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I'm sure this has been done before, but I'd really like some clarification on how this works.

IC's are not scoring units, ever.  I understand this.

Now lets say I buy my Master Commander and I buy him a Command Squad.  The Command Squad is a scoring unit, correct?

Lets say my Master Commander costs 100 Points, and the Command Squad has 9 Marines in it and costs 135 Points.  Let me put forth the following scenarios/questions:

Q1: My Master Commander and Command Squad take no wounds/casualties by the end of a Take and Hold mission and are scoring by being within 12" of the center of the table.  They then score the cost of the Command Squad Only - 135 Points, Correct?  No matter what, you never get the VP's for the commander being alive and in a scoring unit, correct?

Q2: At the end of a Take and Hold mission the Master Commander is dead, but the Marine Squad has 5 Marines Left Alive in it.  They are within 12" of the Center of the table.  Now the Original size of the Command Squad was 10 Marines since the Commander can not leave the squad, so the question is, are the still a scoring unit, scoring 135 Points?

OR

Do they count as being below half strenght (since there were only 9 guys in the command squad), and thus my opponent gets full VP's for killing 4 members of the command squad (not including the commander)?

Same questions could be asked with a Termy Command Squad, etc.

My inclination would be that in Q2 the Command Squad would still be a scoring unit and would score 135 Points for being 50% strength or above and holding the objective.

I would appreciate some enlightenment here.  Sorry for asking such a simple question but I'd like to know the answer to how this is handled before I have that situation come up in a game. 

Commander 100 points

Retinue 135 points.

You don't get VP's for having living units unless they are on an objective, otherwise they count for your opponents VP's. So Commander and > 1/2 retinue alive at the end of the game, opponent gets no VP's for that unit. If the opponent killed the retinue and the commander they would get 235 points. If that unit is within the guidelines of an objective that uses the unit cost as the value you get 135 points for the objective as a bonus. If it gives you a set amount for having a 'scoring unit' you would have to have 5 of you 9 retinue guys alive to claim it, the commander doesn't count for anything. If somehow the commander is killed and the retinue survives I have no real idea how that works, but I would guess opponent would get the 100 points for the commander. It could happen.

 

Somoene correct me if I am doing this wrong so I will know in the future.

Ok how many casualties does the command squad have to take before counting below half.

Same stats, 135 Points for 9 Man Command Squad and 100 Points for the Commander.

End of the game, there are 4 Marines in the Command Squad + the Fully alive Commander. Is the unit scoring?

The unit is not scoring because you are less than half of the retinue. The commander does not count towards scoring.

Easy way to flub it, Commander counts during the game but not after. He counts for shooting casualties and outnumbering in combat but not for points at the end of the game unless he is below half/dead in which case your opponent gets points.

So basically never take the full 9 of the command squad, only take 8. Pretty much what I wanted to know about it. Makes 4 man Termy Command Squads better than I originally thought.

Can someone also help with the same problem with taking a Blood Angels Chaplain?

Posted By Morticon on 03/30/2006 6:37 PM
Can someone also help with the same problem with taking a Blood Angels Chaplain?

Ahoj!
Works identically, the sole exception is that the cost of the DC is 0 (zero).
A scoring unit worth zero points.
Borys

Thats how ive ben playin recently. Pretty cool. I assume you take it at starting game strength (ie: inducted members included?)

Ahoj!
Starting strenght of DC with Chplain ....hmm, there are three possibilites:
a/ 3
b/ 3+d3
c/ 3+d3+x

Which of these is correct, I have no idea. I think it is b/, but the local BA players play it as c/.
Borys

Hrmmm.... so that DC unit would be pretty nasty when using two Chappys!

I think that the "strength' of the scoring unit would be through C... What I would allow is the DC player to use the model count in the DC unit from the start of the game.

I don't quite understand. Why are we trying to calculate the starting strength of a Death Company chaplain?

You get no points for killing any of the DC squad. Zip. All VPs are calculated off of how many wounds (if any) were done to the chaplain.

Since they don't really count as any VPs, they don't hold objectives or table quarters either. Hence no need to figure out how many there were originally in a squad, except as an exercise in making one's head hurt.

In missions like cleanse and secure and control, it doesn't matter what the point value of the scoring unit is, just that it's a scoring unit. You get the same points regardless.

Why does the DC not count as a scoring unit?  Unless it's mentioned in the DC entry (which could very well be, I dunno - anyone?), then they can take objectives.

I have no idea what the correct answer is to the question on how to figure when the DC drops below 50% for scoring purposes.  Also, don't squads that lose members to the DC count those losses against their scoring %?  (eg - an 8 man squad loses 2 members to the DC at the beginning of the game, bringing its number down to 6.  The opponent only has to kill 3 more models to bring the squad down to under 50% - 3 models, instead of having to reduce the squad to 2 models which would be under 50% for a normal 6 man squad)  My gut says to use the beginning strength of the DC, but I've got nothing to back it up.

The old BA 'dex doesn't address the issue either way, was there a FAQ somewhere that does?

KW

Ahoj!
" Also, don't squads that lose members to the DC count those losses against their scoring %? (eg - an 8 man squad loses 2 members to the DC at the beginning of the game, bringing its number down to 6. The opponent only has to kill 3 more models to bring the squad down to under 50% - 3 models, instead of having to reduce the squad to 2 models which would be under 50% for a normal 6 man squad)"

This was covered in Q&A in the Chapter Approved 2003, page 81 :
- "models which go off and join other units are considered casualties for the purposes of working out half strenght and VP for the unit they left."

Borys

Cool, at least they addressed that one (even though it SHOULD have gone on the newest BA FAQ... ).