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The basic idea behind this list is for next year's Adepticon Gladiator, and any other tournament where I want to own my oponent. So if there are any errors that you see or units I should be taking feel free to coment, criticize, and generally make me cry at the verbal abuse you throw at me. But with your help, I hope to find the optimal list I can get out of this army. Thanks.

 

2000 Pts - Word Bearers Roster

1 Daemon Prince  @ 191 Pts
   Dark Apostle; Bolt Pistol (x1)
   1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
   1 Demagogue
   1 Daemonic Mutation
   1 Daemonic Steed
      1 Daemonic Resilience (rider) @ [0] Pts
   1 Daemonic Strength
   1 Furious Charge
   1 Accursed Crozius

1 Bloodthirster @ 205 Pts
   Living Icon
   1 Brass Armour of Khorne
   1 Living Icon
   1 Daemonic Visage

5 Word Bearers Chosen @ 206 Pts
   Bolt Pistol (x3); Close combat weapon (x5); Meltagun (x2)
   1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
   Infiltrate
   1 Daemon Icon
   1 Chosen Aspiring Champion
      Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Weapon (x1)
      1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
      1 Daemon Chains
      1 Infiltrate
      1 Champion is the Daemonvessel

2 Obliterators @ 140 Pts
   Body Weapons; Obliterator Weapons; Slow and Purpouseful
   1 Daemonic Armour
   1 Daemonic Aura

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
   Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
   1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
   1 Icon of Chaos

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
   Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
   1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
   1 Icon of Chaos

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
   Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
   1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
   1 Icon of Chaos

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
   Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
   1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
   1 Icon of Chaos

8 Bloodletters @ 208 Pts
  

6 Daemonettes @ 90 Pts
 

6 Daemonettes @ 90 Pts
  

1 Defiler @ 205 Pts
   Battle Cannon; Heavy Flamer; Reaper autocannon
   1 Indirect Fire
   1 Daemonic Possession
   1 Mutated Hull

1 Defiler @ 205 Pts
   Battle Cannon; Heavy Flamer; Reaper autocannon
   1 Indirect Fire
   1 Daemonic Possession
   1 Mutated Hull

Total Roster Cost: 2000

 

Overall I like the idea behind your list, but there are a few things I would consider changing:

1. Your defilers both have indirect fire and mutated hull... drop one or the other. No need to have a mutated defiler that is hiding.

2. I'd be scared that the Chosen unit being so small will be obliterated before the Thirster can pop out. I would consider making them an 8 or 10 man squad if possible. I would think 8 would give you enough wounds to ensure the Thirster pops before the Champ is killed.

3. There's no benefit to having favoured numbers in Wordbearers list, so I would actually consider adding more daemonettes at the expense of a few less letters. Maybe go for 6 Bloodletters and 2 squads of 8 Daemonettes or if you have the points, add another squad of daemonettes. I'd even consider dropping the Letters altogether for Furies. I love furies as they are cheap, hit hard and are fast as hell when they appear. I don't think your demons as is are robust enought to make a strong difference overall or survive any shooting.

4. The Apostle is very expensive. Effective, but at 10% of your list, is a very expensive character to lose to one fist. For as many points as you have in him, you could probably have a statured/speed Apostle. A statured DP with a 4+ invuln save is very tasty.

Those are just the few things I would consider changing. Overall its a good list, balanced with a lot of shooting and a hard assault element as well.

-Iron Father

I am hesitant to have a statured lord and a Greater Deamon in the army, as I think there would be to models that do the same thing. I have toyed with the Idea of him being a regular lord standing around and telling the Lascannons not to run. Or I have though of placing him on a bike with Deamon Armor and an Icon.

Deamons I am unsure of as well because, summoning isn't too reliable. So I am wondering what the best amount I should take. Also, I am thining of taking Deamonettes on Steeds for the Deamon Icon, so I have a garunteed second turn charge, but that would mean a I cut down elsewhere.

Thanks for your comments, I have a lot of discissions to make.

Here is my second list, or seond option. Tell me what you think! Thanks


2000 Pts - Word Bearers Roster

1 Dark Apostle @ 191 Pts
Dark Apostle; Bolt Pistol (x1); Twin-linked Bike Mounted Bolter (x1)
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Demagogue
1 Daemonic Strength
1 Furious Charge
1 Chaos Marine Bike
Combi-bolter
1 Personal Icon
1 Accursed Crozius

1 Bloodthirster @ 205 Pts
Living Icon
1 Brass Armour of Khorne
1 Living Icon
1 Daemonic Visage

5 Word Bearers Chosen @ 206 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x3); Close combat weapon (x5); Meltagun (x2)
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Infiltrate
1 Daemon Icon
1 Chosen Aspiring Champion
Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Weapon (x1)
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Daemon Chains
1 Infiltrate
1 Champion is the Daemonvessel

2 Obliterators @ 140 Pts
Body Weapons; Obliterator Weapons; Slow and Purpouseful
1 Daemonic Armour
1 Daemonic Aura

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Icon of Chaos

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Icon of Chaos

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Icon of Chaos

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Icon of Chaos

5 Bloodletters @ 130 Pts
1 Hellblade
1 Brass Armour of Khorne

5 Daemonettes @ 75 Pts
1 Daemonic Talons
1 Warp Scream

5 Daemonettes @ 75 Pts
1 Daemonic Talons
1 Warp Scream

6 Daemonette on Steeds @ 168 Pts
Claws and Fangs
1 Daemonic Mutation
1 Daemonic Talons
1 Warp Scream

1 Defiler @ 175 Pts
Battle Cannon; Heavy Flamer; Reaper autocannon
1 Indirect Fire
1 Daemonic Possession

1 Defiler @ 175 Pts
Battle Cannon; Heavy Flamer; Reaper autocannon
1 Indirect Fire
1 Daemonic Possession

Total Roster Cost: 2000

Couple of thoughts, for the little it's worth.

1) Non scoring units. 400 points ('thirster and lord) of non scoring stuff is not a good thing in a gladiator.

2) Non moving units. Demons will be moving, but not much else. Turn 2, if no infiltrate, your demons will be coming out across the table from your opponent. This usually means dead demons.

3) Poor icon locations. If I can finagle a dead character on a bike, then all your other demons are coming out across the battle line. See No. 2 above. If I can tie up your bike lord in combat, there may be no place for your demons to come out.

4) Think about the main army types, marines (and necrons), horde (nid and orks), and pods. You've got a solid VP list with lots of lascannons, but what about if you face IG? How do you handle all the infantry?

Overall, I think it's a pretty poor list for a gladiator. My prediction is that you'll slaughter two opponents and lose to the third (or fail to get an objective, which is the same thing in a gladiator).

Suggestions:

1) Drop the DP. Save the 200 points and put it into scoring units.
2) Unify the demons. If you take a 'Thirster, take 'letters and hounds. That gives you an icon that can summon in the opponent's table quarter.
3) Take a unit in a Rhino, 10 guys, A/C. Then take an infiltrating unit, 10 guys, A/C. No chains. Chains point out where your host is and will attract fire. Remember that in a Gladiator you exchange lists prior to the game so if you have chains, expect that unit to get hit hard with everything someone can throw at it.
4) Demons are unpredicable. It's hard to build a battle plan around them. One way to be safer is to keep icons in a rhino. A better way is to use the ability to have 9 troop choices (strength of chaos) to be more consistent in your battle plan.

So, to sum up,
Keep the 'thirster, Obliterators to 3, 4-5 squads of troops in fire support role, 4-5 troops in assault role. No demons, more maneuverability.

7 lascannons should do the trick against just about anything (minus a BioTitan).
4-5 assault squads backed up by a 'thirster will also be pretty nasty.

Your initial lists are great in simple VP games, but in a gladiator, where objectives are pretty varied, will have a great deal of trouble satisfying all the different objectives.

Again, you might refresh your thoughts on what to take based off of the last year's scenarios and think about how you'll satisfy each of the different objectives:
Adepticon Scenarios are available on the Adepticon website under the Download section

Here is a direct link to the start of the 2006 40K scenarios:
http://www.adepticon.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=17

Hope this offers some useful help and thoughts.

I know that one thing that helped me was having no really expensive units (300 was max) and my cheapest was 178 and hard to kill (scouts).

When the last winner gives you advice, you should listen. I cut doen on points for my Dark Aposle and made him the leader of the chosen squad (therefore unless they all die, he is a scoring unit). I went exclusively Bloodletters and kept the units small. I took furies, in hopes of binding them to the Deamon icon, so even if the mission doesn't have infiltrate I can summon a pack of Deamons that should be able to move fast enough. I am still not sure about this list. Thanks for all the help!


2000 Pts - Word Bearers Roster

1 Dark Apostle @ 121 Pts
Dark Apostle; Bolt Pistol (x1)
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Infiltrate
1 Accursed Crozius

6 Word Bearers Chosen @ 217 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x5); Close combat weapon (x6); Meltagun (x1)
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Infiltrate
1 Daemon Icon
1 Chosen Aspiring Champion
Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Weapon (x1)
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Daemon Chains
1 Infiltrate
1 Champion is the Daemonvessel

1 Bloodthirster @ 205 Pts
Living Icon
1 Brass Armour of Khorne
1 Living Icon
1 Daemonic Visage

2 Obliterators @ 140 Pts
Body Weapons; Obliterator Weapons; Slow and Purpouseful
1 Daemonic Armour
1 Daemonic Aura

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Icon of Chaos

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Icon of Chaos

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Icon of Chaos

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Icon of Chaos

5 Bloodletters @ 130 Pts
1 Hellblade
1 Brass Armour of Khorne

5 Bloodletters @ 130 Pts
1 Hellblade
1 Brass Armour of Khorne

5 Bloodletters @ 130 Pts
1 Hellblade
1 Brass Armour of Khorne

8 Furies @ 120 Pts
Claws and Fangs
1 Daemonic Flight

1 Defiler @ 175 Pts
Battle Cannon; Heavy Flamer; Reaper autocannon
1 Indirect Fire
1 Daemonic Possession

1 Defiler @ 175 Pts
Battle Cannon; Heavy Flamer; Reaper autocannon
1 Indirect Fire
1 Daemonic Possession

Total Roster Cost: 2003

I am of going back to the Deamon load out of the second list but keeping everything in the third list. I am still worried about the speed aspect that PapaNurgle brought up. Would it even be worth it to cut out the chosen and take bikers instead. I lose wounds but I am not dependant on Infiltration being part of the scenario. My fear is that the unit will be to small and disposable and I loose the Deamon Icon to get a quick dependable summon.

If anybody has good advice on the best Deamon set-up, that would be great. Thanks

Dude post this list on AWC my friend Chris "Rhysk" had a sick WB army. He can give you some pointers. Capt K

As a Word Bearers player myself, I can see a few things that send off warning flags when I look at your army.
1) Still no good way of getting across the board to summon demons. Infiltrate is good... when it's allowed. In a tournament setting, that may be half the time or less. I would suggest, in addition, a Rhino squad or two, or bikers.
2) Drop the icons on at least some of the lascannon squads. I tend not to give the squads that sit back and shoot icons, because I don't want my demons popping out there. Sometimes all you'll get to set up is two troops and everything else is in reserve - and demons trying to run across the board will get shot to pieces. Admittedly, since you are very much relying on the lord and retinue, and if they go you would have no other icons, that's not a bad idea.
3) I like the pared-down lord, that's how I tend to make mine, though I do tend to give him Daemonic Strength. S5 is just so much better than S4, especially for a character.
4) I'm not as big a fan of the chosen, as I think they're overpriced, but you do get the icon so maybe it's worth it. Usually, if I want a retinue, I give my lord regular marines, then he can go off on his own if need be.
5) Two defilers seems like a bit much, especially since they're no better armored than a dread, but hey, if he's shooting at them he won't be shooting at your infiltrate/lord squad, which is good.

Thanks for all the help everybody. Here is the new list I am leaning towards:

2000 Pts - Word Bearers Roster

1 Word Bearers Lieutenant @ 126 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Twin-linked Bike Mounted Bolter (x1)
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Dark Blade
1 Chaos Marine Bike
Combi-bolter
1 Personal Icon
1 Spiky Bits

3 Word Bearer Bikers @ 201 Pts
Close combat weapon (x3); Twin-linked Bike Mounted Bolter (x2); Meltagun (x1); Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Skilled Riders
1 Chaos Marine Bike
1 Icon of Chaos
1 Aspiring Champion @ [80] Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Weapon (x1); Twin-linked Bike Mounted Bolter (x1)
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Daemon Chains
1 Skilled Riders
1 Champion is the Daemonvessel
1 Chaos Marine Bike

1 Bloodthirster @ 205 Pts
Living Icon
1 Brass Armour of Khorne
1 Living Icon
1 Daemonic Visage

2 Obliterators @ 140 Pts
Body Weapons; Obliterator Weapons; Slow and Purpouseful
1 Daemonic Armour
1 Daemonic Aura

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Icon of Chaos

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Icon of Chaos

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Icon of Chaos

6 Word Bearers @ 115 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Icon of Chaos

6 Daemonettes @ 90 Pts
1 Daemonic Talons
1 Warp Scream

6 Daemonettes @ 90 Pts
1 Daemonic Talons
1 Warp Scream

6 Daemonette on Steeds @ 168 Pts
Claws and Fangs
1 Daemonic Mutation
1 Daemonic Talons
1 Warp Scream

6 Daemonette on Steeds @ 168 Pts
Claws and Fangs
1 Daemonic Mutation
1 Daemonic Talons
1 Warp Scream

1 Defiler @ 175 Pts
Battle Cannon; Heavy Flamer; Reaper autocannon
1 Indirect Fire
1 Daemonic Possession

1 Defiler @ 175 Pts
Battle Cannon; Heavy Flamer; Reaper autocannon
1 Indirect Fire
1 Daemonic Possession

with crozious its a 4+ invul, a power weapon, and also an icon so he doesnt need a personal icon on top. on a bike, i'd give him deamon armour for the 2+ invul turbo insult

also with stature, isn't he a scoring unit? as he's now counted as a monsterous creature? or am i thinking of hive tyrants as they're not IC's

After much posting on the AWC, here is the new list. Thanks everybody for your comments.



2000 Pts - Word Bearers Roster


1 Word Bearers Lieutenant @ 126 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Twin-linked Bike Mounted Bolter (x1)
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided @ [5] Pts
1 Dark Blade
1 Chaos Marine Bike
Combi-bolter
1 Personal Icon
1 Spiky Bits

6 Word Bearer Bikers @ 297 Pts
Close combat weapon (x6); Twin-linked Bike Mounted Bolter (x5); Meltagun (x1); Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Skilled Riders
1 Chaos Marine Bike
1 Icon of Chaos
1 Aspiring Champion
Bolt Pistol (x1); Powerfist (x1); Twin-linked Bike Mounted Bolter (x1)
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Skilled Riders
1 Chaos Marine Bike

1 Bloodthirster @ 205 Pts
Living Icon
1 Brass Armour of Khorne
1 Living Icon
1 Daemonic Visage

7 Word Bearers Chosen @ 238 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x6); Close combat weapon (x7); Meltagun (x1)
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Infiltrate
1 Daemon Icon
1 Chosen Aspiring Champion
Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Weapon (x1)
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided @ [1] Pts
1 Daemon Chains
1 Infiltrate
1 Champion is the Daemonvessel

6 Word Bearers @ 133 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Infiltrate
1 Icon of Chaos

6 Word Bearers @ 133 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close combat weapon (x6); Plasma Gun (x1); Lascannon; Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Infiltrate
1 Icon of Chaos

6 Daemonettes @ 90 Pts
1 Daemonic Talons
1 Warp Scream

6 Daemonettes @ 90 Pts
1 Daemonic Talons
1 Warp Scream

6 Daemonette on Steeds @ 168 Pts
Claws and Fangs
1 Daemonic Mutation
1 Daemonic Talons
1 Warp Scream

6 Word Bearers Havocs @ 168 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x3); Close combat weapon (x6); Autocannon (x3); Icon of Chaos
1 Mark of Chaos Undivided
1 Tank Hunters
1 Icon of Chaos

1 Defiler @ 175 Pts
Battle Cannon; Heavy Flamer; Reaper autocannon
1 Indirect Fire
1 Daemonic Possession

1 Defiler @ 175 Pts
Battle Cannon; Heavy Flamer; Reaper autocannon
1 Indirect Fire
1 Daemonic Possession

Total Roster Cost: 1998

I'd drop the chosen down to a regular squad. There is no reason to make a chosen unit of this configuration. B/P and CCW's with a meltagun? Are you on crack? What happens when this unit doesn't get infiltrate? it's only 8 models? Keep the bolters on them. More bodies in this squad is key. Capt K

Thats my bad, I forgot to make them bolters. Should I do two plasma instead. Probably need it for the range. And I will up the numbers.

The Havoc squad I am unsure about. Should I up the numbers there as well? Would it be worth not giving them MoCU so I can infiltrate them as well?

I am still wondering about adding Rhinos to the list. Maybe give the big squad a rhino. I am uneasy about having only one rhino in 2000 points with the amount of Lascannons on the board.

No the havoc squad is fine. But I would make the squad with the vessel as big as you can. I'd even consider lowering the other squads (not the havocs) to 5 to get that squad up to 20. The closer it is to 20 the better. Capt K