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Hi please help! At my local club I'm facing a lot of chaos marines, I use space wolves and there not getting even close.

I face definers, maulfiends, daemon princes and abidon and a scattering of normal troops. The armies usually have a combination of all.

I have tried drop trooping terminators with logan and also standing back and shooting, but the result is the same, DEFEAT!!!

The Choas SM codex is so damn good I cant go toe to toe, Before this codex logan could stand his own but in the csm codex you can have abidon or a kitted out prince which can crush anything on the battlefield and still have more wounds and be cheaper the grimnar :-( right now its defeat after defeat. so willing to try anything which might work.

we are also in a campaign so I have to stick with wolves but other than that Im open to ANY ideas.



thanks for your time and PLEASE HELP ME OUT!!!!!

Rune Priests, force weapon wounds daemons on a 2+. Avoid toys like TWC, stick to basics. GH, Long Fangs, a couple of inexpensive HQ's. Don't know what else to tell you, just remember Space Wolves don't hold much in CC against Chaos so shoot shoot shoot and shoot some more. That's the best I can offer, maybe a couple multi-melta landspeeders to take out armour.

These days i really like a full squad of Grey Hunters led by a wolf priest. You can get 2 plasma guns and 2 plasma pistols (including the Priests pistol). Thats 6 plasma shots ignoring all kinds of armour and even likely to take on vehicles.
The WP allow you to reroll any gets hot and help the snapshooting if you get charged (together with counter attack gives you a nice edge).
Only problem is you cant fit them in a transport unless you get a LR. On the other hand you can get "saga of the outflanker" with the Priest and outflank your Squad.

Hmmm, I wouldn't consider the CSM list as an overpowered list honestly. Sure, in the hands of a good player, it is competitive, but hardly overpowered. Space Wolves still has really cheap Grey hunters, drop pods, multiple rune priests and long fangs. You will likely outshoot any kind of list a chaos player can bring to the table.

Its optimising to the max, but such a space wolves list can be very deadly, and not just againt CSM but against any list.

Bring a couple of run priests, 3 long fang sqauds, an aegis defense line and fill out the rest with grey wolves in drop pods. Super shooty, and yet, and tons of very good troops who can fight and shoot well and are in enemy's face from turn 1 onwards.

Rune priests force weapon is totally worthless because they allways die before they get to strike with it.

dual lone wolf w/ termie+SS+CF+2 Fenrisian wolves is good for monster-slaying

Arjac is good at pounding ice giants (but he cannot take on abbadon i think...) remember that if you throw your hammer at a deamon prince and wound him in the shootingphase he will be init 1 for the assualt phase (time to take in the rune priest either in assault or to cast JotWW on a crippled. prince).

a tactic that has become a bit of a legend around were I live is to mount a long fang pack either with or without a wolf priest inside a rhino and have at least 2 multimeltas in there. either go strait ut alongside your hunters (they will target your fangs so your hunters will probably be spared longer) or outflank them. and keep them as a mobile (snap shooting if the rhino has moved) dual multimelta platform which gets to reroll 1s

You don't use rune priets for fighting. You keep them far away because they can cast the unlimited range living lightning. Anything that gets close, gets a Jaws in the face. If you are using your rune priests for fighting, you are doing it wrong...

Thanks Guys, great start, the problem is that anything in cc with daemon prince or abadon im going last and am probably dead. but you have given me things to try. so thank you.

However I would say the CSM codex IS very powerful when you look at the charactors which have 4 wounds base and be kitted out to the max and still be 10 points cheeper than logan grimnar with 3 wounds base who is killed before he gets to strike back!

You shoot things to death with a space wolf army. You don't assault it until its already half or almost dead from shooting. Then you rely on tons of normal hits from your grey wolves and make him fail his armor save when he gets close.

A flying daemon prince is scary in close combat, but only has toughness 5. Even your bolters can hurt it. Drop pod a full 10 man squad close to him, then rapid fire the flying prince to death. Your missile launchers also ignore his armor save. Bring the 3 long fang squads. If the flying prince shows up, he gets 15 missiles in the face. He will probably be dead after that, plus the aegis defense line quad gun will also do a number on him.

Stay back one or two turns and shoot the heck out of your opponent. You worry about objectives only from turn 3 onwards.If you have drop pods, your grey hunters can be whereever you want them anyway. And they are so cheap you can literally take 4 or 5 full squads. 50 grey hunters by themselves will give anyone headaches.

If you have multiple rune priests, 15 missile launchers, and an aegis defense line. The amount of long range shooting you can do is ridiculous.

Give your grey hunter squad plama guns. So, they drop pod next to Abaddon, or the prince, and they rapid fire not only bolters but the plasma as well. Don't just drop one squad. Drop pod two squads next to them if you can.

40 rapid fire shots can do a number on even Abaddon. Especially if 8 of those rapid fire shots are plasma shots that ignore armor save.

Not a lot of things can go toe to toe with Abaddon or a Daemon Price in close combat and win. But if you really really want to go down that route. Bring a space wolf lord, mount him on a Thunderwolf, give him storm shield and thunderhammer and puppies, then give that saga that gives him eternal warrior. You now have your own Abaddon equivalent. I think he can give even Abaddon a run for his money. They might possibly take each other out.

Pods with melta for defilers and forgefiends. Then the basics as said earlier. GH, RP, LF you dont need anyting else. I am a huge fan of wolf scouts with snipers though then you can precise shot the ICs and champions and really hurt his army.

Thank you thats very helpful!

thank you for your ideas and time

you can read up on this

http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.se/

a good article

Hi slyasr, your right it is a very good article

thanks

Noticed that it doesnt lead to the article but the page, people who follow the link have to look for the how to deal with chaos article on the page

Hell drakes are must kill. I would say top priority over anything else. I am not sure why that article said a helldrake won't do much damage...

One pass from a helldrake will reduce one squad, and then BBQ another squad (taking most of it out). Then the helldrake is in your backline. So, next turn, if he wants to take out your heavy support, he can fly over one squad of long fangs, flame BBQ another squad of long fangs. So, within 2 turns, all 3 of your long fangs squads could be decimated. If he is still around after that. Then each turn, one squad of Grey Hunters gets BBQed, while another gets vectored striked.

Let one helldrake survive until turn 6 or turn 7, and you would probably lose half of your grey hunters and all of your long fangs to it...

I would say that a unit that has the potential to take out all of your long fangs and most of your Grey Hunters should be considered a very very dangerous unit indeed!

I agree, but still think its otherwise good

I'm confused: why are you even thinking about CC? Don't do that.

15x ML Long Fangs, 2x Rune Priests (LL + JotWW & LL + MH) and then dirt cheap Grey Hunters with Las/Plas Razorbacks ought to work wonders for you.

The new CSM book is really quite ridiculous in comparison to the booms that came before it.(Games Workshops strange fixation with evil armies and escalating power in new books) But I would try a Njal Runepriest list. With 2 units of 5-8 Wolf Guard Terminators. Take 2-3 units of Long Fangs, load up on Heavy Bolters, M/L, and Lascannons. This can be devistating to the enemy. The dual Psychcic ise is very good, amd can give a huge range of opportunity for you, and loss to the enemy.

A specific tactic you might use is to punch straight in with a Land Raider Redeemer full of Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest, have the Long Fangs suppress, and put in some Thunderwolves to take out the big stuff.

I have found that when in doubt, Thunderwolves and Wolf Scouts can often be an answer. Take a large unit of Thunderwolves, load them up with Storm Shields, a Thunder Hammer(maybe 2) and a with Frost Weapons. Put a Thunderlord in the unit all geard up with the samestuff and either Saga of the Warrior Born, or Saga of the Beastslayer if going after the big stuff. I find its not worth giving him a Thunder Hammer with his higher initative. Oh and dont forget the melta bombs for the hnit.

As for Scouts, make a cheap and effective unit to infiltrate behind some tanks and jusy blow 'em up. Get some Melta bombs, and guns. As well as M/L. While the cause destruction in the back, it may buy you some time to bring around those Thunderwolves or Wolf Guard Terminators.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azazel the cat wrote:
I'm confused: why are you even thinking about CC? Don't do that.

15x ML Long Fangs, 2x Rune Priests (LL + JotWW & LL + MH) and then dirt cheap Grey Hunters with Las/Plas Razorbacks ought to work wonders for you.

This is good. Long Fangs and Rune Priests= sad Chaos Marines

With a little help from the IG, I think the Space Wolves can handle CSM just fine.

I guess to be more of help to the OP, what's the fear with CSM? Helturkeys? Special characters?

Hi guys,
before the new csm cam along I could do cc just fine with logan and his unit, I guess im now finding its difficult to adjust.

@martel really the special characters and maulers are what are giving me the biggest headache!

Well there is a whole thread about how Abbadon is about the baddest guy in the game. If they are giving you the CC blues, like your army, the CSM, the Tyranids, etc give my BA the CC blues, I suggest more dakka. I don't know the specifics of Space Wolf dakka, other than the fact sometimes you may need something beefier than a ML. Like for Abbadon.

I've only faced Maulers once with my BA, and I shot them with lascannons, so I don't really know what they do in CC. Basically, if it moved in the CSM army, I shot it so I didn't have to ask its CC stats

Lose Logan he is too expensive

overload on Long Fangs and see how that goes.