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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

UNIT SUMMARIES

Skitarii

Skitarii Rangers
Spoiler:

Best in 5 man units kept in cover on objectives, or stalking the battlefield with arc rifles. A ratio of 2 Vanguards for 1 Rangers is widely considered as the best ratio, with the Vanguards going in the open field more often. Using a squad of 5 with 2 Arc Rifles is effective, allowing you to shoot at vehicles from an elevated position and in the safety of a cover (a 4+ armour almost certainly won’t help you against tanks’ return fire.) Most effective with the Omnispex, due to lowering cover.
The Transuranic Arquebus in general is not a good gun. Spending 25 additional points to get a S4 AP3 Armorbane gun is not worth it, compared to getting two more S4 AP4 Rapid Fire bodies. Rangers also do not synergize with the Plasma Caliver very well, due to having such long-ranged weapons. Keep in an objective sitting role, or abuse move through cover to kill tanks with Arc Rifles. Bare bones squads are effective due to Precision Shots. Taking out special weapons is very useful. Omnispices are a better option on the rangers then the Vanguard, since your basic weapons have AP4, allowing you to take on entrenched stuff like Tau infantry and other Skitarii a lot better.


Skitarii Vanguard
Spoiler:

Hands down one of the best troops choices in the game. A full unit of ten, bare bones, pump out 30 shots that could wound twice on 6's any Toughness value. Running them bare bones is worthwhile, but when the Vanguard Alpha is my warlord (if you run mono-skitarii) taking Plasma Calivers is worthwhile, due to "preferred enemy (everything)" mitigating the gets hot well. They've proven vital to my games, but their flimsiness is still real. They'll always die in the end though, such is their tragic fate. The -1 Toughness debuff in CC is rarely useful, but it is free, so hardly a negative.
The debuff can open up to some Instant Death schemes when cooperating with other strong units from your army, such as Kastelans and Sydonian Dragoons. Situational, but the possibility exists.
Don’t even think about putting the Arquebii on Vanguard. Arc Rifles are slightly less valuable on Vanguard than on Rangers, due to lack of Move Through Cover. The Plasma Caliver is still a risky weapon to take because you'll be sad when your 30 pts weapons will get shot, but it's still nice to have when you're facing TEQs.
Their biggest problem is getting in range, but with the Skitarii Maniple's scout move you are pretty much guaranteed to have some enemies on turn 1 in range. Omnispex are a good option, but not necessary since your weapons are only AP5. Meaning that most people can rely on an armour save equal or better then common coversaves.
Only against something like a DA Ravenwing with rerollable cover saves you might want to take the Omnispex for sure.


Sydonian Dragoon
Spoiler:
Good harassment/skirmish unit. 45 pts is cheap enough that you don't really cry when he dies, and just enough that you'll be happy when he destroys a vehicle from behind or kills 6 guys in a single charge. He's resilient to light arms fire but will crumble against a dedicated anti-vehicle unit in one turn. Use Scout and his big movement to get him to cover to boost his 5+ and outflank your targets with them. As always, do not mix weapons. Radium Jezzail looks nice, but in my personal opinion, Dragoons are best used as melee units.
If a Dragoon kills pretty much anything, it’ll make its points back. Running them solo or in squads of two seems to be the best way to play them. Bigger units become a hassle to move around and will be less point efficient than one or two.


Ironstrider Balistarius
Spoiler:
Somewhat of a "Trap" unit. The Onager Dunecrawler is a better gun platform for only 35 more points base, and the speed advantage is somewhat useless due to the 48" range on the Balistarius' guns. Expensive for a 55 point Autocannon platform, fairly useless in CC, and far too expensive for a Lascannon platform.
Even with it's "anti-air advantage", the Onager is better, with the Icarus Array killing far more flyers than a TL Autocannon at BS2. Having no inbuild cover save really hurts them compared to the Dragoons. Most of the time, this unit is not worth taking. Taking a lascannon on them grants you some good anti-armour shots, but the 20pts price tag for a total of 75pts does not make up for it.


Sicaran Infiltrator
Spoiler:
Tricky to use well, I'm trying to infiltrate them in a manner to allow me to approach the shooty backfield units. Sadly, the lack of offensive grenades damages their ability to charge units in buildings. Absolutely devastating on the charge, especially when you combine Zealot with the CC Doctrinas to drown in the weight of attacks. The Flechette Pistols can be devastating with some nice rolls too, they are deadly against blobs of T3 grunts. I've also used them hidden near a problematic unit to diminish their performances, but wasting 185 pts just for that may be a bit much. Overall, really nice but you have to be wary of their manoeuvring, and the fact that they're T3 still exposes them to ID most of the time.
I cannot recommend taking the power sword/stubcarbines. Taser Goads are simply too good to miss out on, due to high strength and exploding attacks. I, personally, like to put Phosphoenix on the Princeps in a Convocation, due to it being free, and Infiltrators actually getting in range.
A single squad of these and some Dragoons really put some pressure on your opponents army. Fast, Infiltrating and stealth give these guys a much better survival chance then the Ruststalkers, hiding them inside some ruins at the start of the game is a great way to ensure some decent saves against armies without ignore cover options.
They really depend on attacking before the enemy. A squad of Infiltrators will fold horribly against anything with high initiative S6 AP1-4. Power Mauls are your bane here, as are high-initiative MCs.


Sicaran Ruststalkers
Spoiler:
Keep equipped with Transonic Razors, Chordclaws and Mindscrambler Grenades, they benefit from both Dunestrider and Furious Charge, which add to make them a fast attack force. They're also very fragile with T3, even if they have 2 wounds each. They can exchange all their weapons for two Transonic Blades for free, which can ensure more of a hurt, but at the cost of utility and the chance for ID, while the Princeps can gain a Prehensile Dataspike for the cost of a melta and/or buy back the Chordclaw he traded away if he has double Transonic Blades.
While the Transonic Blades seem tempting, it is better to stay away from them. One attack with Fleshbane and the uber-grenades are vastly superior to +1S on the other attacks, especially since Furious Charge already makes your attacks S5.
These guys are a ton of fun to use. Their grenades allow you to charge through cover without suffering the initiative penalty, meaning that they can take on pretty much any entrenched foe hiding in some ruins.
The fact that their Transonic weapons need one round of close combat to become AP2 is actually a great boon. Since it allows you to kill a decent amount of models on turn you charge without killing the enemy unit (if it is big enough) outright, keeping you safe in your opponents next turns shooting phase. After that you clean up the unit in your opponents turn with the AP2. Include the Prehensile Dataspike and you also got a unit that can reliably take out an enemy vehicle or walker in one turn.
Their biggest issue is that they are super flimsy with only T3 and a 4+/6++/5+++. Luckily, they are fast. Movement + Dunestriderr + run + Dunecstrider (+crusader and scout in the maniple) makes up for an average movement of 15"" ( or 23" in maniple) in your first turn, meaning that they are almost guaranteed to charge a unit on their second turn. Combine their charge with the charge of a Dragoon and they will be a smashing hit. Transonic Blades never really outperform their counterpart and removes your ability to charge through terrain without suffering the initiative penalty, so personally I would say that the +1 strength is not worth losing the mindscrambler grenades for.


Onager Dunecrawler
Spoiler:
Absolute garbage in assault, so they would need a CQC babysitter unit like Infiltrators or Ruststalkers. Solo or 2-in-a-squad Dunecrawlers would be great with the Icarus array. Taking a ton would be a possible counter to Flyrants.
Useful with the Neutron Laser, as the ability to make explode vehicles in one shot is quite savoury to have. If you're running him solo, consider buying him the Cognis Manipulator, it's 25 pts but gives you IWND, helping you heal up a little as your 6++ won't save you. Good combined with hiding him in a ruin to give him a 4+ cover save. If you intend on having a unit of Vanguards or something to bodyguard them, consider taking the 10 points Mindscanner Probe, it denies the bonus charge attack on any of your units getting charged within a 6" radius. Situational, but unless that 10 points would buy you something better, generally worth it.
With a Neutron Laser or Icarus Array they can absolutely dominate the battlefield. Three of these in one squad for that sweet 4++ save allows them to take a gakload of damage.
The Eradication Beamer seems good on paper, but it suffers from range-banding and being too generalist. Better to specialize your Onagers than have them be mediocre to bad at everything. The Heavy Phosphor Blaster is completely redundant, and I cannot recommend taking it.

A possible build is running 4 or 5 of these. 2x2 with the Neutron Laser or 3 with the Neutron laser + 2 with the Icarus Array. As always, do not mix weapons in a squad. In a Convocation, consider taking a single Icarus Onager, due to Cult Mechanicus and Knights providing plenty of AP2. Two Icarus Onagers are overkill unless you’re playing against something like Necrons.


ALTERNATE TAKE (Gameandwatch)
Spoiler:

After careful consideration, I have determined the following:

TROOPS:
Vanguard are the best troop:
I know I know, rangers have some pretty cool stuff, but when it comes to general versatility and use, I don't think they hold up as well. First, they are more expensive. Second, none of the special weapons synergize with the unit. The only exception would be the arquebus, but even then it would make more sense to use the extreme range to keep the unit out of danger, which would mean you are only firing a maximum of 3 shots against most targets(since they would be sitting in the way back)

The vanguard instead synergize very well with most special weapons, with arc rifles being the best option. AP2 plasma is nice, but paying tripple the cost of one model is way too high a tax to make it useful. Normally I would say that anti vehicle, mixed in with anti infantry is bad, but considering the arc rifle is also S6, it completes both tasks fairly well. Also OMNISPECS EVERYTIME!

The passive toughness lowering is very situational, but has hilariously helped against both centurions and thunderwolves, allowing my S8 dragoons on the charge to double them out. SILLY!

ELITES:
Unfortunately, neither of these doods are fantastic, this section will more come to taste and personal preference than anything else.

Both unfortunately suffer from the same problem, T3 and cost.

They are both relatively fast, can take on many different types of targets (the ruststalkers more than the infiltrators) but even with a 4+ 6++ 5+++ and 2 wounds, against anything but standard infantry weapons, they will crumble. The rustalkers taken stock are one of the best jacks of all trades I have seen, they are fast, have assault grenades, can wound anything at any toughness, access to AP2, haywire for vehicles, etc. A very well rounded close combat unit that has no real defense for avoiding getting blown off the able aside from speed. Any S6 or higher, high volume of fire weapons, ie scatterlasers, high yield missile pods, autocannons, multilasers, etc will just decimate these guys. How T4 would have dramatically changed their effectveness, and likely justify their 30 point cost. Granted though, if this unit does make it to combat, holy crap can they dish out the pain. Not only can they very reliably kill knights, but they can also engage infantry, heavy infantry, MC and GMC equally. As said, the only problem is getting there...

Infiltrators...now, I LOVE these guys, their design/ look, the fact that they can pack hilarious uzis, and the tesla goad is actually pretty devastating to light infantry. These guys LEVEL hordes and blobs with impunity, with massed machine pistol fire followed by mass S5-6 hits in CC. They do have both stealth and infiltrate to get them into the fight better, and can be an amusing harass unit with the dunstrider rule. And MAN is their passive ability so mean. Shoe in for me, but many I believe will get different mileage out of these guys.

FAST:
THe one and only choice, dragoons... yes they are a bit squishy, but you can take lots of them, are priced like a terminator and are incredible as both ranged and melee platforms. In fact, choosing which platform has been my biggest debacle with this army. Their melee is fantastic, threatens so many targets and is hilarious when paired with both vanguard and infiltrators.

But most have overlooked their ranged output. Ironically, their ranged capability with jezzails plugs a lot of the holes that things like infiltrators and russtalkers face. Things like broadsides, or riptides, or jetbikes with scatter, centurions, even things like wraithknights, and any normal monstrous creature. 6 of these guys skittering around the board sounds like a really fun harass unit that on good rolls will deal devestating damage to multiwound models/units. Think, first turn throw on BS5+, shoot any target(since basically anything is in range with their speed) and laugh when you get one or more 6's throwing 2+ ap2 wounds on targets. having them with jezzails also makes using the serpentias more justified, as not only does it increase the chance of other units in your army charging, but they can lower the potential cover saves used when 6s are rolled with the jezzails.

In fact the only real issue with the jezzail dragoons is the lack of fast attack slots. I would love to have 2 units of both, but the only way this is achievable is with multiple cads or using the sub par formation.

Heavy support:
I really don't like the ballistas, I don't know why, but 55 points for an autocannon platform seems like a lot to me. I won't go too much in depth with them, as I don't exactly understand their place in the army. I would definitely like to hear others experience/ feelings about them!

Dunecrawler: Man, I really REALLY want to use these guys, but I am really not sure on a loadout. The anti-air option is the most expensive and stuck shooting at skimmers and flyers/ FMC, but it handles with devastating effect one of the armies greatest weaknesses which is flyrants. They are also able to do some damage to things like wave serpents, which is never a bad thing. I will likely always have a unit of 1-3 equipped wiht this option. The neutron laser is another story. I really REALLY want to like this weapon, 48" S10 AP1 Concussive, Blast is really fantastic, but is 115 points for a single blast and a S4 stubber really worth it? Im not sure, and have been wracking my brain to figure it out. Surprisingly many have overlooked the TL heavy phosphur blaster, which 3 TL S6 ap3 shots isn't bad, and with the phosphur rule, S6 makes it much easier to wound/ glance, making this rule more effective when used alongside other units. It is an interesting option for only 15 points, though would likely have been a more interesting one if it was 5 points cheaper.

Not sure of the usefulness of the beamer, seems chancy, idk maybe it can be good?

Anyways, this is what my research has found me


CULT MECHANICUS

Belisarius Cawl
Spoiler:
Effectively invulnerable HQ. Theoretically good in a Cohort Cybernetica, although I haven't tested it. Good in combat, but really shines as a support HQ, healing himself and his unit, and buffing things around him with Canticles of the Archmagos. His gun is neat but really not that good, due to short range. You have better anti-vehicle, but the death ray is hilarious when it instagibs something. A superior Tech-Priest Dominus. I would definitely recommend replacing the Convocation Dominus with him, if you have the points.


Tech-Priest Dominus
Spoiler:
Takes a lot of punishment for whichever unit you place him into. Has decent weapons, but really shines as a support HQ. With the relics he has access to you can make him work for a few scenarios, the classic one is to give him the IWND staff when in a unit of Kataphrons (or better, in a Cohort Cybernetica). If you don’t have much Skyfire, giving him the Raiment of Technomartyrs works with a unit of Grav Destroyers, and helps with overwatch.
What I generally do is put him in front of a unit of Grav Destroyers, and use him as a tank. He can soak anything that isn’t S8+, and whenever he’s hit by a melta or something, I LoS it to a Kataphron, which I heal with Master of Machines. Watch out for Demolisher Cannons! Any S10 AP2+ is going to be a bad time for you, as it’s instant-killing Kataphrons and the Dominus.


Kataphron Destroyers
Spoiler:
The volume of fire they can pump out is devastating, I successfully crashed a flyer with the 3 man squad on lucky rolls. Keep them in cover though, 4+ armour is not really that great and most of all these guys don't have FNP. Your opponent will focus fire on them, so make sure they are safe. I would advise on taking the Cognis Flamers only when you intend on advancing on the board with them, best with a Techpriest. Otherwise the Phosphor Blaster is not the best weapon ever but if you can reduce the cover of your target that's that. Units with Grav-Cannons rule the Meta, so take them. They do not have the Grav-Amp special rule, but a longer range and more shots per volley balances that out quite decently.
Plasma Culverin is almost never worth taking, maybe against daemons, but otherwise Grav is still the superior option.


Kataphron Breachers
Spoiler:
These guys are actually pretty good when used with the Holy Requisitioner formation or when deployed in your backline.
The Heavy Arc rifles allows for some sure way vehicle removal, being 36" one squad with these can reliably stop most vehicles in one turn.
The Torsion Cannon is a fun weapon that has a really rough time dealing with the basic BS3 of the Kataphrons. Only good against armies with MC with a bad invul save or vehicles with 10 or 11 as armour value.
Sadly it is not as good as the Arc rifles in removing vehicles, nor is it as good as the grav-cannons of the Destroyers against MC.
Breachers are not melee units. Do not charge them into enemies, and do not let them get charged. Consider them your long range haywire support.


Corpuscarii Electro-Priests [/b
Spoiler:
Nope. Far too expensive for what they do, and have no durability whatsoever. Possibly good for anti-horde in a pure Cult Mech list, but that raises the question of why you would run a pure Cult Mech army.


[b]Fulgurite Electro-Priests

Spoiler:
See above. Basically only good against multi-wound 4+ save (or worse) models.


Kastelan Robot Maniple
Spoiler:
Essentially a premade deathstar. This unit will never, ever die, and puts out a ton of S6 AP3 shooting with TL phosphor and Shooty protocols. Equally good as a CC unit with Power Fists and Conqueror protocols. Has one severe drawback, and that is speed. This unit is extremely slow. Therefore, it is better in a semi-defensive role reactively charging enemy units that get close. Being able to shoot up to 12 S6 AP3 36" Luminagen shots for just two robots is wonderful, this unit will be the bane of MEQs. They are pretty tough, and the Datasmith can tank the AP3 thanks to his Artificer Armour. They come stock with two Power Fists (that hits at their Initiative, due to them being MCs) and Torrent Flamers. The flamers aren't particularly devastating but it can very well clean up the hordes facing you before finishing them off. I play them with the twin-linked Heavy Phosphor Blasters + the carapace-mounted one. Due to them being both Luminagen and fired from an MC, you can fire the carapace-mounted ones before to hope to reduce the cover by 1 BEFORE firing your twin-linked ones. The Datasmith is really good as well, with a better save than his robots, 2+ and 5++ in CC too, plus the FNP. His pistol is powerful, and can do nice damage on vehicles should you get in range with them. As of their protocols, I only run them in a single Maniple for now, so I never tried switching off the FNP to give them this extra durability. Be advised they are not invincible, they'll fall to lots of firepower, poisoned weaponry, psykers, or generally being charged with lots of AP3 weapons. A bit expensive on points, but most certainly worth taking.
This unit always attracts a lot of fire and is an absolute nightmare for armies without Grav. I almost never bother switching protocols, since having Feel no Pain on them is absolute boss.


FORMATIONS

Sicarian Killclade and Ironstrider Cavaliers- (gameandwatch)
Spoiler:

On a different topic, I have been eyeballing the formations (more to figure out how I want to field my ruststalkers and infiltrators) just to really dissect how usable they are.

Ignoring the maniple, lets start with the killclade:

Bad stuff first:
A 4 unit tax is definitely expensive and is a large board imprint, but worst of all, not being part of a skitarii detachment means they lose crusader and scout. This is very important and will reflect how we look at the good.

The good:
12" infiltrator bubble: This is a fantastic buff, considering the bubble affects models and not units, this can really alter the survivability of your army by blanketing the enemies line in -1WS, I and LD bust most importantly, -1BS which is what most of the skitarii army is vulnerable to, massed ranged S6-7. The rustalkers also gain the ability to run and charge once per game after turn 1. Once per game is kinda meh, but considering most of these guys will likely be left in the open after their first charge maybe it isn't such a big deal. What stinks is what is mentioned in Bad Stuff, losing crusader and scout stinks as this would make a turn 2 charge pretty much guaranteed, but even with the the worst rolls, dunestrider thankfully makes up for this putting them a minimum of 26" across the board before charge rolls are made.

Ironstrider Cavaliers:
The Bad:
One thing for sure that stinks is that the formation MUST be placed in reserve, hurting the formations flexibility as a whole. Second big issue coming from the same problem is one reserve roll for the entire formation. Now, you can mitigate this with a comms relay or something, but still gives the chance of the entire formation being delayed which especially hurts the dragoons. Dragoons have dunestrider, so if they are to deploy in a normal detachment, they would instead have a near guaranteed second turn charge with scout, crusader and dunstrider. Last bad thing is the size of the model and its base. This limits deployment options when they actually do enter and your opponent can then counter this formation by deploying blob units or infiltrators along the sides of their deployment zone. Now where some confusion comes in with the formation is where they all come in: do you roll for one side for the whole formation since you roll once for their reserve roll? Or do you roll individually to see what side they arrive from?

The Good: Now, to mitigate what was just labeled in the bad, thankfully this formation rolls to see if it enters starting turn 1. A turn 1 flank alphastrike is an endeering proposition, and really messes up your opponents deployment options. As well, if you were to arrive turn 1, this near guarantees a second turn charge with the dragoons. This formation also gives you access to more of either unit, especially dragoons considering a normal detachment only has 2 fast attack slots.

The Meh?
The formation's special rules beyond the outflank rule are somewhat situational and not necessarily going to be a benefit in every game. THe shooting through your own units bit, will only apply if you are intentionally screening your ballistari with your dragoons, and reroll wounds on a character and their unit may or may not be useful.

Overall, both seem applicable, I personally would not use the ironstrider one as it can be too chancy and I want my dragoons on the board for those tasty turn 2 charges. I like the killclade the more I look at it, even though they lose crusader and scout, man oh man can they cover a HUGE distance very quickly.


Cohort Cybernetica-
Spoiler:
Be very aggressive with this.This unit is nigh unstoppable; I only lost 1 robot the whole day, no other models, and only because I rolled a 1 when trying to give the injured robot a wound back... Otherwise, their output of fire is seriously damaging, and they are also very deadly in close combat. Stick them at the frontline in a very "come at me bro" style and just blast away. After I learned the ins and outs, I was actually rarely using the extra shots command, until my opponent realized their sustainability and ignored them. It is important to not forget that they are still at base, 4 monstrous creatures, 2 powerfist datasmiths and a power axe dominus, which means getting them into close combat is not a bad thing at all. As well, even though the iwnd relic is a given on this unit, the cognis relic as well made it very deadly against flyers and fmcs so keep that in mind. Grade A+


War Convocation-
Spoiler:

This is THE Adeptus Mechanicus formation. Absolutely amazing bonuses across the board, and easily one of the top-tier armies in the game. Probably shouldn't be run in a casual environment, as Skitarii getting Canticle bonuses and free upgrades is a bit too good for casual FLGS play. With this formation, upgrade selection is basically rendered as an auto-choice. Take every upgrade you can, as everything is free, including Relics.

The downside to this formation is easily avoided, as the Cult Mech and Knight detachments in the formation are easily expandable. Lack of anti-horde in the form of Skitarii Vanguard is my only complaint, as the formation is limited to just one of each Skitarii unit.


TACTICS

Infiltrator / Ruststalker Tactics (Whiskey144)
Spoiler:
The two seem designed to complement each other- Ruststalkers are far more dangerous in combat but will have a harder time actually getting there compared to Infiltrators- both units get Dunestrider and the Skitarii Maniple detachment gives Scout moves to everybody, but the Infiltrators can, well, infiltrate up the board.

Given that Infiltrators aren't as scary in combat, they seem intended to be used in concert- the Infiltrators start much further up the board and then get a Turn 2 charge off, and impose a -1 penalty to enemy Initiative, WS, and Leadership (and BS, but we'll ignore that), so since they have WS/I 4 themselves they have a good chance of sticking around in combat for long enough for the Ruststalkers to run up and then murder the piss out of all the things.

It's not entirely clear from the currently leaked images what the Infiltrators' options are, and Ruststalkers would appear to have no guns whatsoever. I'd say that for Ruststalkers though, you'll want to swap to dual Swords rather than the Knife+Chordclaw; the spare Fleshbane attack will really only help against MCs, and the weapons all auto-Wound on 6's anyways. Not only that, but the Swords offer +1S, so on the charge Ruststalkers can get a really beast S6- S4 base, +1S for FC, and +1S for the Swords.

Oh, and then they wreck any infantry with good armor since on the second round of combat- so presumably the first round of combat when they charge/are charged, and then the second round is the next assault phase- so potentially if they got charged by, say, some GKTs for example, on the Skitarii player's turn the Ruststalkers would suddenly have AP2 combat weapons, and probably slaughter the GKTs.

Praise the Omnissiah indeed.

Also, it's not clear if the Sicarian Infiltrator's Neurostatic Aura rule can stack or if it's just a straight -1 (Note: RAW it cannot stack.); if the former... then I can see some really interesting uses for that, such as locking two units of Infiltrators into combat with some particularly nasty deathstar (or MC) and then bring in some Dragoons or Ruststalkers (or allied choppy squad) to come and smash whatever is tied up.


Gameandwatch's Take-
Spoiler:

-Though skitarii infantry may look decent on paper, and vanguard are a decent unit, especially when put in pods, they are VERY fragile and their range really hurts them. Now having played in a tourny with the army, it makes me very sad neither skitarii nor cult mech has a transport or deep strike option for these units. They overall did okay, but everygame they were wiped out. I was using 2 5 man haywire squads and 1 full 10 man stock squad, decent output, but hard to keep around or get in range. Grade b+

-Rustalkers and infiltrators...Ill start off by saying models wise these are my favorite in the army, I will never be playing without them. That being said, the obvious is just too true. toughness 3 on these guys is a travesty, plain and simple. SO often their multiple wounds and FnP counted for nothing, as there is just sooooo much 6+ firepower in the game atm. THAT being said, these guys are some of the most destructive force I have ever witnessed. Even one, of either of these units cannot be allowed to exist. Rustalkers are a terror for both infantry and vehicles (didnt get to fight any MCs), they just mow through any target they get their hands on. Infiltrators' passive ability is game changing against so many armies, and the S6 goad hits gets out of hand so quickly it is silly. I am now completely rethinking the validity of the killclade formation. Grade A

-Dragoons...are...awesome! didn't get to use them much vs infantry but man are the nasty vehicle hunters. All the dunstriders' speed (including the above 2) is incredible and man all those S8 hits just murders vehicles. So fun, and not as fragile as I thought. Grade A+

-Onagers hit hard, but are a gamble. I have tried the icarrus array version in practice, and though great against flyers and skimmers, against any army that either has no abundance of said units, or they simply aren't on the field, makes the iccarus crawlers a fairly large point sink that just stands around and snap fires at some things. Thus, I decided to try the neutron laser variant. I love the look of this gun, and coming stock with the stubber is nice. The laser itself is very nasty, and crazy accurate with orders given...but suffers from the problem all single small blasts have. It is just one small blast. It can be really nasty if it gets through, but against single targets it can be shrugged off by one roll, which is very sad. Unsure if I will field these guys in the future. Great when they work, big terrain pieces when they don't. Grade B

Thats all I got for today!

This message was edited 43 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 22:43:59




Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Their troops are *great* to stick into drop pods:

5 Vanguard, 2 Arc Rifles (these are rapid fire guns with haywire), plus pod is 120 points.
5 Vanguard, 2 Plasma Caliver (Assault 3 plasma), plus pod is 150 points.

Oh and because of those doctrines, when the pods drop they will shoot at BS7!

BS7, 4 haywire shots
or
BS7, 6 plasma shots

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/02 22:00:21


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Super Newb wrote:
Their troops are *great* to stick into drop pods:

5 Vanguard, 2 Arc Rifles (these are rapid fire guns with haywire), plus pod is 120 points.
5 Vanguard, 2 Plasma Caliver (Assault 3 plasma), plus pod is 150 points.

Oh and because of those doctrines, when the pods drop they will shoot at BS7!

BS7, 4 haywire shots
or
BS7, 6 plasma shots



Good to see I have a new and exciting way to forge the narrative of Logan Grimnar's Discount Used Pod Emporium (come on down!)


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
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the_scotsman wrote:
Good to see I have a new and exciting way to forge the narrative of Logan Grimnar's Discount Used Pod Emporium (come on down!)



Lulz.

The OP asked for competitive uses not stuff that makes sense fluff wise.

But who knows, maybe Logan is making a lot of money renting out his pods.
   
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Hyperspace

Super Newb wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Good to see I have a new and exciting way to forge the narrative of Logan Grimnar's Discount Used Pod Emporium (come on down!)



Lulz.

The OP asked for competitive uses not stuff that makes sense fluff wise.

But who knows, maybe Logan is making a lot of money renting out his pods.


Believe me, he is

I would at least paint my pods like AdMech stuff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/03 02:29:54




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the_scotsman wrote:
Super Newb wrote:
Their troops are *great* to stick into drop pods:

5 Vanguard, 2 Arc Rifles (these are rapid fire guns with haywire), plus pod is 120 points.
5 Vanguard, 2 Plasma Caliver (Assault 3 plasma), plus pod is 150 points.

Oh and because of those doctrines, when the pods drop they will shoot at BS7!

BS7, 4 haywire shots
or
BS7, 6 plasma shots



Good to see I have a new and exciting way to forge the narrative of Logan Grimnar's Discount Used Pod Emporium (come on down!)



That's incredibly good. Reminds me of stormtek/veiltek courts. But better. How many men do you need to take 3 specials?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also BS7 is excellent counter to the gets-hot rule.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/03 04:57:48


 
   
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Poly Ranger wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Super Newb wrote:
Their troops are *great* to stick into drop pods:

5 Vanguard, 2 Arc Rifles (these are rapid fire guns with haywire), plus pod is 120 points.
5 Vanguard, 2 Plasma Caliver (Assault 3 plasma), plus pod is 150 points.

Oh and because of those doctrines, when the pods drop they will shoot at BS7!

BS7, 4 haywire shots
or
BS7, 6 plasma shots



Good to see I have a new and exciting way to forge the narrative of Logan Grimnar's Discount Used Pod Emporium (come on down!)



That's incredibly good. Reminds me of stormtek/veiltek courts. But better. How many men do you need to take 3 specials?


10. Well for the guns I mentioned. Though the sarge can take an arc pistol or other wacky weapons i haven't looked into yet...

Arc pistol is 10 points so that'd be 5 haywire shots within 12 inches for 130 points total

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/03 06:38:16


 
   
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one thing to note is that due to the lack of an HQ (as far as we know) you'll not be able to run a CAD thus getting objective secured on rangers isn't gonna happen

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BrianDavion wrote:
one thing to note is that due to the lack of an HQ (as far as we know) you'll not be able to run a CAD thus getting objective secured on rangers isn't gonna happen


It seems kind of silly that they omitted them. It's not like they don't make tech preist models.

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There will be an AdMech codex later. This is Codex:Skitarii. Much in the same way the Militarum Tempestus codex came before the bigger guard codex, which did in fact have named HQs and stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:


Good to see I have a new and exciting way to forge the narrative of Logan Grimnar's Discount Used Pod Emporium (come on down!)


I believe there's a Flesh Tearers detachments with 6 FA slots that can be used for pods, which requires a single troops choice. Sadly, Logan Grimnar has been undercut by his competition and their even deeper discounts!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/03 08:21:25


 
   
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And HQ. But yes - 6 pods.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Super Newb wrote:
Poly Ranger wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Super Newb wrote:
Their troops are *great* to stick into drop pods:

5 Vanguard, 2 Arc Rifles (these are rapid fire guns with haywire), plus pod is 120 points.
5 Vanguard, 2 Plasma Caliver (Assault 3 plasma), plus pod is 150 points.

Oh and because of those doctrines, when the pods drop they will shoot at BS7!

BS7, 4 haywire shots
or
BS7, 6 plasma shots



Good to see I have a new and exciting way to forge the narrative of Logan Grimnar's Discount Used Pod Emporium (come on down!)



That's incredibly good. Reminds me of stormtek/veiltek courts. But better. How many men do you need to take 3 specials?


10. Well for the guns I mentioned. Though the sarge can take an arc pistol or other wacky weapons i haven't looked into yet...

Arc pistol is 10 points so that'd be 5 haywire shots within 12 inches for 130 points total


They look really good. From what I've seen written which is from what's been leaked 30pts for a 3 shot 18" plasma gun seems meh - but when you also get those doctrines you mentioned then it looks decent. 15 pts for 2 haywire shots is really good. How effective are their base weapons?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/03 09:59:46


 
   
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East Coast, USA

the_scotsman wrote:


Good to see I have a new and exciting way to forge the narrative of Logan Grimnar's Discount Used Pod Emporium (come on down!)



In all fairness, who MAKES the Drop Pods in the first place? Logan's boys may repair, remake and even scratch build new pods, but the designs and most of the original manufacturing flows out from Mars (or other Forge Worlds). Complaining that Skitarii are coming down in Drop Pods is like complaining that Honda's corporate security guards drive Hondas. The only fluff reason the Skitarii wouldn't use Drop Pods is that they'd most likely have something even better.

Having said that, I do really like the idea of throwing in a couple of Drop Pods. Depending on what all the Formations look like, we might not have to pay ANY taxes for the Drop Pods. Remember that Formation benefits work just fine in an Unbound list. So, several Skitarii Formations plus a couple of Drop Pods is a perfectly legal list. Tournaments won't like it, but then my experience is that tournaments would prefer that Detachments and Formations in general weren't a thing and that 7th Edition had never happened.

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Come someone please tell me how you are suppose to keep your warlord alive in a Skitarii force? I mean its any character, and from what I can tell there aren't any characters that can exactly hold up to a strong breeze.

the units all seem pretty great, cheap and can take in numbers. But if your "warlord" is in a 10 man ranger squad in the back... not exactly hard to get that slay the warlord if someone wants it...

Only thing I can think of is allying in some GK's for some extra staying power. Maybe a lvl 3 libby, 5 termies, and a dreadknight.

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Beijing, China

 Verviedi wrote:
Super Newb wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Good to see I have a new and exciting way to forge the narrative of Logan Grimnar's Discount Used Pod Emporium (come on down!)

Lulz.
The OP asked for competitive uses not stuff that makes sense fluff wise.
But who knows, maybe Logan is making a lot of money renting out his pods.

Believe me, he is
I would at least paint my pods like AdMech stuff.


the Ad Mech make the drop pods, but then they have to use rentapods from space wolves..... The mercantilist nature of the IoM never ceases to amaze.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
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Oceanside, CA

 Rezyn wrote:
Come someone please tell me how you are suppose to keep your warlord alive in a Skitarii force? I mean its any character, and from what I can tell there aren't any characters that can exactly hold up to a strong breeze.

the units all seem pretty great, cheap and can take in numbers. But if your "warlord" is in a 10 man ranger squad in the back... not exactly hard to get that slay the warlord if someone wants it...

Only thing I can think of is allying in some GK's for some extra staying power. Maybe a lvl 3 libby, 5 termies, and a dreadknight.


Your warlord is the guy who owns the drop pod sales lot. I'm thinking a blood angels dreadnought in a drop pod. Who's more likely to lead a mars force than a machine?

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
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Poly Ranger wrote:


They look really good. From what I've seen written which is from what's been leaked 30pts for a 3 shot 18" plasma gun seems meh - but when you also get those doctrines you mentioned then it looks decent. 15 pts for 2 haywire shots is really good. How effective are their base weapons?


Vanguard, which are the slightly cheaper troops come stock with an 18 inch S3 / Ap 5 gun Assault 3 which isn't the greatest. It does however have a special rule that for every 6 you roll to wound it automatically causes 2 wounds regardless of toughness.

Rangers, which cost slightly more, have a 30 inch S4 / AP4 gun, rapid fire, with precision shots.


The Rangers gun is obviously much better. However if you're drop podding in dudes as a kinda suicide force with those haywire arc guns then Vanguard does it for cheaper.
   
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Beijing, China

Super Newb wrote:
Poly Ranger wrote:


They look really good. From what I've seen written which is from what's been leaked 30pts for a 3 shot 18" plasma gun seems meh - but when you also get those doctrines you mentioned then it looks decent. 15 pts for 2 haywire shots is really good. How effective are their base weapons?


Vanguard, which are the slightly cheaper troops come stock with an 18 inch S3 / Ap 5 gun Assault 3 which isn't the greatest. It does however have a special rule that for every 6 you roll to wound it automatically causes 2 wounds regardless of toughness.

Rangers, which cost slightly more, have a 30 inch S4 / AP4 gun, rapid fire, with precision shots.


The Rangers gun is obviously much better. However if you're drop podding in dudes as a kinda suicide force with those haywire arc guns then Vanguard does it for cheaper.


Not sure the Rangers are obviously better. They cost 20 points more and have a slightly longer range bolter with AP4. Precision shots are nice, but you have to have a target for them. A lot of armies dont run special weapons troopers. Other armies run MSU where essentially every trooper is a special weapon troopers.

The Vanguard's rad gun is awesomeness. Assault 3 and wound doubling. These guys will put a hurt on anything with a toughness value. They also give their enemy -1T in assault, which isnt great but helps a bit.

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Hyperspace

Thoughts on the Ruststalkers and Infiltrators?



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 Exergy wrote:

Not sure the Rangers are obviously better. They cost 20 points more and have a slightly longer range bolter with AP4. Precision shots are nice, but you have to have a target for them. A lot of armies dont run special weapons troopers. Other armies run MSU where essentially every trooper is a special weapon troopers.

The Vanguard's rad gun is awesomeness. Assault 3 and wound doubling. These guys will put a hurt on anything with a toughness value. They also give their enemy -1T in assault, which isnt great but helps a bit.


You make some good points. Rad gun is only S3 though, which yes is mitigated by their special rule with 6s counting as double wounds. But their range is also only 18. And it is AP5 rather than AP4.

Rangers make more sense for holding objectives or hanging back a bit as their regular gun hits things from 30 inches away. And yes precision shot isn't always useful, but in cases it can be pretty damn helpful. And AP4 of course negates armor saves that some armies have, whereas AP5 would not.

If Skitarii are in pods, I say Vanguard all the way because they are cheaper and in close range. But I definitely see a use for the Rangers elsewhere.


   
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If I want to put Vanguard in Chimeras, do I have to start them outside of it turn one and then have them hop in and leave the AM soldiers on foot: sorry, noob question -- have never allied
   
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 Rezyn wrote:
Come someone please tell me how you are suppose to keep your warlord alive in a Skitarii force? I mean its any character, and from what I can tell there aren't any characters that can exactly hold up to a strong breeze.

the units all seem pretty great, cheap and can take in numbers. But if your "warlord" is in a 10 man ranger squad in the back... not exactly hard to get that slay the warlord if someone wants it...

Only thing I can think of is allying in some GK's for some extra staying power. Maybe a lvl 3 libby, 5 termies, and a dreadknight.


10 man unit
60 fethin inch snipers

go hide in a ruin somewhere or a bunker


Automatically Appended Next Post:
jSewell wrote:
If I want to put Vanguard in Chimeras, do I have to start them outside of it turn one and then have them hop in and leave the AM soldiers on foot: sorry, noob question -- have never allied


Yes as they are DT

they will probably move to FA by the time 7th ed IG get released

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/03 16:59:33


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
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Beijing, China

Super Newb wrote:
 Exergy wrote:

Not sure the Rangers are obviously better. They cost 20 points more and have a slightly longer range bolter with AP4. Precision shots are nice, but you have to have a target for them. A lot of armies dont run special weapons troopers. Other armies run MSU where essentially every trooper is a special weapon troopers.
The Vanguard's rad gun is awesomeness. Assault 3 and wound doubling. These guys will put a hurt on anything with a toughness value. They also give their enemy -1T in assault, which isnt great but helps a bit.

You make some good points. Rad gun is only S3 though, which yes is mitigated by their special rule with 6s counting as double wounds. But their range is also only 18. And it is AP5 rather than AP4.
Rangers make more sense for holding objectives or hanging back a bit as their regular gun hits things from 30 inches away. And yes precision shot isn't always useful, but in cases it can be pretty damn helpful. And AP4 of course negates armor saves that some armies have, whereas AP5 would not.
If Skitarii are in pods, I say Vanguard all the way because they are cheaper and in close range. But I definitely see a use for the Rangers elsewhere.


Vanguard 18" is the problem. Being str3 is completely mitigated by RoF and the wound doubling.

Against T3 T4 and T5 you are getting the same number of wounds as Str4
Against T6+ you are getting double the wounds of Str4

But it's assault 3! 50% more shots than a rapid fire weapon in rapid fire range, but out to 18" instead of 12.

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 Verviedi wrote:
Thoughts on the Ruststalkers and Infiltrators?


The two seem designed to complement each other- Ruststalkers are far more dangerous in combat but will have a harder time actually getting there compared to Infiltrators- both units get Dunestrider and the Skitarii Maniple detachment gives Scout moves to everybody, but the Infiltrators can, well, infiltrate up the board.

Given that Infiltrators aren't as scary in combat, they seem intended to be used in concert- the Infiltrators start much further up the board and then get a Turn 2 charge off, and impose a -1 penalty to enemy Initiative, WS, and Leadership (and BS, but we'll ignore that), so since they have WS/I 4 themselves they have a good chance of sticking around in combat for long enough for the Ruststalkers to run up and then murder the piss out of all the things.

It's not entirely clear from the currently leaked images what the Infiltrators' options are, and Ruststalkers would appear to have no guns whatsoever. I'd say that for Ruststalkers though, you'll want to swap to dual Swords rather than the Knife+Chordclaw; the spare Fleshbane attack will really only help against MCs, and the weapons all auto-Wound on 6's anyways. Not only that, but the Swords offer +1S, so on the charge Ruststalkers can get a really beast S6- S4 base, +1S for FC, and +1S for the Swords.

Oh, and then they wreck any infantry with good armor since on the second round of combat- so presumably the first round of combat when they charge/are charged, and then the second round is the next assault phase- so potentially if they got charged by, say, some GKTs for example, on the Skitarii player's turn the Ruststalkers would suddenly have AP2 combat weapons, and probably slaughter the GKTs.

Praise the Omnissiah indeed.

Also, it's not clear if the Sicarian Infiltrator's Neurostatic Aura rule can stack or if it's just a straight -1; if the former... then I can see some really interesting uses for that, such as locking two units of Infiltrators into combat with some particularly nasty deathstar (or MC) and then bring in some Dragoons or Ruststalkers (or allied choppy squad) to come and smash whatever is tied up.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that the Ironstrider Ballistarii are now terrible because Onager Dunewalkers are amazing and going to probably be way more important?

As an anti-air platform, the Onager is just way better since it gets Skyfire with the Icarus array; given that Serpent spam is still a thing, said Icarus Array is also still pretty chill against Serpents, since Skyfire does permit full-BS against Skimmers and Jetbikes. The Neutron Laser is expensive- especially if you take a full squadron of Onagers equipped with it- but you'll pretty much crack open almost any armored vehicle in the game, and at a longer distance than the goofy Eradication Beamer.

Oh, and Onagers in 3-strong squadrons get a 4++, which vastly improves their survivability as AV12 walkers.
   
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Whiskey144 wrote:
 Verviedi wrote:
Thoughts on the Ruststalkers and Infiltrators?


The two seem designed to complement each other- Ruststalkers are far more dangerous in combat but will have a harder time actually getting there compared to Infiltrators- both units get Dunestrider and the Skitarii Maniple detachment gives Scout moves to everybody, but the Infiltrators can, well, infiltrate up the board.

Given that Infiltrators aren't as scary in combat, they seem intended to be used in concert- the Infiltrators start much further up the board and then get a Turn 2 charge off, and impose a -1 penalty to enemy Initiative, WS, and Leadership (and BS, but we'll ignore that), so since they have WS/I 4 themselves they have a good chance of sticking around in combat for long enough for the Ruststalkers to run up and then murder the piss out of all the things.

It's not entirely clear from the currently leaked images what the Infiltrators' options are, and Ruststalkers would appear to have no guns whatsoever. I'd say that for Ruststalkers though, you'll want to swap to dual Swords rather than the Knife+Chordclaw; the spare Fleshbane attack will really only help against MCs, and the weapons all auto-Wound on 6's anyways. Not only that, but the Swords offer +1S, so on the charge Ruststalkers can get a really beast S6- S4 base, +1S for FC, and +1S for the Swords.

Oh, and then they wreck any infantry with good armor since on the second round of combat- so presumably the first round of combat when they charge/are charged, and then the second round is the next assault phase- so potentially if they got charged by, say, some GKTs for example, on the Skitarii player's turn the Ruststalkers would suddenly have AP2 combat weapons, and probably slaughter the GKTs.

Praise the Omnissiah indeed.

Also, it's not clear if the Sicarian Infiltrator's Neurostatic Aura rule can stack or if it's just a straight -1; if the former... then I can see some really interesting uses for that, such as locking two units of Infiltrators into combat with some particularly nasty deathstar (or MC) and then bring in some Dragoons or Ruststalkers (or allied choppy squad) to come and smash whatever is tied up.

I actually like the infiltrators in combat. With the taser + pistol the can run up and unload a ton of peppery shots and then charge in. Those extra hits from the tazer will mean they will likely hit almost as many times as they have attacks. Then all those hits are str6. So 5 of them get 15 attacks, 15 hits, 12 wounds. Yes they allow armor saves but that isn't a pathetic number of wounds for 5 charging models.

Whiskey144 wrote:

Also, am I the only one who thinks that the Ironstrider Ballistarii are now terrible because Onager Dunewalkers are amazing and going to probably be way more important?

As an anti-air platform, the Onager is just way better since it gets Skyfire with the Icarus array; given that Serpent spam is still a thing, said Icarus Array is also still pretty chill against Serpents, since Skyfire does permit full-BS against Skimmers and Jetbikes. The Neutron Laser is expensive- especially if you take a full squadron of Onagers equipped with it- but you'll pretty much crack open almost any armored vehicle in the game, and at a longer distance than the goofy Eradication Beamer.

Oh, and Onagers in 3-strong squadrons get a 4++, which vastly improves their survivability as AV12 walkers.


Do we know how much the Neutron Laser is? I thought we only knew the Icarus Array price

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 Desubot wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
jSewell wrote:
If I want to put Vanguard in Chimeras, do I have to start them outside of it turn one and then have them hop in and leave the AM soldiers on foot: sorry, noob question -- have never allied


Yes as they are DT

they will probably move to FA by the time 7th ed IG get released


Is there any downside to this other than they'd be vulnerable if you don't have first turn?
   
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 Exergy wrote:
I actually like the infiltrators in combat. With the taser + pistol the can run up and unload a ton of peppery shots and then charge in. Those extra hits from the tazer will mean they will likely hit almost as many times as they have attacks. Then all those hits are str6. So 5 of them get 15 attacks, 15 hits, 12 wounds. Yes they allow armor saves but that isn't a pathetic number of wounds for 5 charging models.


I'm not trying to put down Infiltrators- however it just seems to me that they are really designed to function as a roundabout delivery system for the Ruststalkers- the Infiltrators can pin down and start thinning out an enemy, and then the Ruststalkers can come in and kill all the things. It comes off as being that Infiltrators are good in their own right- but they become an enormously useful force multiplier for the Ruststalkers.

 Exergy wrote:
Do we know how much the Neutron Laser is? I thought we only knew the Icarus Array price


In regards to the Neutron Laser pricing... there was something I saw that pegged it at 45 points, but it was also unsourced, so I don't know if its actually reliable or not. Given that that's the same price as the Icarus Array, there may have been a mixup on that front. Still, I would actually expect the Neutron Laser to be pretty pricey anyways.

It is interesting, however, that Onagers are basically best when field in a sort of anti-MSU setup; rather than taking several Onagers solo, you'll really want to group them up in full-strength squadrons, so as to really maximum the benefit of their invulnerable save rules that allow them to get a 4++ at full strength.

Also, Onagers are AV11 rear, which is somewhat unusual for a walker; on the flipside, they're absolutely terrible in combat. WS3 is okay-ish, but I2 and only one Attack really means that if they get caught in an assault they'll probably spend the rest of the game tied up. Probably want to keep some Flechette Blaster/Taser Goad Infiltrators nearby to rescue them.

That being said, if possible I'd probably want Neutron Lasers for anti-armor duty, since they get S10/AP1 throughout their entire range. In contrast, the Eradication Beamer basically has a reverse Conversion Beamer profile- instead of getting better at longer range, it actually loses raw power and gains AoE.

As an example, Conversion Beamers have the following profile:
Spoiler:
0-18" Heavy 1 S6 AP- 3" Blast
18-42" Heavy 1 S8 AP4 3" Blast
42-72" Heavy 1 S10 AP1 3" Blast

While the Eradication Beamer is:
Spoiler:
0-9" S10 AP1
9-18" S8 AP3 3" Blast
18-36" S6 AP5 5" Blast

Which honestly, I'mt not super impressed with the Eradication Beamer. It's kind of neat and quirky, but I don't think it's a great option- AV12/4++ is better than AV12, but it's not something like an AV13/14 deathbawks with some kind of megadeath gun like a Demolisher Cannon; at short range it's very killy against vehicles while at short/mid range it's potentially nasty against MEQ and vehicles.

At it's longer ranges it's quite unpleasant for T3 or low-save infantry models, particularly with the pie-plate scale template... but considering the other weapons that the Onager can bring, I don't think that the Eradication Beamer is really a great option. If you're bringing it along at really low point levels- like 500-700 or so- then you're probably better off with Ballistarii if you leave the Onager stock.

At larger levels, the Onager comes into its own much better, particularly as a fairly nasty anti-air platform.

What does anyone else think about the Onager vs the Ironstriders?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/03 17:58:47


 
   
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jSewell wrote:
 Desubot wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
jSewell wrote:
If I want to put Vanguard in Chimeras, do I have to start them outside of it turn one and then have them hop in and leave the AM soldiers on foot: sorry, noob question -- have never allied


Yes as they are DT

they will probably move to FA by the time 7th ed IG get released


Is there any downside to this other than they'd be vulnerable if you don't have first turn?


Yes.

You cannot flat out if you just embarked IIRc

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
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Whiskey144 wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
Do we know how much the Neutron Laser is? I thought we only knew the Icarus Array price


In regards to the Neutron Laser pricing... there was something I saw that pegged it at 45 points, but it was also unsourced, so I don't know if its actually reliable or not. Given that that's the same price as the Icarus Array, there may have been a mixup on that front. Still, I would actually expect the Neutron Laser to be pretty pricey anyways.

It is interesting, however, that Onagers are basically best when field in a sort of anti-MSU setup; rather than taking several Onagers solo, you'll really want to group them up in full-strength squadrons, so as to really maximum the benefit of their invulnerable save rules that allow them to get a 4++ at full strength.

Also, Onagers are AV11 rear, which is somewhat unusual for a walker; on the flipside, they're absolutely terrible in combat. WS3 is okay-ish, but I2 and only one Attack really means that if they get caught in an assault they'll probably spend the rest of the game tied up. Probably want to keep some Flechette Blaster/Taser Goad Infiltrators nearby to rescue them.

That being said, if possible I'd probably want Neutron Lasers for anti-armor duty, since they get S10/AP1 throughout their entire range. In contrast, the Eradication Beamer basically has a reverse Conversion Beamer profile- instead of getting better at longer range, it actually loses raw power and gains AoE.

Which honestly, I'mt not super impressed with the Eradication Beamer. It's kind of neat and quirky, but I don't think it's a great option- AV12/4++ is better than AV12, but it's not something like an AV13/14 deathbawks with some kind of megadeath gun like a Demolisher Cannon; at short range it's very killy against vehicles while at short/mid range it's potentially nasty against MEQ and vehicles.

At it's longer ranges it's quite unpleasant for T3 or low-save infantry models, particularly with the pie-plate scale template... but considering the other weapons that the Onager can bring, I don't think that the Eradication Beamer is really a great option. If you're bringing it along at really low point levels- like 500-700 or so- then you're probably better off with Ballistarii if you leave the Onager stock.

At larger levels, the Onager comes into its own much better, particularly as a fairly nasty anti-air platform.

What does anyone else think about the Onager vs the Ironstriders?


Agreed they are terrible in CC. They might need some sort of CC babysitter. They kind of remind me of forgefiends, which are a little better in CC but still rather bad.

The Eradication beamer is wholly disapointing. You likely will never be at the correct range to get the shot you want. For the pieplate, it's an expensive whirlwind with no way to remove cover. For the small blast, it's like an expensive Noise Marine sonic blaster that doesnt ignore cover. For the single shot, dam you are close at 9" away. A multimelta is better at that range, except in ability to ID T5 things.

The Neutron Laser looks awesome, so yes probably expensive. Str10 Ap1 at range, with the doctrine imperitives they could hit a signifigant portion of the time.

The icarus array looks nice as you said for AA and for skimmers.


The safety in numbers thing will be interesting. 3 of them getting a 4++ doesnt sound bad, but once they start to lose one it starts going downhill.

If the shield extends to other units, they will be much better than if not. Particularly with those large bases, a 4" bubble is a lot of realestate


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Whiskey144 wrote:
 Exergy wrote:
I actually like the infiltrators in combat. With the taser + pistol the can run up and unload a ton of peppery shots and then charge in. Those extra hits from the tazer will mean they will likely hit almost as many times as they have attacks. Then all those hits are str6. So 5 of them get 15 attacks, 15 hits, 12 wounds. Yes they allow armor saves but that isn't a pathetic number of wounds for 5 charging models.


I'm not trying to put down Infiltrators- however it just seems to me that they are really designed to function as a roundabout delivery system for the Ruststalkers- the Infiltrators can pin down and start thinning out an enemy, and then the Ruststalkers can come in and kill all the things. It comes off as being that Infiltrators are good in their own right- but they become an enormously useful force multiplier for the Ruststalkers.



The ruststalkers are a little nastier in CC, particularly against things with 2+ saves that you might be able to last against for a second round....(broadsides?) most other things are probably gonna wipe them before they get to round 2, unless you have another unit there to tank hits.

The rustalkers have grenades though. Really tasty grenades that are both assault grenades and haywire grenades. And they can be thrown for 4+ to wound blast. It's like the best grenade ever given to a squad(psycotrope).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/03 18:26:41


Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
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I'm really liking the sound of a squadron of 3 Onagers with Neutron. First turn, turn on that BS7 and your S10AP1 blasts will very likely hit whatever they are trying to hit. You would literally have to roll a 9+ on your 2D6 scatter to not hit what you centered the blast on, vehicles are large too so there's that.

I would say the tactic with the Rust Stalkers is pretty self-explanatory. Get them to combat, and first round doesn't matter much. Turn on that +3 or +2 WS ability on the second round so your now AP2 attacks are hitting on 3s against the targets they are made to attack- WS 4 or below infantry. These guys aren't going to kill MCs or high WS stuff like Lictors I think. The Synergy mentioned with the Infiltrators is pretty interesting, I look forward to seeing the first battle reports on youtube.
   
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You know, this is occurring to me really late, but the base Vanguard guns causing 2-auto-wounds ignoring toughness, on sixes is going to just decimate certain troublesome units. Wraithknights, and half of the Tyranid Codex are gonna be crying.

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