Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok this debate came up at the local GW. Chaos codex states that Word Bearers can take ANY daemon, nurglings are daemons, nurglings can only be taken if there is a unit with the mark of nurgle, word bearers can only have mark of chaos undivided. So do I follow they can take ANY daemon and take nurglings or nurgling entry that states I cannot?

IMHO the Word Bearers rule should take precedence

The Nurgling rule is the specific rule, the WB rule the general. Specific > general. No Nurglings for you.

Wordbearers can have nurglings.

One unit for each character or unit with the mark of Nurgle.

That means you are allowed a maximum of 0.
But you are allowed to have them.

Good find Odd.

Why can't you take a unit of Plague bearers and then take the nurglings? Plage bearers have the mark of nurgle.

Plaguebearers don't have a mark of nurgle.

The Word Bearer specific rule overrides the nurglings general rule.

Same as having bloodletters and deamonettes in the army, normally you can't because they are opposing gods, but the WB rule overrides that.

Still means you can't do it, because...

One unit for each character or unit with the mark of Nurgle.

Children of Father Nurgle is the more specific rule; Word Bearers are not restricted from using Nurglings specifically, but since they can't take Nurgle-marked marines, they can't use Nurglings because the Children of Father Nurgle rule still applies.

Posted By Missile Catcher on 03/01/2006 8:32 PM

The Word Bearer specific rule overrides the nurglings general rule.

Same as having bloodletters and deamonettes in the army, normally you can't because they are opposing gods, but the WB rule overrides that.

You can have Daemonettes and Bloodletters in one army.

I don't think they can, unless something very specific happens.  It says flat out in the Word Bearers enrty "The Word Bearers may use any type of Daemon." OK, what's a daemon?  Page 30 show 4 types of daemons, plus the greater daemon entries. They are clearly marked as daemons.  That's nice, we know what daemons are, and we know Bearers can call them.

I think the big question here is:  Are Nurglings daemons?  No where in the Nurgling entry of the 'dex I'm looking at says that they are daemons.  It does say they are subject to instability tests, but it doesn't say they are daemons specifically, as it does in the Daemon Packs entry on the previous page. OK, nurglings are some thing special as per the Children of Nurgle special rule.  Fine.

But what happens if you sumon the Great Unclean One?  Well Word Bearers can do it, it is a Daemon so they can summon it. But look at the Greater Daemon entry on page 23 under Living Icons: "Such is the power of Greater Daemons that each counts as an Icon of the Deity they serve so lesser Daemons can be summoned adjecent to them."

Hmmm... OK so Great Unclean One is an Icon (or perhaps mark?!?) of Nurgle.  Can you can call Nurglings then if the GUO is on the table?  Sure, why not, I say.

Page 12 Daemon Summoning:"Apart from Daemon Princes and Nurglings, all daemons must be summoned onto the battlefield." Nurglings are classified as daemons.

Word Bearers can summon a Great Unclean One because they have the Mark of Chaos Undivided not because they have the Mark of Nurgle.
That a Great Unclean One is a Living Icon makes no difference in regards to Nuglings. Nurglings aren't summoned.

Hmmm... OK so Great Unclean One is an Icon (or perhaps mark?!?) of Nurgle. Can you can call Nurglings then if the GUO is on the table? Sure, why not, I say.

A Great Unclean One doesn't have the Mark of Nurgle. It is a Living Icon. They are not the same thing.
You can't "call" Nurglings. GUO on the table or not. They aren't summoned.

Page43 CSM Codex: "The only mark that may be assigned to models in a Word Bearers army is the Mark of Chaos Undivided." Marks of Chaos are assigned to models from the armoury or as a unit option, there is no other way to have a Mark of Chaos. Word Bearers can only take a Mark of Chaos Undivided. Without the Mark of Nurgle a maximum of 0 Nurglings can be included in your army.

You are allowed to take 0 Nurglings but you are allowed to take them.

I'm allowed to take 0 land raider crusaders and 0 wave serpants as well, but the rule that says "the word bearers may use any type of deamon" allows me to take any deamon, including but not limited to nurglings.

No other legion has this rule listed, and they can all use the different flavours of deamons, but they can only use the nurglings if they have a squad/character with the mark of nurgle. Word Bearers get the pass on this rule from the nurglings.

I remembered the deamon rule wrong, if any army is lead by a marked lord, you cannot take squads/characters/deamons/vehicles of the gods ancient enemy god.

BTW, I don't know why anyone would want to take nurglings, they are the suckiest swarm in the whole game.

Word Bearers get the pass on this rule from the nurglings.

Quote a rule that says that. There's nothing that says the Nurgling rule is suspended. Word Bearers are allowed daemons; however, they're still subject to the other rules applicable.

codex Chaos space marines pg. 43 "the word bearers may use any type of deamon."

If there is a restriction, oh say such as codex chaos space marines pg. 31"Children of father nurgle: Nurglings tend to follow in the the shadow of the Champions of Nurgle consequently an army may only include one unit of Nurglings for each Independant Character or Unith with the Mark of Nurgle." the Word Bearer rule would over ride the nurgle rule because the Word Bearer rule would not be true of if the nurgle rule was true. Why would the creators put a specific rule in the word bearer list (that is not present in any other legion specific rules) that would not be true unless it over rode the nurlging rule (the only non greater-deamon that has rules that limitations on how it can be taken in any army).

No, that doesn't say that the Nurgling rule is overrided. The first rule is, break no rule. There is no specific override of the Nurgling rule, thus they can't have more than 0 in the army. All rules have to be satisfied, unless specificly voided. No specificity, not allowed.

Second rule: The specific override the general.  Word Bearers says "any daemon", which covers the whole range of daemons, of which Nurglings are a subunit.  The Nurgling rule is specific to them, and thus overrides the general WB rule.

Simple as that.

The description of the Nurgling tells you how a Nurgling is used in battle. To say that "the Wordbearers special rule overrides one of the rules in the description of the nurgling" is assinine. By default then all of the special rules for the Nurgling would have to be removed meaning that in a Wordbearers army they can hold objectives, are not vulnerable to blasts, are not small targets and have a 5+ armor save instead of an invulnerable save.

The rules assigned to a set unit in it's description are NOT overridden unless specifically stated. Example, the 0-1 Obliterator specific rule is over ridden in Iron Warriors armies because their rule specifically states it.

The Wordbearers rules does not ignore any specific rulings for a unit, it just doesn't. The Nurgling can only be in an army list that has a model or unit with the Mark Of Nurgle. No model or unit IN a wordbearers army can have a mark other than the Mark of Undivided therefore cannot take Nurglings.

To claim that the Great Unclean One or the Plague Bearers have the Mark of their God is to say that they cannot be in the Wordbearers army. They are the essence of their Diety, they have no need to be marked by said diety.

No Nurglings in a Wordbearer army by letter of RaW. Sorry man.