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2014/06/23 19:07:09
Subject: Surprise nids vs super eldar. 1850 points
I used to love the drop pod lists of the nids from the last codex. It just fit the storyline of assaulting a planet in preparation of devouring it. Without those wonderful drop spores however, it is much more difficult to execute. Death leaper also as one of my favorite characters fits the formation and new design I'm trying. To give them a good strong test I'm goin o play the against a spammy eldar army. Not something Inwould normally play, but something I could see meeting up with at a tournament. I'll be doing my best to use the BAO etc... Rule set.
Fast attack
Crone (played by an eldar nightwing)-155
Shrikes (3) w/barbed strangler one rending claws______105
Heavy
Mawloc__________________140
Mawloc__________________140
Biovores (2)________________80
Bastion w/comms____________95
Death leaper assassin squad 380
A large part of the idea behind this army is hat each unit if used right, will have a chance to cause damage before it is hit. Giving my army a chance even when I don't have that first turn, to still get in the first blow. Unit by unit by unit I will go through the thought process.
Flyrant: easy enough. In 7th he has become a pretty survivable warlord, negating my previous concerns when the codex dropped. Still the most viable build is double devourers, but that puts him solidly in the stay flying and shoot tanks roll that he fits in this army.
Genestealers
As I have already seeded the first turn scoring and likely objective secured advantage. There is no reason to take more then the minimum of troops. The troops that I have taken are self sufficient from synapse and can do a couple of neat tricks. If I have rogue units I can create an emergency 6" synapse. Or if they have gone to ground when absorbing fire, they can synapse themselves back to their feet and charge. Their primary use however is as "fast deploying" scorers, negating some of the speed disparity tyranids face. They can also be positioned to counter attac an enemy unt that has come to score on my side of the table.
Zoanthropes
Added synapse, warp charges, and the occasional warp lance taking out a tank. I think it's pretty easy for them to make their points back. Any additional powers can be used situationally to support my other models. Catalyst on the crone? Paroxysm on that unit with ignore cover?
Hive guard
Anti-tank specialists, I expect to largely use them in or on the bastion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but three of them should be able to fire out of a bastion, as there are enough fire points. The usual issue is that a third shooter cannot bet line of sight. Hive guard don't need line of sight. Although range for the one gun would be effected, making their already short range a little less.
Crone
Anti-air and anti-tank. With the occasional deep strike and flame a target when it suits. I have need played with the crone before, but I'm looking forward to seeing how it suits this army.
Shrikes
Fast moving anti-troop and synapse. The shrikes will either be deep striking with everyone else, giving that last bit of support to take ou a unit. Or they will be inside of the bastion creating a solid counter attack unit and synapse for models like the guard. The barbed strangler provides a dither pinning weapon to take advantage of the negative leadership modifiers throughout the army.
Mawloc.
Big blast, big creature, now scoring.
Biovores.
Often walking on from the side. Their blasts will likely not be useful first turn as there will still be too many cans in most games. Where there are good targets however, they can hide behind the bastion and lob blasts from out of sight. Or one walks to the edge of sight to ad in balistic skill.
Eldar
Farseer w/mantle, bike, super stones_____170 Warlord: ambush of blades
Guide, doom, eldtritch storm, fortune
Farseer w/bike, shard________________155
Dominate, terrify, invisibility, psychic shriek
Warlocks (5) bikes_________250
1: Enhance/drain
2: Quicken/restrain
3: Embolden/horrify
4: Enhance/drain
5: Enhance/drain
Troops
Dire avengers (5)
_____scatter serpent________185
Dire avengers (5)
_____scatter serpent________185
Jetbikes (3)_________________51
Jetbikes (3)_________________51
Jetbikes (3)_________________51
Jetbikes (3)_________________51
Fast attack
Hornet pulse lasers_____80
Hornet pulse lasers_____80
Heavy
Fire prism_________125
Lance walkers (3)___210
Farseers ad a flexibility to the force. The mantle seer as the warlord is hard to take out, and generally taking eldar or telepathy powers allow him to support the seer star and other eldar units as he zips about the field.
The second seer is aiming for invisibility to make the seer star even more sickening. Hallucination or terrify are powerful offensive second options. It pays off so much to take all your powers in one field for the free primaris power.
The Iyanden seer has the flexability to take more telepathy for that invisibility, or looking for fortune.
Daemonology:
With three farseers it is very possible to take daemonology as the situation may dictate. Against many armies having a single seer throwing out additional troops or heavier units. What will you try to deny? The invisibility, he fortune, or the spawning troops? Only against armies that modify your psykers leadership should you worry about perils.
Dire avengers and their buses.
Big solid units that can score anywhere. The serpents work well as anti air. The avengers inside are really pretty good at monster hunting.
Jetbikes
Super crazy fast scoring. Not all that durable in their minimum squad form, but they are so affordable.
Hornets
Such a bargain for opening up other tanks. Outflank and scout just makes them a must take in any tourney that allows forge world. They can flank enemy units very well and are rarely worth heavy fire from your opponent until they see how damaging they are.
Bright lance war walkers.
These are the heavy armor can openers. There for the resurgence of av 14, buildings, and even wave serpents.
Fire prism
A do everything tool that gives the army some anti hoard blasts, and even a stronger land raider killer.
I worry that this army feels so powerful according to the internees that it will provide a false sense of security, Or an over confidence.
Might change out the shuricannon serpent and avengers for a shard, bikes and another warlock in the seer star. Also think I will change the daemonology seer to a different discipline. As I was thinking t through today. Death leaper will just remove that model from the game. Potential of reducing leadership by 2-4 points with the negative leadership bubbles around the board and even worse near synapse. I takes that single psyker out of the game. Much less impact in say a daemon army, or if all the eldar psykers were taking daemonology, but with a single model like that, it exponentially increases the chances that instead of an ignorable wound from perils, the whole expensive seer unit will vanish into the warp.
Pre-game thoughts and tactics.
Spoiler:
Primary mission: Crusade
Secondary mission: Deadlock
Tyranids.
Plan for primary: if I can remove his troops and relatively few models on the board, I should be able to secure the primary mission by the end of the game. The greater challenge will be the secondary mission.
Plan for secondary:
Depending on deployment, lictors can be placed to counter claim Obie gives turn one. Possibly shrikes as well. It will be difficult to claim an equal number of objectives as the eldar from the get to. Expecting to play catch up, I can focus on the primary and eliminatin his units. Deadlock is probably the toughest mission for this army to pursue.
As far as the secondary points from the random missions. This army just gives up being able to score them on the first turn. Instead it attempts to overwhelmingly damage my opponents likely spread out units when all my creatures come in. Against the jetbikes and serpents in particular I can place lictors, the hive guard, tyrant, or stealers in a counter strike position. When jetbikes or serpent swoop in at high speed to take an objective in my deployment zone turn one. The tyranid forces will try to eat them the next turn. The bastion will likely have have the guard either in or on top of it. Stealers or shrikes are good counter attack forces from within the bastion. Turn two is the big turn for the nids as most of them will pop in. The mawlocs will likely be targeting the seer star as they have the best chance of causing damage to it. Crone and flyrants are primary anti-tank. Everything else just does its best to cause havoc.
Eldar
Plan for primary:
It will be difficult to avoid the tyranid alpha strike, but the best first turn achievement would be to destroy the bastion with its comms. The tyranids would then likely come in more spread out and easier to handle over two turns. Bright lances and the fire prism will be deployed accordingly. Bein very careful to avoid hive guard range and clumping will be a big key to weathering he storm.
Plan for secondary:
Secondary mission and opponents army really benefits the eldar in his one. Multiple invisibility spells should help them survive any counter attack. The goal will be to maintain the lead built on the first turn or two. Multiple victory point cards could put this mission out of hand by the second turn.
Psychic powers will allow this army to customize itself to fight whomever it sees. The troops are the fastest and hardiest scoring units in the game as far as I see it. The seer star will pick monsters to start, and anyone in range after that. Take objectives and kill all the bugs is the simple plan. Superior speed should let the eldar dominate this game. Is there a bad roll in telepathy? I ended up with two invisibility powers, hallucination, and even the primaris is pretty powerful. Dominate against the crone, guard, or biovores is actually pretty useful.
Deployment
Spoiler:
BAO mission number four. Scouring and modified secondary missions.
Set up is hammer and anvil.
Death leaper decided to scare the mantle farseer, hoping to get rid of the fortune and doom at some point. -3 to his leadership.
Tyranid deployment.
After all that. I re-read the missions and set up for the BAO mission four. There is no reason for the eldar to want to go first against a deep strike army with all the objectives scoring at the end of the turn.
So tyranids set up first. The bastion was placed mid way about as far back as I could get it. Slight tendency towards the left side of the field. 4" from he ruins and 5" from the back deployment zone. The goal was to try and keep out of range of the bright lance walkers. I would have to take my chances against the fire prism and hornets. Bio ores were placed behind the ruins on the left while the shrikes hid behind the bastion. Inside the bastion were the hive guard. Plan is simple. Try and weather the first turn of shooting. Two of the units are out of line of sight and one is embarked in the bastion.
I have to keep the war walkers away from scouting into range and will likely sacrifice a lictor, infiltrate it within 18" and prevent the walkers from gaining any range.
Eldar deployment.
Eldar set up split flanked around the line of sight blocking terrain in the center. Hornets were placed in the center, planning on taking pot shots at the bastion turn one. Fire prism and walkers took the left flank, while the seers and a squad of bikers set up on he right flank. Both serpents stayed mid backfield to provide more flexible redeployment, and hopefully protect them from deep strikers.
Infiltrators and scouts:
Tyranids: infiltrated a lictor directly opposite the bright lance war walkers 18" away.
Eldar: war walkers shuffled just an inch or so to get a walker closer to the bastion. Prevented from much more by the lictor. Didn't want to scout hornets as they out range everything, no reason to enter a danger zone.
Turn one
Spoiler:
Secondary objectives for the turn. Tyranids: 2, 3 Eldar: 1, 5
Tyranids turn one: tyranids shuffled a little bit. Biovores were already claiming the first objective. Lictor moved through cover 6" strait back, hoping for a good run to get into cover from the eldar forces.
Only shooting was blind bombarding by the biovores, aiming at the walkers. Nothing happened, over to the eldar.
Lictor ran into the ruins, he might survive after all.
Eldar turn one:
Fire prism shifted forward to have a clear shot at the bastion. Hornets split to either side of the center ruins for shooting at the bastion. Lance walkers moved forwards and got two into range. Seers all moved up the right flank of the board Getting ready to turbo boost to the bastion, try and pull tyranid forces into the weak side of the board. Serpents and bikers moved around to claim objectives and target enemies where they could.
The eldar psychic phase, seers power up first. My thought was fortune with five dice would force the tyranids to expend all their deny dice to void it, or allow the power through so they could try and deny invisibility. The result was a four dice success, but double six perils. The perils table was a one, either an ignorable wound or he would just be gone. With trepidation as his leadership had been lowered the mantle seer took his leadership check. And rolled an eleven. Death leaper didn't really effect it. Mantle seer vanished screaming into the warp. Tyranids got first blood and warlord for free. That hurts.
Picking themselves up the seer star used five charges to get off invisibility, which was then denied by the tyranids with all fourteen of their dice. Second attempt at invisibility fails to go off on five dice. Shrouding goes off no other psychic powers seem worth the effort of casting with nobody in range.
Shooting confines to show the eldar first turn luck. Fire prism misses its one shot at the bastion. Lance walkers only manage a single glance. Hornets manage two more glances, bt the building still stands with one hull point left. Serpents grow their shields and scatter lasers at the lictor, but due to going to ground and amazing armor saves/low shield rolls.
Seer star boosts to right in front of the bastion. Planning on assaulting units and clearing out the nid backfield. Or pull the tyranids back into their deployment zone.
Turn one wrap up:
Well the tyranids feel pretty good. The enemy warlord killed himself, the seer star is on my door step, but I think I have the tools to tie it up and neutralize it for a couple of turns at least. Lots of big monsters should be coming in next turn. I think if I can focus on cracking open the transports and hitting the hornets, the nids may be in a position to take control of the game. Only scores one secondary point, but I expected them to be behind at the start. Attempting to keep the number two objective would have been nearly impossible.
End of the eldar turn, no kills, but well set up for the tyranid counter attack. There are no super good targets for the mawlocs and the tanks are fairly well protected. The hornets are the farthest out in the open, but if they get focused on, there is plenty of firepower to knock out whatever attacked them. Three further squads of jet bikes should be surprisingly effective against monstrous creatures.
Turn two
Spoiler:
Tyranid turn two:
Rolled for reserves and, thanks to the comms tower, everything came in except for one squad of stealers and death leaper. I started off with the mawlocs. For a moment I considered using one on the seer star, but looking at all the other units in the area, including the incoming zoanthropes and two FMCS. I decided to send both mawlocs and most of the lictors to the other side of the table. One biker was eaten by a mawloc in the right corner behind ruins. He other scattered far from its target and popped up as a big target for the eldar fire base. Two lictors came in next to the right wing hornet. He other two popped into the left side ruins with range on the second hornet. Stealers came in near the mawloc and fire prism. Horrify does nothing around these bikes.
Zoanthropes walked out on either side of the bastion. Hive guard came down in front and the shrikes moved around the side to set up a big charge on the seer star.
Psychic phase for the nids was terrible. Even without the third seer, the eldar had tons of dice. Psychic scream was nullified, both warp blasts were nullified, and and the one attempt by the brood lord to make synapse was denied. Seer star having a 4+ roll on the denies targeting them was impossible to get through.
Lictors near the right side hornet open fire with flesh hooks. Expecting it wouldn't do much, decided not to jink. First lictor hit both times and scored a glance on the rear armor. Second one fired. Did jink this time, scored a pen and a glance on front armor. Avoided the pen, but wrecked by the glance anyway.
Hive guard, shrikes, zoats, and tyrant all opened up on the seer star, and did nothing. Scored half a dozen wounds, but couldn't get through the fortuned warlocks.
The two lictors who had popped up behind the second hornet opened fire and what glances they managed were jinked away.
The biovores fake a charge, seer star chooses not to over watch them. Hive guard charge and sustain no wounds from over watch. Shrikes and the original lictor join the fun. (He had recovered from Go to ground when the zoanthrope came on the board. This first turn of attack managed to kill two warlocks, one before he had a chance to swing. Two shrikes and a hive guard sustained wounds but not enough to kill them. Fearless prevented a leadership test.
Eldar turn two:
I now understand the whole need for baron sathonyx. Hit and run would be really nice right now. That battle should be won in a
Turn or two by the eldar. So the primary focus is the eldar side of the field. Kill he mawlocs before they can take out the serpents.
Then kill off the genestealers and lictors as able. Fire prism pulls away from the stealers and lines up with a shot at them or any number of targets.
In the eldar psychic phase, the farseers get invisibility off, (first one was denied). Remaining various dice increase the eldars weapon skill, and reduce the tyranids weapon skill.
Serpents, war walkers and dire avengers combine to take down one of the mawlocs.
The second one takes only a single wound from three bike squads and a squad of dire avengers. The jet bikes near the lictor fire, but only manage a single wound due to the lictor going to ground.
In the assault phase, the battle at the bastion continues. Tyranids land a couple of lucky hits, but either fail to wound, or saves are made. Eldar return the attacks, hitting first mostly. They manage to wound one a second hive guard, as well as kill a warrior, and wound the other two to only one remaining each. Fearless is the only thing that keeps the nids in the battle. Lictor hit and runs out of the fight.
Turn two wrap up:
Tyranids: Seer star is doing damage, but is still tied up. I'm going to throw a zoanthrope into the fight and hope it holds him up for an additional turn. The battle at the other side of the table is still up in the air, depends on how much the flyers can impact next turn.
Eldar wrap up:
Seers are acting as one would expect them to, landing five wounds on the shrikes, and one on a hive guard. Once one of the units is down, the rest should fall quickly. Even with one serpent firing snap shots, they were able to take out a mawloc, the jet bikes are dispersed in a protective perimeter, should help prevent the serpents from taking damage.
Turn three
Spoiler:
Tyranid turn three:
Eldar turn three:
Turn four
Spoiler:
Tyranid turn four:
Turn five
Spoiler:
This message was edited 18 times. Last update was at 2014/07/14 02:08:21
~seapheonix
2014/06/25 16:54:52
Subject: Surprise nids vs super eldar. 1850 points
I think I have some obvious bias in hoping the tyranids manage a win in this one. So I'm going to go turn by turn and let you the Dakkanauts help me stay impartial and properly strategic with the eldar. Eldar have one the roll of to see who goes first. Should they show their hand and take advantage of the first turn to garner the secondary points while they can. Or give the nids first turn, making their short range useless to causing any damage ten one? Also giving eldar that last turn seize of the objectives?
I myself am leanin towards the eldar going first. That would allow them to take the first turn objectives for secondary and then shift wherever they chose in the second turn before the tyranids arrive. Allowing the tyranids the final turn for the primary will be mitigated by objective secured troops and a confidence that there will be few tyranids left on the board to contest.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/25 20:48:16
~seapheonix
2014/06/25 22:40:59
Subject: Surprise nids vs super eldar. 1850 points
Serpent shield does ignore cover, but he only hit once with that. Rolled a two for one shield and a one with the other. One wound caused by a shield, two others saved. I expected the lictor to be so much dust.
Ghost helm only prevents a wound. Not be new effects of perils.
~seapheonix
2014/07/11 02:47:07
Subject: Surprise nids vs super eldar. 1850 points
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