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I know, we see a post like this every couple of weeks, but I am having trouble deciding on those last few points and I bow down to the collective experience here.  Here it goes:

 

1850 Steel Legion Mech List
Mechanized
Storm Troopers
COD
Iron Discipline
?

HQ  JO  CCW/BP, Vet Std Bearer, 2 Flamers, ID
Chim  HB/ML, improved comms

Plt
HQ JO w/ Bolter, 3 x plasma, ID
Chim HB/ML
4 Squads: all Las/plas,  Vet sgt w/ Bolter
Chim HB/ML

AF
Squad Las/plas/ vet sgt w/ bolter
Chim HB/ML

2 x 5 Deep strike suicide Storm troopers w/ 2 meltas

LR w/ HB
Demolisher w HB/ HB sponsons

I have about 125 pts left and several options:

1) Basilisk w/ IDF

2) 3rd DS Stormie squad, beef up HQ ld to 9 with honorifica, add more plasmas to HQs

3) 2-3 DS Sentinels as I have a doctrine and all 3 fast attack spots open. (more targets/distraction to divide my opponents fire)

4) Hellhound

5)  Drop some stormies & add a vet sqd in chim.

I am most tempted by # 2 choice

I used to try and fit in Rough Riders, but 1/3 of the time in escalation they will be the only target on table.  The Big 4 squad platoon is for escalation where I will try to use the improved comms reroll to get it on the table ASAP.  With LD 8 for all units I am not sure I even need the standard bearer if the officer LD isn't 9 or 10. 

Can I improve on this in any way? 

Thanks

 

Improve? Put plasma guns in the command squad in stead of flamers. Then with your extra points I would go with the dropping sentinels because that can be fun every once in a while.

1) Trim off the 5 vets sgts from the Inf/ AF sqds. That's another 35pts man. Those 5 bolters aren't going to do much since they are spread out across your lines.

2) I'm not too keen on those plasma gunners in the PHQ's myself. That's a lot of points tied up in 4 5 man units. That's 120 points alone in those guns. Besides your PHQs being prime targets to burst the ole bubble, now they're more victory points. I for 1 am a fan of letting the mini sqd hide behind the platoons so they can do their job.

I do concede that the points might be worth it during some situations. I guess, I would suggest dropping it to 1or 2 PG's in the PHQs. Then atleast you have a sponge or 2 to soak up casualties.

3) DT/Mech...I know the Codex doesn't specifically say you can't use them together so I won't tell you that you can't shouldn't. They're so yin/ yang though. To me, they should be mutually exclusive, but I didn't write the Dex...

Now, if you are going to use the 2, I would definitely drop the ST's altogether. Since you are using them as a suicide unit, you may as well use the more effective of the IG suicide units....Vets FTW....cough!

For 5 more points/Sqd, you get an additional Melta shot for as long as they live.

4) Either add anothe LR or drop the current 1. Never use just 1 LR

5)I don't like the idea of a Vet sqd in chimera....unless maybe.........3 plasma and LC? I'm gonna hold my opinion on this. For some reason, I kind of like this. I know someone will tell you hells no though. Don't forget to take some ablative wounds in this sqd if you do. I for one, would target the hell out of it because it's quite effective, but just as easy to kill as the rest of the army.

6)Finally, there's nothing wrong with a few more sqds of Inf. As it is, you've only got 50 or so troopers. I get 40 in at 1k. Just something to think about.

The 6 pt vet sgts are for LD 8 as I expect my plt HQs will die. The 1 pt bolter-- why not, wounds marines on 4s and might glance AV10.

I am thinking a 3rd ST unit might be redundant. The single sentinel Dropping will give my enemy lots of anoying targets to deal with, dividing his fire. Might even grab an objective.

If I take vets they must be in a Chimera due to mechanized, thus the Stormies.

Drop troops -- why not? The stormies are dropping via deep strike, right? They are the air cav (helicopters) part of my Armored Cavalry Regt. (When I was in the Army in the 2nd Armored Cav we had all arms -- tanks, bradley scouts, Apache Helicopters, artillery, etc)

Well, every Division, Brigade Combat Team, Task Force has all arms. While you were in the 2nd All Criminal Regiment (j/k), correct me if I'm wrong, the only deep striking/drop trooping guys there were LRSD,if you had that, attached SOF, unlikely, and maybe a battalion Task Organised to do an Air Assault. The AAS, I doubt, seeing as that is generally for Light (10th/ 25th), Airborne (82), and Air Assault (1-0-Worste). While you guys may train the AAS, your bag is the heavy gig. Why would you leave the comforts of a stifling hot track to leg it once you were dropped off? OOPS, I forgot, we are talking about the army...I think we both know the stupid gak they can pull. 1st BN/ 87th INF speaking from experience in Afghanistan (Anaconda) and Shkin, Afghanistan. (they gave us legs uparmored for line platoons...

On topic: I know what you mean about an actual BCT/ JTF having everything it needs to get the job done through task organisation. Remember, though, 40K ain't the real deal. The Doctrines are to show a certain style of play right? While tactically, this combination makes sense, 40K doesn't generally play like that. When did you train for close combat with a sword? Don't give me any best ranger hatchet throwing BS either.

According to the letter of the law (rules) nothing says you can't DT Sentinels. I was looking at it more from a Mech unit with elements besides the Sentinels (Vets) dropping.

Getting off my keester and reading the Dex again answered the question for me...Because Vets are "Guard Infantry" they couldn't Drop because they must use the Chimera.

WTH were we talking about again? Oh yeah, I guess, under the circumstances, the ST's are the only ones to fill the suicide roll.

An LC Sentinle "Dropping" might be a nasty surprise indeed. I'd love to know what you settle on. Later.

Hmm, maybe I should model my Sentinels with big jump packs on them or something....To be honest I never used DP Sentinels and it just recently occurred to me.  The sentinels themselves are vehicles, I am just modifying the way they arrive.   I have 5 sentinels and I never use them anymore since they always quickly die to str 4 rapid fire.  If I can get these guys on a table usefully again -- great!

My goal is in an escalation game to have nothing on the table turns 1-2 to get shot at and hopefully come on after any drop podders, etc.  With the sentinels I could choose not to drop and instead deploy them with the scout rule.  It gives me more flexibility.

The Doctrines are there to be used.  If they didn't want you to mix them it wouldn't be allowed, like Lt inf mixing with Mech.  Now what really annoys me fluff wise is drop troop plt HQ suicide squads.  Why should it be a "standard thing" to throw away your HQs?

Yeah, I think I am going to go with 2 Drop troop Sentinels with autocannons and 2 meltaguns in the CHQ and 4 plasmas in the Plt HQ.

Are 2 sentinels with AC the best? I figure most shots would be vs the usual rear armor of 10 so I am strongly considering droping a plasma and upgrading the sentinels to Multilasers with HK missiles to give me 4 shots on the turn I drop. At BS 3 more shots are always better. What do you all think?

More evil edit: Drop a Stomie squad for 4 DT Sentinels with Multilasers! 4 scoring units with the "best" weapon in IG armory. Even if I scatter 12" I still have 36" range vs rear armor vs the 12" of the meltas.

I am so happy! I have 5 painted sentinels I haven't used much since 4th ed rapid fire came out.

Final list (until some play testing proves otherwise)
1850 Steel Legion Mech List
Mechanized
Storm Troopers
COD
Iron Discipline
Drop Troops

HQ JO CCW/BP, Vet Std Bearer, 2 Meltaguns, ID
Chim HB/ML, improved comms
Drop troop Sentinel with ML

Plt
HQ JO w/ Bolter, 3 x plasma, ID
Chim HB/ML
4 Squads: all Las/plas, Vet sgt w/ Bolter
Chim HB/ML

AF
Squad Las/plas/ vet sgt w/ bolter
Chim HB/ML

5 Deep strike suicide Storm troopers w/ 2 meltas

Leeman Russ w/ HB

Demolisher w HB/ HB sponsons

Drop troop Sentinel with ML
Drop troop Sentinel with ML
Drop troop Sentinel with ML

Given that it is mech, I'd advocate taking a pair of hellhounds ,just because they are so darned effective. If you were to drop one of the squads from the platoon and either a sentinel or the storm troopers (what will they be doing in alpha by the way?), you could afford to get the pair of HH.

cheers

Erm. The Mechanized and Drop Troops doctrine's can't be combined. If you want drop sentinels, you'll have to "make do" with two walking squads. The AF squad is fine. You could split two squads off from the platoon (552 all in) to reduce your walking units to two. Drop Mechanized, COD and Storm Troopers for Veterans and Grenadiers and you can feild the Chimeras again, but have to do without heavy weapons in those units or else take fewer chimeras OR ditch the platoon - and COD - altogether and run a half dozen mechanized Veterans and Grenadiers. On the net, that would cost you a bucket of flashlights and bodies but only half a statistical lacannon hit per turn and would not affect your plasma. If you still wanted a DS squad, you could run one Veteran unit as a suicide drop unit, putting the points saved towards a Heavy Weapons Platoon to give you a cheap push-back unit. Possibly grab Light Infantry or Jungle Fighters for the fire support squads to give you some infiltrating support. Autocannon/Jungle Fighter would make a decent combination as long as there are some woods on the table - infiltrate into cover and threaten enemy flank armour and skimmers, also decent against MEQs in cover.
You also could just forget Drop Troops and just running the stormies. If you can find the points for it, Chameleoline could be a decent doctrine. Also, I'd vote for three Basilisks over two Russ - a cheaper pie plate and when you mix with the chimeras they have lots of stuff to hide behind. If you want to find points for almost anything in the list, that's my advice and I'll stick by it. An Honorifica Imperialis on your Platoon HQ could be handy - 25 points for LD 10 - plus possibly a vox set for them and any infantry you see being out of their LD radius. You could easily get those points by cutting some veteran sergeants.
Good luck with the army!

If you're going to take a single unit of Storm Troopers, you might as well take a unit of H-Vets instead. Same points, but you get an extra BS4 Meltagun.

HQ JO CCW/BP, Vet Std Bearer, 2 Meltaguns, ID
Chim HB/ML, improved comms
Drop troop Sentinel with ML

I wouldn't bother with the Meltaguns.

Plt
HQ JO w/ Bolter, 3 x plasma, ID
Chim HB/ML

Or the Plasmas for that matter. 50 points would go a long way towards making that Russ into a second Demolisher.

4 Squads: all Las/plas, Vet sgt w/ Bolter
Chim HB/ML
AF
Squad Las/plas/ vet sgt w/ bolter
Chim HB/ML

So would the extra 35 from dumping the 5 Vet Sergeants. And you have enough Chimeras to hide your Command Sections.

5 Deep strike suicide Storm troopers w/ 2 meltas

As I said, Vets are better for the same cost.

Leeman Russ w/ HB

Nothing wrong with a Russ except for the fact that they're one of them.

Demolisher w HB/ HB sponsons

Given the type of army you're playing, you're much better served by taking Lascannon/2 Plasma Cannons than you are 3 HBs. And given that, if you want to, you can have 85 points extra, you can afford 2 Demolishers kitted out like this.

Drop troop Sentinel with ML
Drop troop Sentinel with ML
Drop troop Sentinel with ML

That's fine.

BYE

"The Mechanized and Drop Troops doctrine's can't be combined."

Why not?

BYE

If you're going to take a single unit of Storm Troopers, you might as well take a unit of H-Vets instead. Same points, but you get an extra BS4 Meltagun

> I'd love to, but Vets are "Guard Infantry" and must have a chimera, or do you mean take a HV squad in another Chimera?

I could do this with available, painted Models

Drop ST, a sentiinel, vet sgts (but I just converted 5 SL Grenade Launchers to Vet Sgts w/ bolters....)

1850 Steel Legion Mech List
Mechanized
COD
Iron Discipline
Drop Troops

HQ JO CCW/BP, Vet Std Bearer, 1 flamer, ID
Chim HB/ML, improved comms

Plt
HQ JO w/ Bolter, 4 x plasma, ID
Chim HB/ML
4 Squads: all Las/plas, Chim HB/ML

AF
Squad Las/plas/ Chim HB/ML

Leeman Russ w/ HB
Leeman Russ w/ HB
Demolisher w LC/ PC sponsons

Drop troop Sentinel with ML
Drop troop Sentinel with ML
Drop troop Sentinel with ML

PS: My Steel Legion: http://www.pbase.com/stecal/imperial_guard

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 03/08/2006 3:36 PM
"The Mechanized and Drop Troops doctrine's can't be combined."

Why not?

BYE

Ah...the ancient Tao riddle is solved. *smacks forehead* Spaced on the Codex.