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Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Administratum Water Cooler Loiterer [Brisbane.Au]

The idea for my army is a very themed shooty army with traits and Dark Angel special rules. It is painted as Dark Angels so I'm not stealing Dark Angel rules.

I want to use:
'Trust your Battle-Brothers'
'Heed the Wisdom of the Ancients'

opposed with:
'Eye to Eye'
'We Stand Alone'

Then write the list from Vanilla (ultramarines) codex and add special rules for all IC and Terminator Hounors sgt's. Paying the appropreate points.

I think it's 5pts to stubborn a TH Sgt and 10pts for IC?

I need to know more exact cost for DA Special rules and if this kind of vanilla + army special rules thing can be done (or if it's been done), I figure an army built this way would never be allowed in a tounament but I'm not worried about that.

Any help or critisism would be appreciated.

Usiel - playing outside the box buy the rules


Don't listen to Tzeentch children, he wont give you his pocket money if you kill each other

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Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

By the rules, of course not.  The SM codex is very clear that if your chapter has its own special rules, you use those instead of the trait system. 

If you want to make up your own rules with friends, feel free, but they may come up with something crazier in return (I'd like to use Bloodletters in my Slaanesh army!) that you wouldn't be too happy with. 

IMO you should just use the DA rules OR the trait system.  Either one can easily make for a powerful army.  My DA have a very nice win percentage, a top ten GT finish, and several tourney wins.


Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
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Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Administratum Water Cooler Loiterer [Brisbane.Au]

I envisioned a static firing line, so I wanted true grit to protect my tac squads from assault. Dark Angels always make me think of shooting configured Dreads so I wanted lots of them. I also wanted to incorporate the forge world Mortis class and the plasma cannon Dread. But there goes my elites using DA rules and I want Deathwing.

I suppose if I build using the space marine codex I could use a commander which would give my army a Ld of 10, which is almost like stubborn. Plus the armies fighting style is static so it's like intractable.

How would you compose a Dread heavy army using Dark Angel rules though?

Don't listen to Tzeentch children, he wont give you his pocket money if you kill each other

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Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran




Baltimore, MD

Um... you're mistaken.


The Mortis dread is a 0-1 Dark Angel (or successor) elite choice. The plasma cannon dread is also an elite choice (and Dark Angels are the only loyalist chapter that can still use them), but there's no restriction on them. That leaves 1 elite slot open for a deathwing squad.

And the angels can do a static firing line as well as any marine chapter.


No need to try to use traits (which you can't, if you want to use DA rules). Just use our blessed codex.

Proud owner of &


Play the game, not the rules.
 
   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran




Baltimore, MD

After thinking on it a little bit... you can also fill that 3rd elite slot with another plasma dread... and still take deathwing as part of a deathwing command squad for a terminator leader of some sort.

Proud owner of &


Play the game, not the rules.
 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Vancouver, Canada

Posted By Mannahnin on 02/26/2006 10:05 AM

By the rules, of course not.  The SM codex is very clear that if your chapter has its own special rules, you use those instead of the trait system. 

 

Were is it very clear? The ONLY reference I have found that uses "must" and "trait" is on pg. 45 under Chapters of Legend. Where it states:<?

 "if you wish to play an army of one of these Chapters [Imperial Fist, Raven Guard, Salamanders, White Scars, Crimson Fists, Iron Hands, Blood Ravens] using the traits rules, then these are the traits you must use."

No reference to Chapters with their own codex's Also besides the table on pg. 8 there are no other references to any of the chapters that have a codex (Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars), so based on this and conclusions that other people come up with on this forum those chapters don't have any rules in the Space Marine Codex so you can come up with your own traits for them. (they all count as "codex" or "regular" marines).

Also I have experimented with the trait rules on my marines and nobody has said anything to me about it at my local gaming store.


-Death Wing

"Repent! For tomorrow you die!"

Dark Angel commander for 12 years and counting 
   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran




Baltimore, MD

40k uses a permissive ruleset. That means, if it says you can... you can. If it says you can't, you can't. If it doesn't say you can't, you still can't.

I see nowhere it stating that DA CAN use those rules. Same thing with all the other subcodex. Oddly enough, same thing with using the Ultramarines.

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Play the game, not the rules.
 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Vancouver, Canada

But it also states that you don't need to use those traits for the listed chapters if you don't want to. So you could do the same with subcodex chapters. And besides, who will stop you from using a colour scheme that is the same as Dark Angels, and call tem Dark Angels. But you don't use the Dark Angel codex.

-Death Wing

"Repent! For tomorrow you die!"

Dark Angel commander for 12 years and counting 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Administratum Water Cooler Loiterer [Brisbane.Au]

Well I had already begun tearing my list to pices, and used HQ Terminator Squads. Plus I didn't mention the other Ven Dread in the list which filled all three slots when adding the Plasma dread and the Mortis.

The problem I'm having now is, it reads something along the lines of: One Grand Master or Master may be up graded to Master of the Deathwing. They may take a Deathwing Terminator squad as a command squad. So I used my Grand Master as the Master of the Deathwing and gave my second HQ a Dark Angels Hero ( Master) terminator armour, so that his command squad can wear Terminator armour as well, or can only the Master of the Deathwing use a Terminator Command Squad?

Usiel - Got Tactical Dreadnought Armour?

Don't listen to Tzeentch children, he wont give you his pocket money if you kill each other

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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Vancouver, Canada

Only the Master of the Deathwing can have a terminator command squad, all other characters (besided master of the Ravenwing) can only have a tactiacal squad for a command squad. So the master can have terminator armor, but his squad will have power armor.

-Death Wing

"Repent! For tomorrow you die!"

Dark Angel commander for 12 years and counting 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Administratum Water Cooler Loiterer [Brisbane.Au]

Well that throws my list out the window

Any suggestions... anyone? please?

Usiel - Got nothin

Don't listen to Tzeentch children, he wont give you his pocket money if you kill each other

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Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran




Baltimore, MD

Playing fast and loose with those rules there Death_Wing. Of course you can have more characters in terminator armor leading terminator squads. Look at the Dark Angels FAQ 4.1 on GW's site, and you'll see that the "command squad" entry in the Dark Angels codex has been completely replaced. Now you use the "Terminator Command Squad" entry in the space marine codex.

I see nothing in the rules that prevents you from having 2 terminator command squads if you want to.

Might be SLIGHTLY against the fluff... but not illegal.

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Play the game, not the rules.
 
   
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Dakka Veteran




For your elites throw in some grey knight terminators, their about even with the death wing but their fearless instead of stubborn and don't get the same weapons. . . They get strength 6, AP 4, assault 3 weapons that ignore invulnerable saves, or they can get heavy flamers that ignore invulnerable saves. . .

They are also incredibly nasty in hand to hand, strength 6 power weapons with WS 5, if a psychic power affects them they get the same affect as psychic hood but each one gets to use it, so if you hit a squad with Storm of the Emperor's Wrath don't expect it to go off. . .

They also get some other great rules like True Grit with their Storm Bolters, roll for nightfighting whenever you shoot them without any wargear affects (no acute senses), they can have smaller units of terminators, and they get a nice psychic power to use on initiative 1, basically drops a Large Blast Template on whatever their assaulting. . .

And for all those great rules they only cost like 50 points per terminator. . . they might have some other stuff but I don't remember it all right now. . .

look for them in the Demon Hunter Codex
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User





Posted By citadel97501 on 03/03/2006 3:27 AM
For your elites throw in some grey knight terminators, their about even with the death wing but their fearless instead of stubborn and don't get the same weapons. . . They get strength 6, AP 4, assault 3 weapons that ignore invulnerable saves, or they can get heavy flamers that ignore invulnerable saves. . .

They are also incredibly nasty in hand to hand, strength 6 power weapons with WS 5, if a psychic power affects them they get the same affect as psychic hood but each one gets to use it, so if you hit a squad with Storm of the Emperor's Wrath don't expect it to go off. . .

They also get some other great rules like True Grit with their Storm Bolters, roll for nightfighting whenever you shoot them without any wargear affects (no acute senses), they can have smaller units of terminators, and they get a nice psychic power to use on initiative 1, basically drops a Large Blast Template on whatever their assaulting. . .

And for all those great rules they only cost like 50 points per terminator. . . they might have some other stuff but I don't remember it all right now. . .

look for them in the Demon Hunter Codex


Ohh come on, Dark Angels and Inquisition totally drags the fluff through the dirt.
   
Made in us
Master of the Hunt





Angmar

Posted By Subtext on 03/03/2006 8:23 AM

Ohh come on, Dark Angels and Inquisition totally drags the fluff through the dirt.


Not to mention that the FAQ states that DA can take exactly zero (0) allies.

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Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran




Baltimore, MD

To be honest blue loki, I don't know what to make of that FAQ. That FAQ was created and then updated between when the =][= books were released. So, what takes precidence? The DA codex update didn't allow it, then the Daemonhunter codex did, then the FAQ disallowed it, then the Witchhunter codex did.

I really don't know that using grey knights really IS illegal, since the RAW explicitly contradicts itself.


That being said, having =][= allies is EXTREMELY unfluffy.

Proud owner of &


Play the game, not the rules.
 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Administratum Water Cooler Loiterer [Brisbane.Au]

Exactly,
I am making a themed army and the last faction the Dark Angels want breathing down their neck is the Ordo Malleus.

I was given the FAQ rules by a Red-Shirt and it was only half a page (the rest was some crappy picture) that were mods to DA special rules like 'stubborn'. I didn't get anything about a HQ change. But I also later learned that the same Red-Shirt didn't know of the Second Edition DA ver 3.5 codex. Go figure.

So cheers KiMonarrez

Usiel - Got Deathwing?, hell yeah!

BTW could someone make a link to the 4.0 FAQ so I can download it. Tah

Don't listen to Tzeentch children, he wont give you his pocket money if you kill each other

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