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in the last few few weeks I've read some interresting fluff in several books like Codex Necrons and the Inquisitor rulebook and I was thinking where would all this lead too.
in the 4. edition there haven't been any big changes in the fluff, besides that pretty much everythin seems to be more dangerous then before.
but where does that lead. should't there be some changes.
In the Inquisitor book I've read about some guys who are planning to resurect the emporer. than, there was always fluff about the Space Marine Overlords (Primarchs I think) would come back one day to save the Empire.
I mean it seems that everything is closing in on Terra. Tyranids, Chaos, Orks, not to mention this whole Dragon/Malall/Machine-God thing.
so wouldn't it be time that the great Showdown is coming up? with all new overpowered special characters like Leman Russ and Abbadon finallly as Demon Prince. not tho forget Ghazkull and a probably C'Tan-corrupted O'Shovah.
and yes, the 'Nids, almost forgot them.

what do you think about that?

Advancing the storyline would be too much like a good thing and everyone knows thats not likely to happen to drastically.  GW may feed us a bone every now and then on new fluff but nothing really like a sweeping change - like the Emperor reincarnated.

They won't do that, If they where logic the Imperium would have been overrun a long time ago by all its enemies. If the imperium would die about 6 codexes end model ranges would not be used anymore. It would cost them alot money

Not if done properly. Instead of the Imperium being destroyed reflect Late Roman Empire. The Imperium is split into the old Imperium, with some splinter realms-aka non-Imperial human worlds. Here's some of the cornucopia of ideas:

-Independent forgeworlds
-Competing imperiums (like competing popes). All represent the true emperor's will against the other "heretics" and could explain the marine vs. marine conflicts in 90% of gaming.
-Human federations. Some with more tech than the Imperium (or different), some allied with xenos.

Humans wouldn't warp-travel much if that happened; they all depend on the Emperor and the Astronomicon.

I guess that depends on the look each faction has on the emporer. let's assume for a moment that he would reincarnate: would he be allright with the fact that he was worshipped as a total overpower God-being? the "normal" humans in the Empire see him like that, but for the Space Marines he is not a god, but a human with superpowers like them. maybe there would be war among the Space Marines. Space Wolfs and Dark Angels hate each other anyway (btw. why?), and there are a lot of "slightly" "different" chapters. Vampire Marines for example. so even among the Chapters, there's more than enough reason for them to fight each other.
not to mention the inner conflicts in the Inquisition.

Yes thats what the High Lords of Terra want you to believe

Actually navigators were around before the beacon.

 

what beacon. I'm not sure I'm getting what you're trying to tell me

The Emperor is only mostly dead. His psychic presence is still there in his near-dead but stasis-ed body. That psychic presence is so strong that it can be felt by psychics all over the galaxy. And that is how Imperial starships navigate. Each ship has a psycher on board who feels where the Emperor is and therefore where Terra is, and then figure out where they are and where they're going in relation to that. So the psycher is the compass, and the emperor is magnetic north, basically.

okay, so is actually isn't completly dead yet. wow, I always thought they're worshiupping a corpse

They are. His body is dead, but his spirit is still tied to it.

I can see very little changing. Although the Imperium is constantly in peril, it's still strong enough to deal with nearly everything that has been thrown at it. It is, after all, the most powerful empire in the galaxy ever, and that, presumably, includes the Old Ones and the Necrons.

What people often ignore is progress by Imperials.
The 'Nids will cause problems, but nothing so major that the Imperium can't handle it. Even with Ghazgkhull about, the Orks are unlikely to become much more organised. The Eldar may see a rise in power with the return of Altansar (sp?), which ties them to a more powerful, yet darker, past. The Necrons are quite dangerous, but seeings as they are more interested in the destruction of life, rather than territorial expansion, the Imperium can deal with it: the Imperium has a lot of bodies at it's disposal. However, the Necrons may migrate to worlds stripped by the 'Nids, securing them larger spheres of influence in terms of geography.

What the Imperium achieves is the deciding factor, in my opinion. Maybe they will explore the Eastern Fringe and the Halo stars, discovering new stuff (I use the term loosely; I'm not sure what 'stuff' might turn up) and expand the Empire.

The background will never signifigantly change because it is a *background* for your games. Advancing the storyline isn't the goal, creating a unique universe is.

Any sort of radical change would have a dramatic effect on the way the armies are organized in the game. . .something that isn't really feasible to do with each army being changed only when new codexes come out.

So while it is fun to speculate on what "could happen" we all have to just realize that nothing but small changes to the background are ever going to happen.

I'm with yakface. Nothing major is going to change. They may run some campaigns and say "ok, this forgeworld has been overrun now, this tank has become rare" or "The orks are in a better position to invade Earth now" but nothing will ever be done for the orks to actually invade Earth.

Besides, lets remember that games do not necessarily take place in the "present" date. They could be in the Horus Heresy, 2nd Armageddon war, Age of Apostasy or whatever.

Im with Yakface and Born Again. GW is a business first so they want to keep as many things going as they possibly can.

On another note I remember reading somewhere before the Eye of Terror campaign that new stuff was about to happen but it depended on the outcome of the campaign. If the Imperium won(which it didn't) there was going to be crusade after crusade into the Eye of Terror and supposedly there was talk of bringing back the Space Marine legions. Since Chaos won that campaign nothing really changed although the Imperium is supposedly at a big disadvantage becuase of all the Chaos fighters coming out of the EoT. Apparently Cadia is not as important as they made it out to be.

It goes without saying thar nothing too major will happen to affect the balance. My comment is trying to point out that GW have added quite a lot to non-human races by tying them into a storyline, as opposed to just writing them into the background, creating a sense of progress. We've seen the 'Nids moving into our galaxy, the Necrons awakening and the Tau Empire actually begin. Come to think of it, that means a lot has changed.
The same cannot be said of the Imperium. There's no way that it would be purely reactionary to the events of the galaxy, it should acually be one of the biggest movers-&-shakers out there.

okay, I know there's not really a chance GW would ever do this, but I still find the question quite intersting. how could the galaxy change, if there was really a fluff change?

As stated in the "Worst threat to the Empire" thread, all manner of things. 'Nids eating everybody up. Necrons and C'Tan continuing with their plan, Chaos getting a bigger piece of the galatic pie. Everything is feasible.
What I'd like to see though is the Imperium fall apart a bit more. I'm not sure how it'd work in game terms, but to me the idea of Cadia being ravaged in EoT is a good one. The fluff is full of threats of the Imperium's destruction (qoutes like "A terrible darkness is descending.." or "And they whisper that he will one day take his revenge" or whatever), but stuff like that makes it a bit more obvious. If the Imperium has to lose a few more worlds to make things more exciting, I'd be in favour of it.
Realistically though, no matter how much the fluff changes I doubt we're ever gonna see any real impact in game terms.

I'm of the opposite opinion to Born Again. There are far too mny instances of Imperial worlds being lost in wars, failing to contact the Imperium then turning out to be dead, or expeditions disappearing. As we have it now, the Imperium currently finds itself in an unfair stalemate, where the deal is you can pretty much remain stable, as long as we can syphon(sp?) off bits each time a new Xenos Codex comes out. If it's an Imperial Codex, they only push back aliens or reconquer lost worlds.
It would be awesome if the Imperium made a concerted effort to expand, even if it was just a couple of systems. The Imperium would seem a more fresh, exciting place, and to see Humanity actually start to flourish without the guidance of the Emperor and his Primarchs would be totally different to any of the story lines introduced so far. (But it wouldn't actually affect the 40k background too badly.)

I'm with Jimb.

I still think you can have a "gothic darkness" (tm) in the far future if the Imperium made some gains. If nothing else it would be change of pace.

It would be fun to have the Imperium invade the Eye of Terror a bit. It would be fun to have the Imperium find a Craftworld and besiege it. It would be fun if the Imperium stormed and destroyed a Necron Tomb World.

It would be fun if some of the Xenos turned on each other in a big way. Like Tau had to stop invading Imperial Space because of a massive Ork and Tyranid invasion, or Necrons went after their true foe: Chaos.


Any and all of those would be far more fresh and interesting than the Imperium losing yet another world to 'X' enemy force.

Posted By yakface on 04/28/2006 9:34 AM

I'm with Jimb.

I still think you can have a "gothic darkness" (tm) in the far future if the Imperium made some gains. If nothing else it would be change of pace.

It would be fun to have the Imperium invade the Eye of Terror a bit. It would be fun to have the Imperium find a Craftworld and besiege it. It would be fun if the Imperium stormed and destroyed a Necron Tomb World.

It would be fun if some of the Xenos turned on each other in a big way. Like Tau had to stop invading Imperial Space because of a massive Ork and Tyranid invasion, or Necrons went after their true foe: Chaos.


Any and all of those would be far more fresh and interesting than the Imperium losing yet another world to 'X' enemy force.

 

I am in complete agreement.  The closest to that has been the Nids being diverted into Ork space.  A push in fluff in that perspective andf/or push on the Tau response would be nice as well (Tau are also mentioned in the Nid codex so they have had at least some contact with them).

 

As the Imperium is so huge, there is plenty of justification for Imperial expansion.  A pefect lead in to codex Rogue Trader Fleets or such.  The whole concept of the Imperium is brutal, evil, Baroque (vet dread Gothic my keister their moving towards Roccoco in a big way), getting smashed and have no chance against INSERT XENOS CODEX HERE has gotten tired.

 

Lets see some of the Imperium (not chapter cleansing INSERT PLANET HERE) dropping some nice crusades, even if its just to make "what was ours ours again!" I can count EOT, Tau areas, orks, some nice former forgeworlds eaten by Nids.

 

In short there is lots of opportunity here to expand the universe without impacting current codexes and rules.

They could even avoid infringing on current fluff by heading out into the Halo Stars, Ghoul Stars or the Eastern Fringe. These are all unexplored areas but they needn't be any different to the rest of the galaxy. It would be nice to see some exploration.

Jon Barnes

and it would be a great opportunity to bring in more alien races. not as an entire army, but maybe as mercenaries. something like those two albion guys

Yeah, on retrospect I can see what you mean jlmb. My comment was coming from never having played with an Imperial army! But it would be just as good to see some expansion by the Imperium. Whoever's doing it, it'd just be good to some something happening on a big scale.

I really like to see Tyranids are stopped by Ultra Orks.

now, that's a BIG buffet

okay, now let's get interesting. some things that could happen (but never will, I know, but hell, I write it anyway)
-the Ultramarines realize that the current Imperial Government just doesn't work right. so they declare themself and the Magragge Sytem independant
-the Thorians find a way to bring the Emporer back to life
-Abbadon Finally gets Demon Status
-the Dragon awakes, and takes Control of Mars. (but Techpriest in the rest of the galaxy are still fine)
-the 4th C'Tan (forgot the name) wakes up and takes control of the Tyranid Hive Fleet
-Tau develop Warp Technology and become an actual Threat
-Gazhkull and Nazdreg Team-Up again and assemble a new bigger Ork Force and move towards Terra
-Eldar are still dying...

-the Ultramarines realize that the current Imperial Government just doesn't work right. so they declare themself and the Magragge Sytem independant

-I think the Imperium would accept it.

-the Thorians find a way to bring the Emporer back to life

-The Emperor is impossible to revive. The Thorians are destroyed because of their crazy beliefs.

-Abbadon Finally gets Demon Status

-He would refuse it because he is too proud. Abbadon (IMO) feels anything hecan't do as a man is wasted. He's seen how the Daemon Primarch's have let go of their temporal power.

-the Dragon awakes, and takes Control of Mars. (but Techpriest in the rest of the galaxy are still fine)

-Unlikely. The Machine God is the ultimate 40k myth.

-the 4th C'Tan (forgot the name) wakes up and takes control of the Tyranid Hive Fleet.

-Cool. I like the idea of someone beingin control of the 'Nids. However, planets they strike are found at random. When they become a tactical force, they miss out on the devastation of systems, which so many people fear.

-Tau develop Warp Technology and become an actual Threat.

-Too good to be true. It's about damn time someone posed a competitive thrat to the Imperium.

-Gazhkull and Nazdreg Team-Up again and assemble a new bigger Ork Force and move towards Terra

-It would fall to pieces. Nazdreg is a rich so-&-so, and Ghazkghull is a lad. it's like combingin Eastenders and the OC.

-Eldar are still dying...

-Oh well, but Eldar in acendy(sp?) would be fairly funky.

How about if a second Tyranid Hive Fleet arrived and they started to fight each other over who gets to eat this galaxy. . .


That would be different and interesting.

It's always been assumed Leviathan was moving from below the galactic plane in a pincer manouevre, working with Behemoth and Kraken (both out of the picture, though splinter fleets still pose a threat). However, assume they met up and decided they didn't like each other? There's always one slice of pizza left for people to fight over...

well in that case (assuming 'Nids are all controled by one Overmind) I guess we would have "natural selection"

and I didn't know the Thorians were destroyed. didn't they just get an Inqisitor Sourcebook a few months ago?