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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

It's late, I'm tired, but I find myself curious. Someone check me on this.

P1: Chaos Space Marine Bikes, as listed in the armoury, have the option of having the combi-bolter being upgraded to meltaguns, plasma guns, or flamers.

P2: Chaos characters (including independent HQs and Aspiring Champions) can select a Chaos Space Marine Bike from the Armoury.

C1: An Aspiring Champion on a bike may select a bike from the Armoury with a meltagun, instead of a combi-bolter.

C2: A Chaos Lord may select a bike from the Armoury, with a meltagun instead of a combi-bolter.

It's strange - in most cases, an upgrade character isn't allowed to carry the squad upgrade weapon. Here, though, it's the wargear option itself, i.e., the bike, which gives an option for taking a weapon upgrade (unless a later printing changed it - always an option).

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in ca
Commanding Orc Boss




SW, Ontario, Canada

That's what it says in my book.

The OTZone - A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy
doveryay, no proveryay - Russian Proverb - Trust, But Verify. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Lexington, KY

C2 is pretty obviously correct.

C1 has some issues:

Page 16, "Steeds. A model may only select a single steed"

Chaos Marine Bikes grant the Steed special rule, and bikers have the Iron Steeds special rule. To make it work you'd have to argue either:

1) Chaos Marine Bikers do not have Steeds (i.e., Iron Steeds are not Steeds)

or

2) The bike that a bike-mounted aspiring champion has is not "selected" and therefore does not prevent a second steed from being selected from the armory.

Either argument you make, the AC would have to purchase a second bike to buy the special weapon, giving you a 30 point meltagun on it.

Stop trolling us so Lowinor and I can go back to beating each other's faces in. -pretre 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Either argument you make, the AC would have to purchase a second bike to buy the special weapon, giving you a 30 point meltagun on it.
No, the bike the AC buys has an upgrade option in the wargear selection. By spending 10 points he upgrades the gun on the bike to a melta. No second bike needed.

Nothing Can Kill The Grimace

Any conversation about composition scoring on DakkaDakka is the blind leading the blind.
Or the evil leading the blind, more accurately. - xtapl 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Lexington, KY

Posted By Odd the Quiet on 03/21/2006 12:09 PM
Either argument you make, the AC would have to purchase a second bike to buy the special weapon, giving you a 30 point meltagun on it.
No, the bike the AC buys has an upgrade option in the wargear selection. By spending 10 points he upgrades the gun on the bike to a melta. No second bike needed.

Can't do that.  The AC doesn't have a Chaos Space Marine Bike from the armory, he has the Iron Steeds rule which gives him a bike and all of the trappings of it, but pretty specifically not the Chaos Space Marine Bike entry from the armory.  They aren't the same thing.

Stop trolling us so Lowinor and I can go back to beating each other's faces in. -pretre 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Right, I was mistaking AC for IC.

Nothing Can Kill The Grimace

Any conversation about composition scoring on DakkaDakka is the blind leading the blind.
Or the evil leading the blind, more accurately. - xtapl 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

Can't do that. The AC doesn't have a Chaos Space Marine Bike from the armory, he has the Iron Steeds rule which gives him a bike and all of the trappings of it, but pretty specifically not the Chaos Space Marine Bike entry from the armory. They aren't the same thing.

I guess I left out an important point. What you say is true, with respect to CSM Bikers. What I'm looking at, though, is the ruinously expensive approach of Chosen Aspiring Champions on bikes. The only way they get their bike, is by buying it from the armoury.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Lexington, KY

Yep.

A full squad of Chosen can all be upgraded to ACs, then may all buy a bike from the armory, and then may all upgrade them to meltaguns/plasmaguns/flamers.

Stop trolling us so Lowinor and I can go back to beating each other's faces in. -pretre 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Los Angeles

A full squad of Chosen can all be upgraded to ACs, then may all buy a bike from the armory, and then may all upgrade them to meltaguns/plasmaguns/flamers.


And they will be prohibitively expensive (57/57/52 pts respectively).

"The last known instance of common sense happened at a GT. A player tried to use the 'common sense' argument vs. Mauleed to justify his turbo-boosted bikes getting a saving throw vs. Psycannons. The player's resulting psychic death scream erased common sense from the minds of 40k players everywhere. " - Ozymandias 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Murfreesboro, TN

I'd love to see that across the table; every casualty nets me the price of a Rhino, and has little more survivability than a regular Marine.

As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.

But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

I'd love to see that across the table; every casualty nets me the price of a Rhino, and has little more survivability than a regular Marine.

Ask Centurian99 about his Night Lords and Chosen bikers. At T5, with a 3+ invulnerable available, they're extremely mobile, hit quite a bit harder than normal bikers (4 attacks each on the charge), and make for a nice centerpiece unit. He, at least, can use them competitively.

But we've answered my question, anyway. Much obliged, folks.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
[ARTICLE MOD]
Longtime Dakkanaut







They are expensive. I run a squad of five chosen bikes that costs almost 400 points. I only gave two of them plasma guns, however. I don't want them wiping out squads that they shoot at...just weakening them.

I also gave them all Daemon armor. Because a 2+ invulnerable save is ridiculously nifty.

To be precise, this is the squad I use:

Chosen Aspiring Champion (27), CSM Bike (20), Daemon Armor (10), Mark of Chaos Undivided (1), Skilled Rider (2) = 60 points per model. Two of the champs get both the plasma gun upgrade and a power fist. I also have been experimenting with giving them the Icon of Chaos Undivided or the Daemon Icon, just for kicks.

Basically, it gives me an expensive, but extremely durable squad that can threaten a HUGE portion of the board. In addition, combined with the squads of furies that I've got in reserve, that's a credible force that can threaten almost anything and requires the opponent to divert resources to deal with them.

"I was not making fun of you personally - I was heaping scorn on an inexcusably silly idea - a practice I shall always follow." - Lt. Colonel Dubois, Starship Troopers

Don't settle for the pewter horde! Visit http://www.bkarmypainting.com and find out how you can have a well-painted army quickly at a reasonable price. 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Murfreesboro, TN

Oh, well, with a 2+, that becomes MUCH worse... *shudder*

As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.

But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club 
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets




Da Southern New Hampshire!

Unless youre fighting against psycannons, then its just gay.

If at first you don't succeed, you fail. 
   
 
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