergies and put pressure on the enemy. Without the broodlord, the flying tyrant is kind of isolated as it moves toward the enemy.  While I feel shooty tyrants are great, i only want to take enough shooting to take down specific targets and rely on cc otherwise.  The dakkafex is a pretty good shooter and the broodlord allows me to take a few stealers and not use a troop choice.  Hopefully, a tyrant and broodlord in the opponents backfield with carnies and stealers advancing can force some interesting dilmenas!

The gaunt squads are kept small on purpose to act as my first deployment pieces, save my stealers for last, and counteract min/maxed las/plas squads. I hate the enemy being able to deploy small squads while I place my important ones down first.  Gaunts also act as leadership checks against shooting if possible for the stealers. Genestealers and raveners form the main assault force and are useful against anything.

Synapse is a little vulnerable, but will try to counteract it with careful deployment and use. Will try to use cover, hide behind fexes, and try to position for a masterful strike rather than just throw nids into the grinder. This is more like a biel tan list rather than tyranid swarm.  Is my list too small and caught in the middle?  Aka...too few stealers, too few gaunts, and too few MC to have a real impact.   Seems like everyone is advocating Godzilla, full stealer rush, or full gaunt swarm.<!-- / message -->

 

I'd give the spinegaunts scuttlers and rething the whole 8 hormagaunt idea. (what are they going to achieve anyway?)

Seems pretty good though.

The hormgaunts serve as a unit to support the hive tyrant and raveners. They are fast enough to keep pace with them. Kind of a retinue to absorb some attacks when the tyrant and raveners try to disrupt squads. Yak had suggested this as a possible good role for hormies. Its nice to have their speed and give them a clearly defined role.

But if they are not meant for killing then why are you not using scuttling spinegaunts?

If they are meant for killing then gargs would be better though it uses up a FA slot so maybe that is such a negative that horms are the favourite.

Scuttling spinegaunts may be alittle cheaper than hormagaunts, but they aren't as fast.

The hormagaunts can charge 12", engaging an enemy and tarpitting it until the flyrant can join in on the fun. Spinegaunts have a 6" charge, and thus would not be able to do this, possibly leaving the tyrant open to be charged by the enemy in the next turn.

Scuttling may put the spinegaunts up 6" farther, but that is a one-time deal. Hormas can assault 12" all the time.

Thats the way I'm seeing it, anyways.

Posted By Gabe on 02/22/2006 5:19 PM
Scuttling spinegaunts may be alittle cheaper than hormagaunts, but they aren't as fast.

The hormagaunts can charge 12", engaging an enemy and tarpitting it until the flyrant can join in on the fun. Spinegaunts have a 6" charge, and thus would not be able to do this, possibly leaving the tyrant open to be charged by the enemy in the next turn.

Scuttling may put the spinegaunts up 6" farther, but that is a one-time deal. Hormas can assault 12" all the time.

Thats the way I'm seeing it, anyways.

Exactly why I choose the hormies.  Any advice on the rest of the list?   Is it too fragile or will it be a highly tuned machine?  Maybe yakface can come back and serve the list again...

As far as total army composition I'm still concerned that you don't have enough AT firing (i.e. no Gunfex). I simply don't think it is an acceptable way to create a bug army unless you are going absolutely bonkers with scuttling genestealers (and even then I still don't like it).

I really think that a Gunfex will help your army perform better against a variety of opponents.

A suggestion on what to drop would be easy: The Broodlord. The Flying Tyrant performs pretty much the same role as the Broodlord, but better. And on those Alpha missions you're stuck with the Broodlord (and co.) slogging it across the board.

Dump him. Take a Gunfex.

If you have any poinst left over (how many points is the broodlord/retinue?--don't have the codex on me) I'd take a few more Gaunts. You can use some more bodies in this army. You might even consider losing one Ravener, as it can buy you an extra 8 wounds worth of spineguants.

I do have a gunfex...that's a venom cannon/barbed straggler carni no?

Scuttling may put the spinegaunts up 6" farther, but that is a one-time deal. Hormas can assault 12" all the time.

Thats the way I'm seeing it, anyways.

Yes but after you charge the first enemy what are the chances you are more than 13" from the next squad you want to charge? not a big deal though, does not save too many points.

Gunfex: Carnifex w/BStrangler,VCannon,Enhanced Senses,Reinforced Chitin=163 pts.

For shooting, I have a gunfex in my list, a dakkafex, and 2 zoanthrope warp blasts. Probably not enough against a mechanized list, but I do have tons of rending...Not sure if i want to replace broodlord with a shooty tyrant.

What did you lose to take the Gunfex? Not the flying Tyrant I hope.

I didn't drop anything. I think you just missed the gunfex the first time in the list. Slight oversight on your part

Here's my list in dakka terms:

Hive Tyrant - Wings, 2 Scything Talons, and Toxin Sacs
(Troop killer, fast, and relatively cheap)

Broodlord - Toxin Sac and Implant Attacks
Retinue of 5 Genestealers with Extended Carapace
(hq/elite stalker, usually deploy carefully. Replace implant with carapace against guard/tau)

Dakkafex - Twin TL-Devourer and Enhanced Senses

8 Genestealers - Extended Carapce
8 Genestealers - Extended Carapce
8 Genestealers - Extended Carapce

8 Hormgaunts
(retinue for flying tyrant)
8 Spinegaunts
8 Spinegaunts

Ravener - Rending/Scything
Ravener - Rending/Scything
Ravener - Rending/Scything

2 Zoanthropes - Warp Blast and Synapse
Gunfex - Venom Cannon, Barbed Stragler, Enhanced Senses, and Reinforced Chitin

Total: 1501 pts

Well crap. How did I miss that before?

Oh well. I still stand by what I said before. I'm not a huge fan of the Broodlord especially if you're giving him expensive upgrades like Toxin Sacs and Implant Attack. If you're using him as a "character killer" he's too slow. Most characters will see that unit coming and move away. Just dump those upgrades if you want to keep the Broodlord (you're better off giving upgrades to the Winged Tyrant if you want that kind of character killer).

I also still think that your gaunt units could all use more models. Like I said before, dropping one Ravener (or the Broodlord) would give you a big opportunity to bulk up the size of your army so it can soak a little fire before all of your units are under 50%.

Well, I like the broodlord myself, but I am biased because I am currently running a genestealer heavy list, and want to keep it as pure as possible, and fit in tons of stealers.

That said, for this list, I would agree with Yakface, and say drop the broodlord to beef up the gaunt units. I myself don't like to go below 12 models in gaunt broods, and not below 16 for hormagaunt broods. a single bad fleet roll can leave you out in the open for rapid fire death, and if you only have 8 models in a brood, a good round of shooting can make that brood a non-issue... if the brood survives, you probably won't even want to assault, because you'll just be giving the opponent a free massacre.

In addition, at 1500, I don't 2HQ choices is needed for this kind of list, unless you're trying to take lots of warriors. Stick with the flyrant, get more bodies in the gaunt broods.

What are your opinions on tyrant guard? If i drop the broodlord, i'd probably trade in the dakka fex for a venom/devourer tyrant. Gives me much better range and firewpower against vehicles. While tyrant guard may protect, they are 90 pts and pretty useless as hth/shooty models. Also in escalation, they will absolutely suck.  Granted, their ability to take bullets is amazing.

I think it is generally accepted that if you're going to take a walky tyrant, tyrant guard are pretty much a must have. They may be expensive, but they are great ablative wounds, and really aren't *that* bad in close combat... 3 rending attacks each, 4 on the charge.

Alright I've compiled both your advice and decided to drop the broodlord for a shooty tyrant. Since I'm taking a shooty tyrant, I'd also drop the dakkafex since the shooty tyrant is a better shooter and can be protected by a tyrant guard. With the left over points, I filled out my gaunt squads and increased by model count to 72. Still not great, but better.

Hive Tyrant - Wings, 2 Scything Talons, and Toxin Sacs
(Troop killer, fast, and relatively cheap)

Hive Tyrant - Venom Cannon, TL-Devourer, Enhanced Senses, and Toxin Sacs
1 Tyrant Guard

8 Genestealers - Extended Carapce
8 Genestealers - Extended Carapce
8 Genestealers - Extended Carapce

15 Hormgaunts
(retinue for flying tyrant)
12 Spinegaunts
12 Spinegaunts

Ravener - Rending/Scything
Ravener - Rending/Scything
Ravener - Rending/Scything

2 Zoanthropes - Warp Blast and Synapse
Gunfex - Venom Cannon, Barbed Stragler, Enhanced Senses, and Reinforced Chitin

Total: 1500 pts


I only have one tyrant guard because I didn't want to spend too much on them and risk escalation missions. On the other hand, tyrant guard are pretty good at protecting the tyrant. I could drop a zoanthrope to take another one, but then I'd go down to only 3 synapse creatures. Since I've taken more gaunts and have lots of units, I think 4 synapse creatures to start with is bare minumum for decent coverage across the board. However, if I were to drop a zoa for a TG, I'd make one of my synapses more durable. I'd take the 20 saved points, buy one more horm and get a catalyst for the shooty tyrant. Do you think I'm better off with the zoanthrope or another tyrant guard? Overall, is this list better?

I think it looks pretty good.

Anymore tweaks I think should wait until after you play a few games with this list.