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How does the CIB fare statistically, against the dreaded MEq?

The most likely location seems to be the Shas'el with TM, who will have BS5.

CIB : 5 shots, 4.17 hits, 1/6 wound with a save, 1/6 wound with no save.  Total = .93 MEq = .062 MEq/pt
PR (Rapid Fire):  2 shots, 1.67 his, 1.39 wounds with no save.  Total = 1.39 MEq = .0695 MEq/pt

The Plasma Rifle seems pretty clearly better, especially on an HQ character, where 5 points here and there is less relevant.  There's some odd range bands as well, with the CIB getting better from 12-18", and the PR better 18-24".  Also, the Plasma rifle threatens light vehicles, while the CIB does not.

I can't really see any reason to take a CIB at this point.  Am I missing something?

I don't think so. As far as I can tell, it's for Hordes. That's about it. The AP1 business is what makes it passable against MEQs, but it's really for Gaunts and such. Torgoch is taking one in his 1500 pt list just to see how it fares.

But I'm with you. I really don't know why anyone would take it. Maybe if you face a lot of Nids in your area. The AP4 can threaten Genestealers and even Warriors. It really only seems to come into its own against Nids.

One attraction is the fact that you do get an extra six inches of range to use the CIB to its full effect. Sometimes 12" is just too close.

Ezz

One of my favourite configs right now is a Shas'el w/ CIB, PR, TA, MT. Highly flexible with a good punch against all infantry. and if you have 27pts left lying around upgrade him to a Shas'O and give him a MP instead of the TA, this makes him useful against everything from a gaunt to the Falcon.

And as to the CIB, it is really good, but not necessary. When it comes to the squeeze I usually drop it in favour of the Fireknife config.

CIB needs to be mixed with burst cannon or maybe a flamer, but not plasma rifle. It is an anti-horde gun and so should be deployed with other anti horde guns. It needs targeter and multitracker as per usual. This gives you a commander with 8x anti horde shots. However Tau are not short of anti horde fireopower, massed pulse rifles will do.

If you really want a funky anti-horde weapon try airburst frag. Give it to a Shas'vre in a team along with a target lock. As a guess weapon the shot has to go somewhere and should eat up bunched horde behind cover quite nicely.

Your comparing it only to the plasma? why?

Oh and only to plasma IN rapid fire range no less! turn 1 you will not be in rapid fire range, turn 2 you could already be, but not always, sometimes you might never get into rapid fire range.

Ok so the plasma is better, great, take the plasma, I know I will on both my HQ suits.....then what?
You cannot take 2 plasmas, what will the 2nd weapon be? Most will take the missile or fusion.

Neither fares nearly aswell against meqs, terminators, TMCs, aspects.........guardsmen.......alot of things, as the CIB

Why wouldnt I take it on my HQ?

Personally going with Plasma, CIB, vectered thrusters, stims, multitracker on my Shaso.

Most effective shooting config I can think of and with a 3+ save with feel no pain I think he should be able to tie up the average squad rather well.

I would take it on my Shas'el aswell if only I could take 2 CIBs, much rather that weapon to the fusion and missiles are fine in the elite slots.

The reason people take the CIB is that CIB/plas does better against MEQs than fireknife does.

CIB: 5(5/6*(1/6*1/3+1/6)) = .9259 unsaved wounds per shooting phase
MP: 2(5/6*5/6*1/3) = .4630 unsaved wounds per shooting phase

Against MEQs in 4+ cover:

CIB: 5(5/6*(1/6*1/3+1/6*1/2)) = .4630 unsaved wounds per shooting phase
MP: same as above

So if you can catch marines out of cover, the CIB/PR will kill more marines than firekinfe will. The only other factor coming into this is range, as the MP will obviously be better at >18" as it gets 2 shots where the CIB gets none.

Of course price comes into it too; you might be unwilling to spend so many points on the off chance that you will be able to get at marines that aren't in cover.

I agreewith Phryxis. As the Alpha weapon on a crisis suit I think it is probably inferior to the Plasma Rifle. But it should be, it is less expensive. As a Beta weapon, it is a decent thing to take since we can't take two plasma rifles. It does suffer from the limitation that it is a anti-hoard weapon however, in an army that can effectively purchase a str 5 shot for about 10 pts a pop.

The Fireknife config still has a massive range increment on it that the CIB/PR does not. Essentially it can also pop light/mid vehicles and high toughness opponents, another thing that the CIB is ok at.

In the end I'm underwhelmed by the CIB. While I will continue to experiement with it, I do not expect anything.

I personally use a PR/CIB combo on an 'el as my only HQ choice, the math behind CIB/PR for Termi/MEQ popping is better than the "fireknife" combo and I prefer to give my opponent as many chances as possible to fail armor saves.

I use a PR/MP/CIB/HWMT config on my Shas'O. It's out of style now with the popularity of the PR/MP/TA/HWMT 'El, which I use as well, but it still serves its purpose. There's not much I can use with 15 points in my 1850 list anyway other than perhaps buying another seeker missile (yay) and I do prefer the utilitarian nature of the thing. The rest of my army list sees less standard weapons, as I've switched the stealth horde to a stealth/crisis combo and taken out one railhead for a BASS, so I could use the additional antihorde firepower anyway.

Another advantage of the CIB is the fact it can wound any toughness enemy when you roll a '6' to wound, at AP 1.

Another advantage of the CIB is the fact it can wound any toughness enemy when you roll a '6' to wound, at AP 1.

You're confused. Read it again. All it says is that it can count as AP 1 against anything. The toughness thing is meaningless.

(Pg 26) "...Any rolls to wound of a 6 count as AP1, regardless of the target's toughness"

Reading it seems to suggest that, if you are able to roll a 6 on a 'to wound' roll, you wound the target with an AP 1 shot 'regardless of its toughness' (Much like some weapons that wound on a 2+, 4+ regardless of the target's toughness), especially since toughness has no pertinence to a target's armor save.

So, you could shoot a Wraithlord with a CIB, and you could roll to wound, and if you manage to get a "6" you wound it with an AP 1 shot.

I apologize if I'm wrong, but the RAW seems to make it pretty clear that the CIB would wound anything regardless of its toughness at AP 1 if you can roll a 6 on 'to wound'.

What part of "Any rolls to wound of a 6 count as AP 1, regardless of the target's toughness" references wounding?

Absolutely no part of it. The RAW say that you get AP1 on a to wound roll of 6. They also say that the target's toughness is irrelevant. They say nothing about wounding itself.

We've been through this at least once. It's back a few pages. I might be able to find it.

Here's one thread that discusses it.  There's another one somewhere.

http://dakkadakka.com/Default.aspx?tabid=93&view=topic&forumid=15&postid=50530

While the writing of rules suggests to me that my idea is right, I'll play it as '6' only means an AP1 hit until a FAQ is released clarifying it (If ever).

Whats the difference is there any T7 anymore? A tooled up Carnifex is all I can think of. Even the Great Unclean one is currently T6 and can be wounded by S3 on a 6.

I think GW are trying to imply CIB has no value against vehicles on a 'wound' roll of 6.

The ALMIGHTY talos is also T7