jakl277 wrote:If you're wondering how to improve the daemons list take out the skullcannons and the fieds
Add soul grinder/ 2 tzeentch heralds w/ screamers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Or princes/greaters
Some of your recommendations I have experimented with until I arrived at my current list. Here are my reasons I moved away from those options:
Fiends
They provide an anti-psyker bubble since Da Boyz
GT has rules that it is -1
ld per Fiend. This means that Screamerstar that can kill 1 unit a turn is going to get to play with at best -4ld for a turn - maybe multiple turns. They are also generically useful to minimize casualties with their -5 I, provide a decent number of wounds, are very fast and with Rending can take out transports. How many armies rely on Psykers to produce off balanced overwhelming effects? These guys are obnoxious - although not as dead killy as they used to be.
Screamer
I had Screamers in the original list - unfortunately 1 S5 AP2 attack does not cut it on a
WS 3 model - I know they can be buffed with Prescience but even a full unit is throwing down 9 attacks for 7 hits, 5 wounds on T4. Not exactly overwhelming for 225 points. They do get their flybys, but with diminished
CC ability that is not nearly as devastating as it used to be.
Tzeentch Heralds
Since you are really recommending the screamers for a Death Star style unit with the Tzeentch heralds - looking at them I can bring 2 and 6 screamers for around 450 points. That semi mediocre configuration does nothing to deal with the units that really give Daemons problems - 2+ cover save assault units, 2+ cover save Aegis Defense Lines (or 4+ for that matter) or a lack of grenades across the board that REALLY adds to casualties over the course of 2 or 3 assaults. Naturally there is a chance to get Perfect Timing on the unit - but in an already random army is that really the road to rely on to dig units out of cover? Not to mention the intrinsic benefit of diffusing firepower that a Large Blast brings, since opponents tend to spread out against them.
Daemon Princes/Greater Daemons
Finally, I really think spending 250-300 points for a T5 Instant Killable 4 Wound model is crazy in a meta with massed S6/7 shooting and a lot of S10 floating around. The Greater Daemons are good, but if I want a Grimoire, then it has to go on a model that is a huge target and cannot hide the way a herald can. I actually like the Keeper the best of the Greaters since he plays a really nice role as a support unit with Telepathy - but still comes in fairly expensive.
On top of that the Khorne Herald benefits from not being a psyker - which means randomly hitting a Grey Knight Storm Raven is not going to annihilate him from Perils. This point goes back to the Screamer units suggested - which is likely to lose that Herald from a pair of Mindstrike Missiles.
Soul Grinders
I originally did have Grinders in this list - I actually did not like the way they played. They are too slow when starting on the board to get into
CC range - their shooting is good but only really effective against armies this one is already well suited to annihilate -
MEQ. That is unless I snag the torrent Weapon - but its inability to threaten immediately is a bit of a turn off on it. The option then is to Deep Strike them - which removes the threat a S8 blast provides to open vehicles early on. They are slightly better than the cannons against Vehicles - but the extra penetration dice is really made up for by removes cover and
BS 5. That is why I dropped them from the list. Survivability wise the Cannons are definitely worse, but they also shave 50 points off for additional bodies.
4500 pts