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2013/08/01 05:49:35
Subject: 3000 point Necron vs Tyranid video battle report
Huh, missed how close he was at the time. Most of the reason I take the prime is to give coverage to forward units, so I guess I just got distracted filming. Thanks!
2024/11/12 17:43:45
Subject: 3000 point Necron vs Tyranid video battle report
Overall it was a good report - the turns were easy to make out and the battle played out kind of like I expected it would.
I might have missed it at the end, but i'm assuming the 'nids won?
A few comments regarding strategy with the bugs:
1.) The hive tyrants should have been playing more aggressively. Not only can their s6 devourers instant-death those pesky scarab bases, but all of his shooting was focused on killing your tyrannofexes. The hive tyrants could have conceivably marched across the table and obliterated units in CC in addition to all their shooting prowess. 1a.) Psychic powers? I might have missed this one too, but broodlords and hive tyrants do really well when they swap their stock psychic powers for biomancy rolls. An Iron Arm or Endurance hive tyrant is even scarier than a standard one, and would cause even the c'tan to shake in it's necrodermis.
2.) Tervigons - I understand the urge to spawn termagants every turn, hoping to get a scuttling swarm across the table and swamp your opponent with numbers. However, as you've seen in this battle, your chances of doubling-out and going inert are quite high. You'd have done better to move/run the tervigon turn 1, then spawn on turn 2 and immediately move/shoot/assault the c'tan (with poison attacks) with those 12 gants you made. While the c'tan died in this game anyway (i'm assuming to hive guard), swamping it with gants is a very cheap and efficient way to take it out. If any survive it's explosion, they can still score objectives afterwards.
3.) Deep striking the gargoyles - Gargs are a screening unit, first and foremost. Even with both upgrades they are exceedingly cheap, and with wings they move very quickly. Deep striking them is folly for this reason - in the same time period it took them to be deep struck (turn 2) they can move, and run, to get to the enemy's DZ in the same number of turns if you deploy them. Additionally they grant cover to the rest of your army advancing behind them, making the enemy decide whether to shoot your meatshield unit (which it's designed for anyhow) or try to shoot your tougher units in the back but grant them cover saves.
4.) Trygon Prime - Would you rather assault on turn 2 with 90% probability or on turn 3 with about 66% probability? Deploy them. Tyranids excel when the enemy has so many decisions to make about which unit to shoot at, they try to shoot them all and therefore kill none. With extra threats on the board, including mr giant snake, it really does play mind games on the opponent. Not to mention, trygons and trygon primes are fleet, so the re-roll to runs and charges further gives them a good chance at locking up in assault on turn 2 if you deploy them on the line. For further protection use endurance or catalyst on them to give them a feel no pain save.
Again, you did well so many of these tips may seem unwarranted. However, 'nids are my favorite army so i wanted to pass along some things I saw that I would have done differently. if these play styles don't seem sound to you, then by all means disregard the above.
Thanks again for the video.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/01 21:21:01
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2013/08/02 06:49:52
Subject: 3000 point Necron vs Tyranid video battle report
tetrisphreak wrote: Overall it was a good report - the turns were easy to make out and the battle played out kind of like I expected it would.
I might have missed it at the end, but i'm assuming the 'nids won?
LOL, I will have to see if I missed putting that in there.
I have a pretty different playstyle from most bug players, but it has been very successful. Also, I don't see a lot of other bug players, so your comments are appreciated. I'll give my POV for the different comments, and feel free to discuss back.
1.) The hive tyrants should have been playing more aggressively. Not only can their s6 devourers instant-death those pesky scarab bases, but all of his shooting was focused on killing your tyrannofexes. The hive tyrants could have conceivably marched across the table and obliterated units in CC in addition to all their shooting prowess.
He had enough heavy weapons that he could have dropped a hive tyrant easily in the first turn. Maybe both. He shot at the Tfex because I led with them, and he knows what they can do when left alone. I typically use HT's for C&C and old adversary first and foremost - their devourers are perfect support weapons to clean up what needs cleaning while the main threats to them are eradicated. I rarely lose them, and in the late game they pretty much dominate. At 250+ points I try to keep them alive for the late game. As for CC... Micah gives everything mindshackle scarabs. I've killed enough of my own guys to ever lead with a HT against him.
1a.) Psychic powers? I might have missed this one too, but broodlords and hive tyrants do really well when they swap their stock psychic powers for biomancy rolls. An Iron Arm or Endurance hive tyrant is even scarier than a standard one, and would cause even the c'tan to shake in it's necrodermis.
I rolled jack and squat for psy powers this game. I would have done better not switching them out! A whole bunch of enfeebles and shooting attacks, many of which got denied from his tomb spiders (I think they were giving 4+). A couple of enfeebles got off. I think I had one endurance, which had little effect from my memory.
2.) Tervigons - I understand the urge to spawn termagants every turn, hoping to get a scuttling swarm across the table and swamp your opponent with numbers. However, as you've seen in this battle, your chances of doubling-out and going inert are quite high. You'd have done better to move/run the tervigon turn 1, then spawn on turn 2 and immediately move/shoot/assault the c'tan (with poison attacks) with those 12 gants you made. While the c'tan died in this game anyway (i'm assuming to hive guard), swamping it with gants is a very cheap and efficient way to take it out. If any survive it's explosion, they can still score objectives afterwards.
I've found that if I don't spawn quickly, people tend to kill the tervigons to keep them from spawning. If they do spawn out, its ok because people stop shooting at them for a few turns, by which time hopefully I've cleared most of the AP2 and 3 weapons and I have a nearly immune troop unit. Armor 3+ isn't worth much anymore, at least in the first couple of turns. If I spawn out, I typically leave the gants back to claim objectives, unless there is an immediate priority for them to screen or attack. You are right, the Ctan would have made a great target for them, but they would have probably died for the effort instead of (nearly) claiming an objective. Still, a very valid approach, I should try waiting to spawn more often. Sometimes I'll outflank with the terv if I have a hive commander in the army.
In this particular case, the gaunts would have been a lot better taking on the c'tan if only to keep him away from my terv's and tfex. Time's arrow is a gawd awful matchup for them, and only bad charges saved one of the t-fexes from that fate.
3.) Deep striking the gargoyles - Gargs are a screening unit, first and foremost. Even with both upgrades they are exceedingly cheap, and with wings they move very quickly. Deep striking them is folly for this reason - in the same time period it took them to be deep struck (turn 2) they can move, and run, to get to the enemy's DZ in the same number of turns if you deploy them. Additionally they grant cover to the rest of your army advancing behind them, making the enemy decide whether to shoot your meatshield unit (which it's designed for anyhow) or try to shoot your tougher units in the back but grant them cover saves.
I haven't used the gargoyles many times, and you are right, I tend to have better results not DS'ing them. Same with raveners. My playstyle is usually built on DS from pods to bring an assymetric threat down on turn 2, and figured I'd try it with the gargoyles again this game. I like having troops that I can put where they are needed, and can get at least one shot off before dying. Typically, one wound, 6+ armor troops get cleared off the board by enemies who would have otherwise had no effective shots, so the meatshield approach seems like just feeding kill points to the enemy. For instance, the warriors and immortals had almost nothing they could shoot at effectively in their first turn - if I had gaunts and gargoyles leading, those units would have just been easy kills for essentially idle units.
4.) Trygon Prime - Would you rather assault on turn 2 with 90% probability or on turn 3 with about 66% probability? Deploy them. Tyranids excel when the enemy has so many decisions to make about which unit to shoot at, they try to shoot them all and therefore kill none. With extra threats on the board, including mr giant snake, it really does play mind games on the opponent. Not to mention, trygons and trygon primes are fleet, so the re-roll to runs and charges further gives them a good chance at locking up in assault on turn 2 if you deploy them on the line. For further protection use endurance or catalyst on them to give them a feel no pain save.
I mainly take the primes for synapse for my deepstrike, or to take over where something got killed. As I said earlier, I find Armor 3+ essentially worthless on turn 1, when everything is still alive and capable of dropping 6 wounds or 10 wounds or even 12 wounds pretty easily on my MC's. Turn 1 is to pick out threats so that my MC's are safe, or just to be endured until the DS comes in and my enemies game plan goes to hell and they lose several squads to fresh troops. If people can see where the prime is coming from, I rarely get it into the fight that I want, and instead get it stuck in with a tarpit or some terminator squad capable of smashing it on turn 2 (or sometimes 1, if I play it really aggressively on the board).
Again, you did well so many of these tips may seem unwarranted. However, 'nids are my favorite army so i wanted to pass along some things I saw that I would have done differently. if these play styles don't seem sound to you, then by all means disregard the above.
No, I really appreciate it. I went to a shootier nid army in 5th edition, and it worked great. 6th edition required an even shootier list (missing the genestealers...). My normal tyranid playstyle is this... I can outshoot almost anything, and THEN clean up in CC. I hate watching my units die to superior long range fire, especially if they have done nothing, so my general game plan is to weather turn 1 until my DS opens the new front. My turn 2 usually brings 100 or so fresh shots to the board, sometimes over 150, usually right where I want them. Occasionally over 200. That will butcher many units out of most armies, and absolutely wreck an enemy game plan. Then I'm pretty much free to do whatever I want, because enough has gone down that even concentrated fire has a hard time killing anything.
Another effect of my playstyle is that most people forget their fear of bug assault and advance on turn 1 or 2. This is great! I almost always give up initiative to help encourage other players to come forward, spread out, and get into MY 18" range on my turn 1. I have been insanely successful this way, and my few losses still often leave me with 40%+ of my points still on the board with my enemy mostly tabled.
I don't do that every game now, because I am wanting to try more things out of the list (and the same thing all the time is boring...). But, my reliance on that playstyle still affects those games where I'm not really doing the DS. I tend to treat every unit as valuable in its own right, not as a meatshield, even when that would be perfectly valid. I should try the blue tide approach more often, just to learn a more standard playstyle.
For instance, I just can't play with well with Flyrants. Armor 3 is again worthless on turn 1, lots of skyfire out there now, and hive tyrants that rush forward aren't fullfilling their synapse role well. I mean, I completely get how they can be used effectively that way, and what else do we have against flyers, but I find it really hard to give up the durability of armor 2. It seems hard for a flyrant to earn it's points back, and their loss is huge for army control.
Thanks for your comments, they give me a lot to think about.
