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Going to be starting an escalation league pretty soon so I am trying to come up with a list I can build off of. The first point level is 500 so below is my first attempt at a 500 point list.

HQ

CCS -- Lascannon, Carapace Armour, Chimera - 145pts

Troops

Vet Squad - 3x Plasma, Lascannon, Chimera - 190pts

Vet Squad - 3x Melta, Autocannon, Chimera - 165pts

Total: 500pts

So basically I have 3 av 12 vehicles which at 500pts seems pretty good. The vets have the ability to hit from either long range or up close and do a lot of damage. The CCS will probably just hang back and try not to give up slay the warlord. I am hoping with this base I can easily build for the next point level by just adding come mech or flyers depending on what I see other people playing.

Let me know what you guys think, I have a lot of models so feel free to let me know if I should swap things out.

Owl

Vets aren't particularly good, in my experience, and while I'm unsure what guns a Chimera has I am fairly sure they don't have much firepower.
You also have 0 anti aircraft fire and only 3 guns with a range of more than 24".
I'd recommend dropping the more expensive Vet squad in exchange for a Vendetta and a cheap infantry squad. It's not exactly the most friendly move, but it gives you more anti tank, some anti air, and you aren't missing out on number of vehicles.

I'm currently playing through an escalation league with IG right now, and, first off, I know that the early games (sub 1000 pts) don't allow fliers. I don't know the rules for your league, but that seems like it's pretty standard in my experience.

Other than that, at low points levels I tend to lean towards guardsmen en masse rather than more specialized troops, just because having two squads of scoring units that are essentially normal guardsmen with BS 4 is risky. They're very squishy and if you consider the situation where the chimera is popped early, you have nearly 150 points invested in a squad that isn't mobile and isn't going to survive long in the open.

I'd drop one of the vet squads and maybe the chimera for the CCS and get more guardsmen. You can distribute all of those special weapons throughout your infantry squads making them much more durable.

I had 2 friends play each other in a 500pts per person battle and one played crons and used some lord, 2 warrior squads and a monolith. The other player ran orks with a big mek, 2 squads of shoota boys and a wagon with roller.

From the battle i learned that av14 in low games is a monster. The monolith just walked up the board blasting everything. The warriors glanced the wagon to death turn 2 and that was about game. So i recommend using a LRBT just to have cheaper armor that threatens stuff at a range. Although it can only glance other av14 armor. A demolisher will be a power house but you have to get close and that puts you in range of being assaulted. So keep vets or infantry squads close.

Hope this helps.

I'm currently playing through an escalation league with IG right now, and, first off, I know that the early games (sub 1000 pts) don't allow fliers. I don't know the rules for your league, but that seems like it's pretty standard in my experience.

This is true for my league as well, no fliers until 1000pts.

Other than that, at low points levels I tend to lean towards guardsmen en masse rather than more specialized troops

I would like to agree with you but my meta tends to favor list of DE and MEQ which means that blob armies have a tough time because they have high saves and most of the weapons shooting are at least ap 5/4. I usually have to bubble wrap troops just to keep them on the field long enough to do anything.

You also have 0 anti aircraft fire and only 3 guns with a range of more than 24".

The chimera has 2 weapons of 36" range, one at strength 5 and the other at strength 6 so I am not worried too much about range.

From the battle i learned that av14 in low games is a monster.

I feel like this is true if you face armies like Orks or Nids but in my area we see a lot more DE and Tau players who always seem to have an answer for my Russes. Although one well placed shot from a LRBT could be devastating to an opponent. I may have to reconsider taking one.

Bellow is a foot slogging list that I put together with your suggestions.

HQ

CCS - lascannon - 70 pts

Troops

PCS
Troop
Troop - autocannon
140pts


PCS
Troop
Troop - autocannon
140pts

Heavy

LRBT

I am still leaning towards my original list but I will have to think about it more. Let me know what you guys think.

Owl

Waaaghpower wrote:
Vets aren't particularly good, in my experience, and while I'm unsure what guns a Chimera has I am fairly sure they don't have much firepower.
You also have 0 anti aircraft fire and only 3 guns with a range of more than 24".
I'd recommend dropping the more expensive Vet squad in exchange for a Vendetta and a cheap infantry squad. It's not exactly the most friendly move, but it gives you more anti tank, some anti air, and you aren't missing out on number of vehicles.

I disagree with this. My chimeras with veterans work amazingly well, I had to learn how they worked though. For a long time I was losing chimeras, and the veterans inside would also perish. The answer is to leave the at the back, and kit them out, as you have, with 3x plasma, or 3x melta, plus a heavy weapon.

Your original list was the way to go! You just can't move up. You have to be very patient and let the enemy come to you. Shoot from the chimera, even the heavy weapons. At high points values, the thing to do is put Russ tanks and artillery in the back behind chimeras, that way you can get more firepower to the enemy, without having to actually go there. There's no denying that Guardsmen are fragile, they aren't meant to run in guns blazing. They do best at the back, supporting their ridiculous tanks and artillery.

That said, you can make some tweaks. Carapace armor is probably a waste at 30 pts. Drop that, and get them armed.

The codex states that the CCS cannot give orders to embarked troops, that's very clearly worded. However, they can bring a vox for 5pts, and give orders to themselves and reroll for them. That means, you're BS4 command squad could have a twin linked lascannon on nearly every turn. Pretty amazing tank sniper for only 50 pts, plus 5 for the vox, and 20 for the LC. Take 2 CCS with this gear, drive around and snipe tanks all day.

But be careful, because as always, if the enemy wants them dead, they will die. Guard are fragile.

Have fun!

 CaptObvious wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Vets aren't particularly good, in my experience, and while I'm unsure what guns a Chimera has I am fairly sure they don't have much firepower.
You also have 0 anti aircraft fire and only 3 guns with a range of more than 24".
I'd recommend dropping the more expensive Vet squad in exchange for a Vendetta and a cheap infantry squad. It's not exactly the most friendly move, but it gives you more anti tank, some anti air, and you aren't missing out on number of vehicles.

I disagree with this. My chimeras with veterans work amazingly well, I had to learn how they worked though. For a long time I was losing chimeras, and the veterans inside would also perish. The answer is to leave the at the back, and kit them out, as you have, with 3x plasma, or 3x melta, plus a heavy weapon.

Your original list was the way to go! You just can't move up. You have to be very patient and let the enemy come to you. Shoot from the chimera, even the heavy weapons. At high points values, the thing to do is put Russ tanks and artillery in the back behind chimeras, that way you can get more firepower to the enemy, without having to actually go there. There's no denying that Guardsmen are fragile, they aren't meant to run in guns blazing. They do best at the back, supporting their ridiculous tanks and artillery.

That said, you can make some tweaks. Carapace armor is probably a waste at 30 pts. Drop that, and get them armed.

The codex states that the CCS cannot give orders to embarked troops, that's very clearly worded. However, they can bring a vox for 5pts, and give orders to themselves and reroll for them. That means, you're BS4 command squad could have a twin linked lascannon on nearly every turn. Pretty amazing tank sniper for only 50 pts, plus 5 for the vox, and 20 for the LC. Take 2 CCS with this gear, drive around and snipe tanks all day.

But be careful, because as always, if the enemy wants them dead, they will die. Guard are fragile.

Have fun!

Well If the squads have Heavy weapons I wouldnt recommend driving around, yes they are twinlinked but at bs1 there going to miss even more and at a low point scale the last thing you want is to allow your opponent to get ontop of you.

 CaptObvious wrote:
The codex states that the CCS cannot give orders to embarked troops, that's very clearly worded. However, they can bring a vox for 5pts, and give orders to themselves and reroll for them.

Not if they are embarked in a Chimera, like the OP's list.

 tankboy145 wrote:
Well If the squads have Heavy weapons I wouldnt recommend driving around, yes they are twinlinked but at bs1 there going to miss even more and at a low point scale the last thing you want is to allow your opponent to get ontop of you.

So you drive when you need to drive, and you sit when you need to sit. If they're armed with 3 special weapons, they can always go 6" and shoot those, or just haul ass and shoot nothing. That's pretty much how a chimera works, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 CaptObvious wrote:
The codex states that the CCS cannot give orders to embarked troops, that's very clearly worded. However, they can bring a vox for 5pts, and give orders to themselves and reroll for them.

Not if they are embarked in a Chimera, like the OP's list.

Ok, I guess I didn't reason that the squad issuing the order from a command vehicle to themselves is considered "a squad embarked in a vehicle". They can't just look around inside the chimera and give orders?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, I wrong about that, sorry yal.

So you drive when you need to drive, and you sit when you need to sit. If they're armed with 3 special weapons, they can always go 6" and shoot those, or just haul ass and shoot nothing. That's pretty much how a chimera works, right?

This is exactly how I usually would use them. Maybe spend the first 2 turns stationary to use my longer ranged heavy weapons at full BS then when the enemies start to close in race up and shoot rapid fire.

The next question is looking to the future of this league what direction could I take the base list for the 750 pts level? Since I can't take fliers that rules out vendettas but there are a lot of other options out there. Should i steer more towards artillary or go with russes? Or do I grab more troops or fast attack choices? Post your thoughts and I will try to come up with a tentative 750 list.

Owl

CCS - lascannon - 70 pts

Troops

PCS
Troop
Troop - autocannon
140pts


PCS
Troop
Troop - autocannon
140pts

Heavy

LRBTl

I love this list. My only fear is you very much lack mobility, but that can be fine in many circumstances, it really depends on terrain, opponent etc... Maybe drop one of the troops from a PCS, add the other troop to the first PCS and give all of them autocannons, then you can take a chimera for some quicker objective grabbing/anti-bolter cover.

As for further 750 expansions, I'd go for a piece of artillery (go with something barrage, as if it's in the open it's an easy target) and a chimera with vets and special weapons like your first list had. That adds some quick objective grabbing firepower to force guys out in the open, as well as some big guns to do some MEQ killing from afar.

GrayOwl wrote:
The next question is looking to the future of this league what direction could I take the base list for the 750 pts level? Since I can't take fliers that rules out vendettas but there are a lot of other options out there.

I don't know if you're doing tailored lists of not. If you're creating a new list for each fight, you want chimeras, Russ tanks and artillery for the occasion. AP can narrow the choice down to TEQ, MEQ or GEQ, then S, range, mobility, etc.

If you're not tailoring each list, you want to cover all bases. You want something to take out an infantry mob, something for AV14, something for monstrous creatures, bikers, and so on. But in doing this, you should find the weapons that can handle a few of these roles, because having 1 of every kind of weapon will dilute the list. For instance, Melta Guns can double as anti-vehicle and anti TEQ. A Punisher Russ tank can level infantry mobs, but also wreck rhinos and take on monstrous creatures. The Manticore can crush a vehicle, but it could also take huge chunks out of a green tide of orks and lootas.

You probably want your chimeras and russ tanks ahead of your AV12 artillery pieces. If you're running a platoon, you probably want an Aegis D line, commissars, and blobs of at least 20. Though infantry hordes haven't been doing well in 6th, the people i know are running mech ork, mech BA, mech eldar, mech everything. We know a guy with an ork list that nobody can beat because it's so heavily mechanized. AV12 spam and biker spam has been getting people the results they want, when they get tired of losing swaths of useless infantry. That's what I'm seeing anyway.