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I wanted to know, is this a viable list?

HQ
Vulkan He'stan - 190
Space Marine Librarian (Terminator Armor/Storm Bolter (Force Dome, Null Zone)) = 130

HQ = 320

Troops
Scout Squad x5 (Sniper Rifles x4, Power Weapon, Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks) = 115
Tactical Sqaud x5 (Rhino) = 125

Troops = 240

Elite
Sternguard Veterans x10 (Powerfist, Combi-melta x10 (Drop Pod)) = 360
Sternguard Veterans x10 (Powerfist, Combi-melta x10 (Drop Pod)) = 360
Dreadnought (Heavy Flamer (Drop Pod)) = 150

Elites = 870

Fast Attack
Land Speeder (Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta) = 70

Fast Attack = 70

Total = 1500

Jraco wrote:I wanted to know, is this a viable list?

HQ
Vulkan He'stan - 190
Space Marine Librarian (Terminator Armor/Storm Bolter (Force Dome, Null Zone)) = 130

HQ = 320

Troops
Scout Squad x5 (Sniper Rifles x4, Power Weapon, Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks) = 115
Tactical Sqaud x5 (Rhino) = 125

Troops = 240

Elite
Sternguard Veterans x10 (Powerfist, Combi-melta x10 (Drop Pod)) = 360
Sternguard Veterans x10 (Powerfist, Combi-melta x10 (Drop Pod)) = 360
Dreadnought (Heavy Flamer (Drop Pod)) = 150

Elites = 870

Fast Attack
Land Speeder (Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta) = 70

Fast Attack = 70

Total = 1500

this seems to be a solid list no real faults i see anyway

I have been looking for a list like this for a long time. So far i have just been proxying my assault on blackreach captain as vulkan.

I would consider putting two metlas in each sternguard squad (not saying you should, just consider it regarding your local gaming scene) and take the power weapon away from the scouts and give it to the tactical marines instead. It might also be worth it to drop the camo cloaks to spread some melta bombs around (can't tell you how many times those things have won games for me).

jbsnv wrote:

this seems to be a solid list no real faults i see anyway

I disagree completely.

While I'm no expert on marines, the glaring lack of a viable scoring unit is going to hurt this list in 2/3rds of every game. A scout squad is a nice addition to an army that already has a solid backbone of full strength tactical squads (or a mix of 10-man rhino squads and 5-man razor squads). Having a grand total of 10 scoring bodies with no real combat ability in any phase of the game will really hurt.

Sure, your 20 sternguard will show up turn 1 and kill a grand total possible of 4 vehicles. Then your 720pts (not including the HQs which I assume are with them) will be within double tapping range of nearly every weapon in your opponent's army. Then you have no staying power or long term killing power.

I would strongly recommend starting the core of your list with two 10-man tactical squads in rhinos with melta/missile launcher or flamer/missile launcher (multi-melta is also an option). That'll cost you about 410-420 pts for both squads and give you 20 solid scoring bodies.

I just can't see putting half your army in front of your opponent for the opportunity to kill a small amount of tanks a good choice in list building.

If i was you I'd drop the sternguard for something that can go more than one shot. With Vulkin, you'd do better with TH/SS termies and MOAR speeders. The Salamanders' speeders with a HF/MM is one of the most versatile things in the game, esp for it's points cost. It's able to //effectively// deal with both tanks and troops, it has awesome maneuverability, it's points cost is low, it gives you a TLMM on a fast chasis, and it provides armor saturation.

No, not viable at all.

10 scoring bodies, in two squads. Players with common sense will annilhilate them in 1 turn of shooting.

Lets get down to the issue.

Your HQ, the librarian should either remove TDA, or remove Fore Dome, as they both give an invuln save.

Your troops should be 2-3 tactical squads or 2 tactical squads and scouts. If you keep your scouts, sort them out. A power weapon in a sniper unit is a bit of a joke
Tactical squads want to take full advantage of Vulkan, Flamer + Multimelta is the advised loadout.

Your elites are 100% solid. Drop your 2 sternguard squads 1st, combat squad them, and wreck 4 tanks in turn 1 If you drop TDA on your libby and keep force dome, put the libby with your sternguard.

Hope this helps

There I go, making rookie mistakes again. I took a break from Space Marines for just this reason. I have taken into account everything I have read and come up with a revision. I hope this one will fare better.

HQ
Vulkan He'stan
Space Marine Librarian (Force Dome, Null Zone)

HQ = 290

Troops
Tactical Squad x10 (Power Weapon, Flamer, Missile Launcher, Melta Bombs (Rhino)) = 225
Tactical Squad x10 (Power Weapon, Flamer, Missile Launcher, Melta Bombs (Rhino)) = 225
Scout Squad (Sniper Rifles x4, Missile Launcher, Melta Bombs, Camo Cloaks) = 105

Troops = 555

Elite
Sternguard Veterans x10 (Powerfist, Combi-melta x10, Melta Bombs (Drop Pod)) = 365
Dreadnought (Heavy Flamer (Drop Pod)) = 150

Elites = 515

Fast Attack
Land Speeder (Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta) = 70
Land Speeder (Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta) = 70

Fast Attack = 140

Total = 1500

looking 10 times better!

Be sure to combat squad your sternguard squad to maximise vehicle killing power

Here is yet another revision, because I know that there will be a lot more objective based games than annihilation games.

HQ
Vulkan He'stan

HQ = 190

Troops
Tactical Squad x10 (Power Weapon, Combi-melta, Meltagun, Multi-melta, Melta Bombs (Rhino)) = 235
Tactical Squad x10 (Power Weapon, Combi-melta, Meltagun, Multi-melta, Melta Bombs (Rhino)) = 235
Scout Squad (Sniper Rifles x3, Missile Launcher, (Sergeant Honorious/Sergeant Telion)) = 135

Troops = 605

Elite
Sternguard Veterans x5 (Powerfist, Combi-flamer, Combi-melta x4 (Drop Pod)) = 210
Sternguard Veterans x5 (Power Weapon, Combi-flamer, Combi-melta x4, Melta Bombs (Drop Pod)) = 205
Dreadnought (Heavy Flamer (Drop Pod)) = 150

Elites = 565

Fast Attack
Land Speeder (Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta) = 70
Land Speeder (Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta) = 70

Fast Attack = 140

Total = 1500

I do not really think you need the scouts at 1500 points.
2 full tacticals seem enough. You can add a lot of better things with these points

Like what? I was thinking a small, Tactical Squad in a Drop Pod for late game contesting. I think I'm the only one to ever like Scout marines for Codex Space Marines.

Well I'm going to disagree with the disagreers. Scoring units are entirely overrated. You only need to capture one objective to win a game. Denial and contesting objectives is easier to do with elite troops. Scouts can often camp and hold objectives just fine (3+ cover save... or 2+ if done right), or can be put into reserve to come on late and get objectives that way (remember you always get to place one objective yourself).

People constantly play me and tut tut about my two squads of 5 scouts and how I better hope its not an objective game or I'm done for... So far, I've done just fine. 30 Sternguard (which is what I run in my 2k list) can move a death star if needed and with all the points I'm not wasting on scoring units, I can roll their units (scoring or not).

Meanwhile I've spent 150ish points on scoring units while they're dropping 30% of their points into weaker units (except space wolves, but whatever).

Your initial list can work, you just need to be very aggresive and keep in mind how deployment and reserves will play out in the end game.

Last I checked, tabling wins every mission.

I think your list is pretty good. I think scouts are good for holding objectives but that is about it. Even then they get scared off easily. If you have TH/SS Termies I think they are super solid in a Vulkan list and also I would consider Power Fist and Combi-Flamer on your Sgt. The Terminators are the best point capture interrupt units out there and the combi flamer adds a second flamer to just tear squads to pieces with the amount of wounds that will do. I should not have to explain how useful Power Fists can be but if you are a die hard power weapon user then whatever.

Also Lobukia your little win loss ratio thing is just silly. I don't know who you are playing but they have got to suck if you have a 9-1-4 ratio with Tau. Unless they were playing Tau too or something. Man Tau are dumb.

Its a poorly thought out list. You have zero long range fire. Against a competent opponent you are going to have two drop pods come down turn 1 to (possibly) melt something, after which time they are left unsupported and will be annihilated. I just can't see the list doing well against an experienced player.

Long range firepower? I have Drop Pods for this reason. It's not like I'm playing a Tau army or a gun line of some sort. If you are going to just come in and say, this list is bad because of no long range support, enlighten me to what can be done to remedy that.
If more people would take the time to help instead of "your list is bad because" then I think a lot more people would learn from posting.
Also saying that only an incompetent player would lose to this list, along with the fact that you take at a stab at my "inexperience" is a really frustrating thing to see.

Lobukia wrote:Well I'm going to disagree with the disagreers. Scoring units are entirely overrated. You only need to capture one objective to win a game. Denial and contesting objectives is easier to do with elite troops. Scouts can often camp and hold objectives just fine (3+ cover save... or 2+ if done right), or can be put into reserve to come on late and get objectives that way (remember you always get to place one objective yourself).

People constantly play me and tut tut about my two squads of 5 scouts and how I better hope its not an objective game or I'm done for... So far, I've done just fine. 30 Sternguard (which is what I run in my 2k list) can move a death star if needed and with all the points I'm not wasting on scoring units, I can roll their units (scoring or not).

Meanwhile I've spent 150ish points on scoring units while they're dropping 30% of their points into weaker units (except space wolves, but whatever).

Your initial list can work, you just need to be very aggresive and keep in mind how deployment and reserves will play out in the end game.

Last I checked, tabling wins every mission.

Let's see...

1)Scoring units are what they are, units that score. In most competitive events multiple objectives are available and not being able to capture them severely limits the success of a list as originally posted. I would really love to see what 3+/2+ cover saves your getting with vanilla marines. Do you frequently play with fortifications/bunkers? I have rarely seen that type of terrain in any of the 6 eastern states that I play in. Unless of course you are referring to the fabled all Scout list. Also you don't always get to place objectives in a competitive setting, many RTT's don't run "out of the book" missions.

2)Tabling your opponent may indeed win the battle, but again in competitive tournaments you may be leaving secondary, tertiary and bonus points on the table. I'm not convinced that the list in it's original format is capable of tabling an opponent. How are you going to deal with a Daemon list, or a Farsight build, or Dark Eldar? The original list has no mobility and lacks support to any forward deployed units. One of the two HQ choices, the Libby, is unable to effectively support any forward-based units because of the TDA.

Jraco wrote:Long range firepower? I have Drop Pods for this reason. It's not like I'm playing a Tau army or a gun line of some sort. If you are going to just come in and say, this list is bad because of no long range support, enlighten me to what can be done to remedy that.
If more people would take the time to help instead of "your list is bad because" then I think a lot more people would learn from posting.
Also saying that only an incompetent player would lose to this list, along with the fact that you take at a stab at my "inexperience" is a really frustrating thing to see.

Mate, I think you are reading too much into my advice. I'll repeat: the logical thing to do is to add some long range fire. Alternatively, you can give your sternguard some more upclose support. I was thinking a bunch of LSS and scouts. As it is, you are going to have 10 sternguard / 5 sternguard and a dread come down totally unsupported. After the enemy loses a rhino/chimera/some bubblewrap, they will double tap 1/3 of your points into a salamander green pulp.

Jraco wrote:Long range firepower? I have Drop Pods for this reason. It's not like I'm playing a Tau army or a gun line of some sort. If you are going to just come in and say, this list is bad because of no long range support, enlighten me to what can be done to remedy that.
If more people would take the time to help instead of "your list is bad because" then I think a lot more people would learn from posting.
Also saying that only an incompetent player would lose to this list, along with the fact that you take at a stab at my "inexperience" is a really frustrating thing to see.

The lack of long range support is that once your 2 Sternguard units and Dread are deployed all you have to support them from a distance is a scout squad with a BS of 3. An experienced player will see this list and do one of two things;

1) Take their lumps knowing that you will kill at best 4 units, and maybe not even that. Once your melta has been burned what is left? The special ammo is nice but anything with a 3++ will just weather the storm and engage the Sternguard in combat where even the PF isn't that scary. 3++ saves are not hard to come by in Imperial armies save for guard, in that case you kill a couple Chimeras and a couple platoons then get gunned down by mass flashlights, autocannons, and returning melta shots. Orks/Nids will just let you kill some boyz/gaunts or a wagon/MC then mob the Sternguard with 30+ boyz/gaunts each.

2) Avoid your Sternguard. Any D/Eldar player seeing this will simply reserve and get your army on the ground then deploy away from you and pepper you with all those Strength 6/poison shots. You'll never catch them on foot so they state at range and whittle your forces down.

What you need instead is a unit or two that can deploy forward and cause some hell but you need at least one unit in the back with the ability to shoot at range beyond 24". IT will keep your opponents forces more or less "honest" when they move, they don't want to expose themselves to heavy fire at range if they can help it. It also forces the opponent to consider directing some fire at the ranged units, limiting your forward units from being concentrated upon. Now you can accomplish long range support with infantry (Devs), Dreads, and Vehicles.

Hope this helps some, it at least how I see it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

apocalypse022 wrote:I think your list is pretty good. I think scouts are good for holding objectives but that is about it. Even then they get scared off easily. If you have TH/SS Termies I think they are super solid in a Vulkan list and also I would consider Power Fist and Combi-Flamer on your Sgt. The Terminators are the best point capture interrupt units out there and the combi flamer adds a second flamer to just tear squads to pieces with the amount of wounds that will do. I should not have to explain how useful Power Fists can be but if you are a die hard power weapon user then whatever.

Also Lobukia your little win loss ratio thing is just silly. I don't know who you are playing but they have got to suck if you have a 9-1-4 ratio with Tau. Unless they were playing Tau too or something. Man Tau are dumb.

Alright I have to disagree with the Tau notion. I play Farsight Enclave myself and have a very good record with them competitively. The problem Tau have (most Xenos in fact) is that the Codex is limited in how many competitive builds are available. Imperial Codices generally do not have this problem. This issue has been going on for at least the last 12 years or so.

I think it would be better if I told everyone the units I had access to.

Hq - Vulkan, 2 Librarians, 2 Captains.

Troops - 40 Tactical Marines, 10 Scouts.

Dedicated Transports - 4 Drop Pods, 2 Rhinos, 1 Razorback.

Elites - 10 Terminators (5 TH/SS 5 Tactical), 20 Stergaurd, 5 Dreadnoughts, Techmarine.

Fast Attack - 2 Land Speeders, 1 Bike Squad, 1 Attack Bike, 5 Assault Marines.

Heavy - Land Raider Redeemer, Thunderfire Cannon.

No I cannot borrow anything and no I cannot buy anything.

Tactical termies or th/ss?

I have both types of Terminators.

Doctor33 wrote:

Lobukia wrote:Well I'm going to disagree with the disagreers. Scoring units are entirely overrated. You only need to capture one objective to win a game. Denial and contesting objectives is easier to do with elite troops. Scouts can often camp and hold objectives just fine (3+ cover save... or 2+ if done right), or can be put into reserve to come on late and get objectives that way (remember you always get to place one objective yourself).

People constantly play me and tut tut about my two squads of 5 scouts and how I better hope its not an objective game or I'm done for... So far, I've done just fine. 30 Sternguard (which is what I run in my 2k list) can move a death star if needed and with all the points I'm not wasting on scoring units, I can roll their units (scoring or not).

Meanwhile I've spent 150ish points on scoring units while they're dropping 30% of their points into weaker units (except space wolves, but whatever).

Your initial list can work, you just need to be very aggresive and keep in mind how deployment and reserves will play out in the end game.

Last I checked, tabling wins every mission.

Let's see...

1)Scoring units are what they are, units that score. In most competitive events multiple objectives are available and not being able to capture them severely limits the success of a list as originally posted. I would really love to see what 3+/2+ cover saves your getting with vanilla marines. Do you frequently play with fortifications/bunkers? I have rarely seen that type of terrain in any of the 6 eastern states that I play in. Unless of course you are referring to the fabled all Scout list. Also you don't always get to place objectives in a competitive setting, many RTT's don't run "out of the book" missions.

2)Tabling your opponent may indeed win the battle, but again in competitive tournaments you may be leaving secondary, tertiary and bonus points on the table. I'm not convinced that the list in it's original format is capable of tabling an opponent. How are you going to deal with a Daemon list, or a Farsight build, or Dark Eldar? The original list has no mobility and lacks support to any forward deployed units. One of the two HQ choices, the Libby, is unable to effectively support any forward-based units because of the TDA.

Well ok

I'm going to assume you aren't a space marine player... camo cloaks give you 3+ cover save for the scouts... a techmarine, master of the forge, or thunderfire cannon in a list can improve ruins (pretty common around here to have at least 1 of those on a map) to 3+, meaning those cloaks now give you 2+

I also never got that the OP was looking for a tournament list, or a take all comers list. It seemed to me that he was looking for a viable club list that will perform well... if I misread that, than I agree, not a great tourney list, but for club play (which around here is almost all book missions) I think it can do very well.... I would recommend some tweaks (and I did).

And why can't a libby ride in the pod with a sternguard squad? IC TDA can be in a DP for C:SM, just TDA squads cannot. On most maps around here, 48' threat diameter pretty much covers the field. I'm not saying its the best list ever, just that it "can work".




Automatically Appended Next Post:

apocalypse022 wrote:...also Lobukia your little win loss ratio thing is just silly. I don't know who you are playing but they have got to suck if you have a 9-1-4 ratio with Tau. Unless they were playing Tau too or something. Man Tau are dumb.

Why on earth would I lie about my record (not ratio) with Tau? Just to make sure you got it that's 9 wins, 1 loss, and 4 draws. I've had some ugly draws (for me) and some real ugly wins (1 kroot squad in cover capturing an objective in a corner while the other guy had lost all scoring units). But I make no apologies. A win is a win, just like a loss is a loss (play the mission if you can't table or for that matter even out kill). To be fair, I've never used Tau in a tourney, its all club play... but I'm still rather pleased with that. IIRC a Tau player just took the England GT this past time. I advertise my record, so that I can help others. I get PMs all the time for CSM and Tau players (and the occasional White Scar) on how I play and how my lists run. Posting my record invites those. Some of those people have had success, and some of the time I even get "referrals". Am I some tourney pro, no... do I feel like I can really help frustrated players hone their forces into something fun and rewarding that will get them some wins, yes I do.

and by the way, if you think 1 Shaso, 6 fire knifes (3 markers and 3 shields spread through them), 4 broadsides with 4 shields, 1 shoot and scoot rail head, 7 fire warriors, 71 kroot, and 20 kroot hounds can't mop up, well then I'll assume you've never faced them.

I would say those TH/SS Termies are great choice. From my experience those Termies can just push most units right off of an objective. I would even suggest TH on your sgt's is a good idea. Mastercrafted is cool if you have the bits.

Also Lobukia I meant no offense. Some people love their Commi Tau. That is there choice.

apocalypse022 wrote:I would say those TH/SS Termies are great choice. From my experience those Termies can just push most units right off of an objective. I would even suggest TH on your sgt's is a good idea. Mastercrafted is cool if you have the bits.

Also Lobukia I meant no offense. Some people love their Commi Tau. That is there choice.

Agreed, lots of love for the TH/SS guys (I call my squad of 6 my "problem solvers").

BTW I hate you dang SW. Doing everything we UM like to do... just better (only thing we got is ye ole Ironclad and Sternguard on you... and white scar bikes).

Well ok

I'm going to assume you aren't a space marine player... camo cloaks give you 3+ cover save for the scouts... a techmarine, master of the forge, or thunderfire cannon in a list can improve ruins (pretty common around here to have at least 1 of those on a map) to 3+, meaning those cloaks now give you 2+

I also never got that the OP was looking for a tournament list, or a take all comers list. It seemed to me that he was looking for a viable club list that will perform well... if I misread that, than I agree, not a great tourney list, but for club play (which around here is almost all book missions) I think it can do very well.... I would recommend some tweaks (and I did).

And why can't a libby ride in the pod with a sternguard squad? IC TDA can be in a DP for C:SM, just TDA squads cannot. On most maps around here, 48' threat diameter pretty much covers the field. I'm not saying its the best list ever, just that it "can work".


Actually Lobukia I do play C:SM, in fact I play Salamanders as my Chapter of choice. I do realize that Scouts get a 3+ Cover with camo cloaks and 2+ IF a Techmarine upgrades A ruin. I interpretted your 3+/2+ cover as a blanket statement for the entire army, in which case only Scouts would ever see that type of save.

No worries on the interpretation, I will nearly always take a competitive stance when looking on how to approve a list.

I do disagree with IC's wearing TDA riding in a Pod. I may have overlooked that in the vehicle description, but generally vehicles that can accomodate TDA models state it in the profile (Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Chimeras). Again I could be wrong, but I do not recall ever seeing that language in the transport capacity for a Drop Pod.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jraco wrote:I think it would be better if I told everyone the units I had access to.

Hq - Vulkan, 2 Librarians, 2 Captains.

Troops - 40 Tactical Marines, 10 Scouts.

Dedicated Transports - 4 Drop Pods, 2 Rhinos, 1 Razorback.

Elites - 10 Terminators (5 TH/SS 5 Tactical), 20 Stergaurd, 5 Dreadnoughts, Techmarine.

Fast Attack - 2 Land Speeders, 1 Bike Squad, 1 Attack Bike, 5 Assault Marines.

Heavy - Land Raider Redeemer, Thunderfire Cannon.

No I cannot borrow anything and no I cannot buy anything.

With your models available I would field something like this;

HQ
Vulkan
Librarian

Troops
Tac Squad (10) Flamer, Multimelta, Sgt PF- Drop Pod
Tac Squad (10) Flamer, Multimelta, Sgt PF- Drop Pod

Elites
Assault Terminator Squad (5) At least 3x with TH/SS
Dreadnought Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor- Drop Pod
Dreadnought Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor- Drop Pod

Heavy
Devestator Squad (5) 2x Multimelta, Sgt PS- Drop Pod


This is an all drop list and every unit has good A-T and A-I ability. There is a lack of after drop mobility so it is important to deploy so each unit is within range to support others, it is tempting to depoy around the board for objectives and the like but I strongly advise against it. Most C:SM armies work better when each unit has support from other units.

Vulkan and the Librarian attach to a Tac Squad each, do not deploy with the Terminators. The Termies can handle themselves and the lack of sweeping advance is not an advantage to either IC. Besides, both ICs help the Tac Squads more than they can help the already stout Terminators.

Dreadnoughts can be the heavy lifters against enemy vehicles, but are themselves vulnerable to A-T weapons. Best use is to bog them in with infantry where the odds of destroying them are less. Every unit is more than capable of taking down vehicles on their own, so use the Dreads for anti-infantry.

Since you have the Marine models use the remaining 20 to fill out a 5 man Dev Squad. Not sure how many Heavy Weapons you have but there are points for 2 Multimeltas in this squad, more if remove the Heavy Flamers from the Dreads. The Sgt has a PS since this unit is also coming in from a Pod it will be forward deployed and the PS comes in handy when the unit becomes an assault target.

No doubt you can move some of the wargear options around to fit your local needs, but the unit options should be fairly solid regardless of who play against.

- I would put 2 MG in each sternguard squad. That lets you combat squad out of the drop pod, then get 2 rounds of 3 MG each per sternguard squad -- which should kill 4 vehicles per turn.

- Don't put your dread in a pod -- unless thats your only physical model. A dread dropped in dies to MG shooting very, very fast. Since you need a 3rd drop pod, put your TAC squad in a pod and drop them in. That lets you objective grab as late as turn 5 too, which is nice.

- If your not dropping in your dread, swap it out for a LC/ML or dual TL AC version

- A LS storm for your scouts would do very well. I talk about that in the post below, and explain how you can use a LS storm to great advantage in today's meta.
http://the11thcompany.freeforums.org/tac-squads-alternatives-land-speeder-storm-t3581.html

- How sold are you on vulcan? The dropping sternguard trick works a lot better with Shrike and 10 fleeting, inflitrating TH/SS termies. That are puts a lot of pressure on the opponent very quickly and does what your trying to do - only better.

- You know that 10 troop models at 1500 is risky. So long as you know that its cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blacksails wrote:While I'm no expert on marines, the glaring lack of a viable scoring unit is going to hurt this list in 2/3rds of every game.

On Capture and Control and Annihilation, hes not suffering. That's 2/3 of the missions. Its only sieze ground that this list is failing.

Blacksails wrote:Sure, your 20 sternguard will show up turn 1 and kill a grand total possible of 4 vehicles. Then your 720pts (not including the HQs which I assume are with them) will be within double tapping range of nearly every weapon in your opponent's army.

You know the drop pods themselves can be used as cover for your sternguard right? Killing 20 MEQ in one turn is quite hard, even with double tapping.

Blacksails has a point though, you need something else to really hammer down this list, like 10 fleeting, inflitrating TH/SS terminators that will hit the opponent on turn 2 to distract them.

Blacksails wrote:I would strongly recommend starting the core of your list with two 10-man tactical squads in rhinos with melta/missile launcher or flamer/missile launcher (multi-melta is also an option). That'll cost you about 410-420 pts for both squads and give you 20 solid scoring bodies.

Alas, if TAC squads just did not suck that badly.

Blacksails wrote:I just can't see putting half your army in front of your opponent for the opportunity to kill a small amount of tanks a good choice in list building.

The sternguard are tougher than you give them credit. You combat squad as you leave the pods, then shoot 3 MG at a vehicle per combat squad -- resulting in 4 vehicles dead. When your shot back at, you take the wounds on the combi-meltas that have already fired. On the following turn you shoot the other 2 combi-meltas and melta gun at a new tank. This gives you up to 8 tanks you can kill in 2 turns, provided the enemy is bunched up enough.

Doctor33 wrote:

I do disagree with IC's wearing TDA riding in a Pod. I may have overlooked that in the vehicle description, but generally vehicles that can accomodate TDA models state it in the profile (Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Chimeras). Again I could be wrong, but I do not recall ever seeing that language in the transport capacity for a Drop Pod.

Dedicated Transports can only carry their squad +IC (BRB). All transports can carry infantry (BRB). Terminator Squads cannot buy a DP as a DT (Codex). Therefore, no Terminator Squads in a DP. Rhinos and Razorbacks, in their rules they state no Terminators (Codex). Land Raiders don't ever actually say they CAN carry TDA in their rules (fluff =/= rules). Nor do they need to, transports can carry infantry units. There is no reason and no rule that says TDA cannot go in a DP, while there is a rule saying it can. Why do you think DP have a capacity of 12 if not to allow that TDA IC to ride with a squad of 10 PA?

Therefore, RAW, TDA IC can ride in a DP, taking up two slots as they enter it for deployment.

Lobukia wrote:Therefore, RAW, TDA IC can ride in a DP, taking up two slots as they enter it for deployment.

This is how I read the rules as well. They are prohibited from entering rhino's specifically in the codex entry -- but it says nothing about not being able to enter a pod.