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Its pretty straightforward.

Putting aside the Expanded Universe, which George Lucas repeatedly said wasn't canon, the ending of Star Wars Return of the Jedi is extremely clear cut. The only two sith in the galaxy are dead. The Empire, we can see has been overthrown as our heroes celebrate and we even see the crowds of cheering people on the streets of Coruscant. However, Disney is making it very clear that not only is this not the case, but, in 30 years the rebel alliance has completely failed to achieve any kind of gains. It has not retaken Coruscant, it has not formed the New Republic and apparently is actually staring defeat in the face from whats been gleaned so far.

Firstly, its a clear and shameless retcon of the ending of a great trilogy to milk it and make more films. It also shatters my suspension of disbelief since a war lasting thirty years is just dumb

Secondly, even the expanded universe makes it clear that after five years that the rebels have most of the galaxy and formed the New Republic on Coruscant. They WON the Galactic Civil War and the remaining Imperial Remnants though they repeatedly constitute a mortal threat to the nascent New Republic the power balance definitely shifts. Remember, the rebels ultimate goal is to restore the Republic and Jedi Order; they would not want to remain perpetually as rebels because they see the Empire as illegitimate. And it after just 20 years, the Imperial Remnant is basically contained to a small part of the now Republic held galaxy.

Finally, it indicates that Disney is absolutely obsessed with making these films as much like the original trilogy as possible. Same cast, same setting, everything. They do not want to try anything new and this is a bad thing for any film franchise to do. If even a mild thing like, progressing the plot after the defeat of the Emperor is so unthinkable to them because then we wouldn't have BIG scary empire versus rebels. Even though games and stories like Knights and The Old Republic have shown that you can tell an excellent Star Wars tale without being totally hidebound to the setup of the original film. In TOR both factions are well matched in power for example as they 're locked in a mortal struggle of light versus darkness.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
It also shatters my suspension of disbelief since a war lasting thirty years is just dumb

Yes, a thirty year war, how foolish.

Beyond that, you're talking plot points of an unreleased movie and an EU that has been removed for continuity.

You could put this in the other Star Wars thread...

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

Firstly, its a clear and shameless retcon of the ending of a great trilogy to milk it and make more films. It also shatters my suspension of disbelief since a war lasting thirty years is just dumb

Hundred Years war says "Hi!" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Years%27_War
War of the Roses says "Come get some." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_the_Roses

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

Secondly, even the expanded universe makes it clear that after five years that the rebels have most of the galaxy and formed the New Republic on Coruscant. They WON the Galactic Civil War and the remaining Imperial Remnants though they repeatedly constitute a mortal threat to the nascent New Republic the power balance definitely shifts. Remember, the rebels ultimate goal is to restore the Republic and Jedi Order; they would not want to remain perpetually as rebels because they see the Empire as illegitimate. And it after just 20 years, the Imperial Remnant is basically contained to a small part of the now Republic held galaxy.

How do you know that the remaining Imperials aren't exactly what you've described? The movies aren't out yet, and it's hard to gleam anything from the trailers.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:


Finally, it indicates that Disney is absolutely obsessed with making these films as much like the original trilogy as possible. Same cast, same setting, everything. They do not want to try anything new and this is a bad thing for any film franchise to do. If even a mild thing like, progressing the plot after the defeat of the Emperor is so unthinkable to them because then we wouldn't have BIG scary empire versus rebels. Even though games and stories like Knights and The Old Republic have shown that you can tell an excellent Star Wars tale without being totally hidebound to the setup of the original film. In TOR both factions are well matched in power for example as they 're locked in a mortal struggle of light versus darkness.

The original trilogy was the gak.

TOR was great for gamers. But for the general public? They want to see Mother fething Han in the Mother fething Falcon. Get over it.

I'd at least give the first new film a chance. Maybe JJ Abrams will surprise you.

Also, I'd recommend taking Star Wars with a grain of salt and good humor. The movies have always been first and foremost geared towards children and the selling of toys...not exactly a political science class (although Lucas tried to make it one with Episodes 1 - 3).

There were only people shown celebrating in the streets of Coruscant in the Special Edition versions of the film.

The EU having the Empire be dismantled in 5 years was always one of the more silly concepts and was only possible because they continued to insist that the Moffs would be too busy fighting among themselves and that no one would come around that is that strong.

The Battle of Endor, may have eliminated the Emperor, Vader and the Grand Admiral. Most of the Fleet present, which was only one fleet out of several, was still intact and had done massive damage to the rebels before presumably withdrawing to regroup in the face of the defeat.

With the a mount of loss that the Rebel Fleet suffered, it wouldn't be too hard to believe that they would then have to go on the defensive suddenly. You have to think that for every one person that joined the Rebellion there were still hundred loyal to the Empire and willing to serve. Several Empires through out history have lost an Emperor and not completely collapsed with in 5 years.

So ultimately the Empire would have been able to replace loses to their forces much faster than the Rebellion, who needed donations and secret shipyards to create their Fleet.

And as pointed out by others there are several cases of Wars lasting longer than 30 years.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

Secondly, even the expanded universe makes it clear that after five years that the rebels have most of the galaxy and formed the New Republic on Coruscant. They WON the Galactic Civil War and the remaining Imperial Remnants though they repeatedly constitute a mortal threat to the nascent New Republic the power balance definitely shifts. Remember, the rebels ultimate goal is to restore the Republic and Jedi Order; they would not want to remain perpetually as rebels because they see the Empire as illegitimate. And it after just 20 years, the Imperial Remnant is basically contained to a small part of the now Republic held galaxy.

Look at what happens in real life when the rebels "win". I'm thinking Libya and Egypt here. The first is anarchy and the second's democratically elected president was overthrown by the military after a very short period.

The Post-Imperial period in Star Wars is potentially a very interesting universe to explore.

Cool story. Maybe you should wait until the film, you know, actually comes out?

I could just about accept that they were still fighting the Empire after 30 years. With some shunting of time you could just about explain that in the EU. Which is still a stretch.

What I could not accept was the idea and they have said that they have not formed the New Republic or any kind of government. Plus, the rebels goal is to restore the old order of the Republic. I mean what? Even the American rebels formed the Continental Congress whilst they were rebelling.

The hundred Years war was a series of conflicts and did not last 100 years. The thirty years war was an exceptional case and again was a series of separate conflicts. At any rate, you need to remember that this is a rebellion and one in which we actually see the good guys win.


http://screenrant.com/star-wars-episode-7-empire-villains/

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Its pretty straightforward.

Putting aside the Expanded Universe, which George Lucas repeatedly said wasn't canon, the ending of Star Wars Return of the Jedi is extremely clear cut. The only two sith in the galaxy are dead. The Empire, we can see has been overthrown as our heroes celebrate and we even see the crowds of cheering people on the streets of Coruscant. However, Disney is making it very clear that not only is this not the case, but, in 30 years the rebel alliance has completely failed to achieve any kind of gains. It has not retaken Coruscant, it has not formed the New Republic and apparently is actually staring defeat in the face from whats been gleaned so far.

Firstly, its a clear and shameless retcon of the ending of a great trilogy to milk it and make more films. It also shatters my suspension of disbelief since a war lasting thirty years is just dumb

Secondly, even the expanded universe makes it clear that after five years that the rebels have most of the galaxy and formed the New Republic on Coruscant. They WON the Galactic Civil War and the remaining Imperial Remnants though they repeatedly constitute a mortal threat to the nascent New Republic the power balance definitely shifts. Remember, the rebels ultimate goal is to restore the Republic and Jedi Order; they would not want to remain perpetually as rebels because they see the Empire as illegitimate. And it after just 20 years, the Imperial Remnant is basically contained to a small part of the now Republic held galaxy.

Finally, it indicates that Disney is absolutely obsessed with making these films as much like the original trilogy as possible. Same cast, same setting, everything. They do not want to try anything new and this is a bad thing for any film franchise to do. If even a mild thing like, progressing the plot after the defeat of the Emperor is so unthinkable to them because then we wouldn't have BIG scary empire versus rebels. Even though games and stories like Knights and The Old Republic have shown that you can tell an excellent Star Wars tale without being totally hidebound to the setup of the original film. In TOR both factions are well matched in power for example as they 're locked in a mortal struggle of light versus darkness.

I just saw the trailer. Don't make me stop this car and throw you off a cliff!

They had the Alliance Council, you know the governing body of the Alliance.

The issue is that with out a significant power base you can't form a Government like the New Republic, your Army and Navy is is tatters after a very costly but ultimately successful assault. But the Empire is still out there, they have more equipment, more men and more worlds. You have little to nothing. There won't be a place for a Government. Like wise Imperial Retaliation for the killing of the Emperor would likely be swift and devastating to anyone suspected of aiding the Rebellion.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
There were only people shown celebrating in the streets of Coruscant in the Special Edition versions of the film.

The EU having the Empire be dismantled in 5 years was always one of the more silly concepts and was only possible because they continued to insist that the Moffs would be too busy fighting among themselves and that no one would come around that is that strong.

The Battle of Endor, may have eliminated the Emperor, Vader and the Grand Admiral. Most of the Fleet present, which was only one fleet out of several, was still intact and had done massive damage to the rebels before presumably withdrawing to regroup in the face of the defeat.

With the a mount of loss that the Rebel Fleet suffered, it wouldn't be too hard to believe that they would then have to go on the defensive suddenly. You have to think that for every one person that joined the Rebellion there were still hundred loyal to the Empire and willing to serve. Several Empires through out history have lost an Emperor and not completely collapsed with in 5 years.

So ultimately the Empire would have been able to replace loses to their forces much faster than the Rebellion, who needed donations and secret shipyards to create their Fleet.

And as pointed out by others there are several cases of Wars lasting longer than 30 years.

You re forgetting a big point.

The whole reason the Empire existed wasn't because of an ideology like Communism or Fascism. It existed to serve the will of the Sith. Once both of the Sith were dead then the Empire naturally imploded in a similar way to the Soviet Union once its unifying force (Communism) was gone. Remember, its a civil war between light and darkness not a mortal struggle between two nation states like it is in The Old Reoublic video game qwhere as you say, even without the Emperor that Sith Empire has a massive incentive to keep on fighting. The Empire in the films was never like that. Thrawn makes this clear to Pelleon when he discusses the battle of endor and the emperors death..

Now, you could just explain this away, as I suspect will be the case, by saying that more Sith show up. But there is nothing in the films to suggest that there were ever more than two Sith, in fact prequel makes clear only ever two Sith "a master and an apprentice".

Thing is, though, what did the Rebels actually win in RotJ? Luke himself certainly triumphed over Vader, and Jedi beat the Sith (or at least they think they did. However, there are still millions of people across the galaxy that are Force sensitive, and the Dark Side itself hasn't been eradicated, so there is a high probability of new Dark Side Force Users emerging), but the Rebel Alliance captured one small moon and had a knees-up with the Teddies. In return for taking out the Death Star (something the Empire has recovered from before), they have lost a significant proportion of their fleet.

Yes, the montage at the end of RotJ shows plenty of celebration, but how long will that last once legions of Stormtroopers arrive to put down the 'protests'? There will be a power vacuum for a while, but plenty of high ranking Imperial officials or Commanders to fill it. Meanwhile, the Rebels still have only a fraction of the military power and even less than that in territory compared to the might of the Empire. They are not in a good place, militarily.

None of which undermines the plot/message/conclusion of the OT. Despite the name, the war was only a backdrop for Luke's struggle with his father, who he ultimately ends up beating and redeeming, bringing that to an end. Now, if at any point in these films they bring Vader back as anything more than the Good 'ghost' he became, then that would undermine the OT (not to mention provoke enough nerdrage to punch a new whole in the ozone layer )

As for the length of the war, we've had wars longer than that on one planet between two nations, a conflict across thousands of worlds is of course going to take longer!

To reiterate, the move is. not. out. yet.

I'm all for digging into the the Star Wars universe's political landscape and critiquing the movie, but we have so little to go on. Seems a little preemptive to be casting judgement.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
They had the Alliance Council, you know the governing body of the Alliance.

The issue is that with out a significant power base you can't form a Government like the New Republic, your Army and Navy is is tatters after a very costly but ultimately successful assault. But the Empire is still out there, they have more equipment, more men and more worlds. You have little to nothing. There won't be a place for a Government. Like wise Imperial Retaliation for the killing of the Emperor would likely be swift and devastating to anyone suspected of aiding the Rebellion.

Technically, they actually had worlds like Mon Calamari before the battle of Endor and other places had also similarly revolted. But, again, defeating the Emperor and destroying the bulk of the Imperial navy at Endor was a crippling blow against the Empire. Surely that should be taken into account when you're advancing the setting by 30 years. Why would the rebels not have things more in order?

 Paradigm wrote:
Thing is, though, what did the Rebels actually win in RotJ? Luke himself certainly triumphed over Vader, and Jedi beat the Sith (or at least they think they did.

Of course they won!

Just watch this scene that didn't make it into RotJ!

 Paradigm wrote:
Thing is, though, what did the Rebels actually win in RotJ? Luke himself certainly triumphed over Vader, and Jedi beat the Sith (or at least they think they did. However, there are still millions of people across the galaxy that are Force sensitive, and the Dark Side itself hasn't been eradicated, so there is a high probability of new Dark Side Force Users emerging), but the Rebel Alliance captured one small moon and had a knees-up with the Teddies. In return for taking out the Death Star (something the Empire has recovered from before), they have lost a significant proportion of their fleet.

Yes, the montage at the end of RotJ shows plenty of celebration, but how long will that last once legions of Stormtroopers arrive to put down the 'protests'? There will be a power vacuum for a while, but plenty of high ranking Imperial officials or Commanders to fill it. Meanwhile, the Rebels still have only a fraction of the military power and even less than that in territory compared to the might of the Empire. They are not in a good place, militarily.

None of which undermines the plot/message/conclusion of the OT. Despite the name, the war was only a backdrop for Luke's struggle with his father, who he ultimately ends up beating and redeeming, bringing that to an end. Now, if at any point in these films they bring Vader back as anything more than the Good 'ghost' he became, then that would undermine the OT (not to mention provoke enough nerdrage to punch a new whole in the ozone layer )

As for the length of the war, we've had wars longer than that on one planet between two nations, a conflict across thousands of worlds is of course going to take longer!

Unlike in games like The Old Republic there were only ever two Sith. The death of both of these left the Empire leaderless and without purpose. You could also say that the hold of the dark side on the galaxy and peoples minds faded into nothing.

We also see major rebellions on Coruscant. This is the capital world of the galaxy. Big deal.

In the scene you actually see the Stormtroopers being carried around by the protestors. Made pretty explicit that the army is powerless to do anything about it.

Its actually extremely unbelievable to think the Rebellion would have been able to assert control over the galaxy after the emperor was dead. The Empire didn't just dissolve when he died, and even if they did its a matter of setting up infrastructure.

The Empire has obviously, and very realistically, continued to exist under the Moffs. Someone has probably also established himself as Emperor. Meanwhile, the Empire's loosened grip has allowed the reemergence of force wielders who were suffocated under its oppressive policies.

The Star Wars Glaxey is huge. Millions of planets. Its really shocking the Clone Wars were as short as they were. Something on that scale should have lasted hundreds of years.

 kronk wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Thing is, though, what did the Rebels actually win in RotJ? Luke himself certainly triumphed over Vader, and Jedi beat the Sith (or at least they think they did.

Of course they won!

Just watch this scene that didn't make it into RotJ!

Again, the Empire is not a nation state. It is an entity purely made to serve the Sith. You killed the only Sith (and yes, in the films it was made clear there were only two sith) then they have literally nobody to serve and no reason to exist.

Its like saying that the Soviet Union had millions of troops and a vast amount of territory. It doesn't matter.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
It existed to serve the will of the Sith.

Incorrect.

The Empire came about because the Core Worlds were worried about the power of private enterprise (the Confederation powers) having too much freedom in the Outer Rim.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its actually extremely unbelievable to think the Rebellion would have been able to assert control over the galaxy after the emperor was dead. The Empire didn't just dissolve when he died, and even if they did its a matter of setting up infrastructure.

The Empire has obviously, and very realistically, continued to exist under the Moffs. Someone has probably also established himself as Emperor. Meanwhile, the Empire's loosened grip has allowed the reemergence of force wielders who were suffocated under its oppressive policies.

The Star Wars Glaxey is huge. Millions of planets. Its really shocking the Clone Wars were as short as they were. Something on that scale should have lasted hundreds of years.

Yeah, for comparison, the Horus Heresy lasted 7 years. And that's with warp travel shenanigans.

The Empire is most certainly a nation state.

Besides, the EU was a steaming pile of crap that needed to be tossed. Doesn't matter there were some Crunch bars in it, it all needed to go.

 Manchu wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
It existed to serve the will of the Sith.

Incorrect.

The Empire came about because the Core Worlds were worried about the power of private enterprise (the Confederation powers) having too much freedom in the Outer Rim.

Through the manipulation of the Sith Darth Palpatine who used the fear and power of the dark side to pervert the republic into what it had sought to oppose (the Sith Empire reborn) for thousands of years.

The seperatists had been gone for more than 15 years by the time of the rebellion. By then, the Empire was clearly a brutal police state and one where humans and aliens alike were banding together to overthrow it and restore the freedom of the Old Republic.

So your explanation doesn't make any sense.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Again, the Empire is not a nation state. It is an entity purely made to serve the Sith. You killed the only Sith (and yes, in the films it was made clear there were only two sith) then they have literally nobody to serve and no reason to exist.

Its like saying that the Soviet Union had millions of troops and a vast amount of territory. It doesn't matter.

Do you have a source for this information outside of the no-longer-canon EU?

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
We also see major rebellions on Coruscant. This is the capital world of the galaxy. Big deal.

In the scene you actually see the Stormtroopers being carried around by the protestors. Made pretty explicit that the army is powerless to do anything about it.

Powerless at that moment. You can interpret the scene however you like, but "and then after the camera cuts away the stormtroopers arrive and restore order" is entirely consistent with what we see on-screen.

The rebels were in the clear minority compared to quadrillions of citizens that were members of the empire.

The rebellion was a relatively small organization, not some huge populist movement.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Empire is most certainly a nation state.

Besides, the EU was a steaming pile of crap that needed to be tossed. Doesn't matter there were some Crunch bars in it, it all needed to go.

A nation state means that people within it have a common identity and that the state exists to represent those people. The EMpire is an amalgamation of millions of worlds with vastly different cultures and aliens who used to be part of a federal government. It is an Empire which exists to serve the personal designs of the Sith Emperor. For these reasons its not a nation state.

Now in TOR, this is different. The Sith are the humans and purebloods who fled Korriban from the republic. They formed a state on Dromund Kass and have a strong identity which causes them to oppose the Republic. Many Imperials earnestly believe that the republic wants to exterminate their race and that the Sith represent the only chance of survival. Neccesary evil as it were. The game represents this quite neatly by having all Imperials speak with a Briitish accent (which is referred specifically as an Imperial accent multiple times in the game) and the people of the republic are all American. Its a clever twist.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
There were only people shown celebrating in the streets of Coruscant in the Special Edition versions of the film.

The EU having the Empire be dismantled in 5 years was always one of the more silly concepts and was only possible because they continued to insist that the Moffs would be too busy fighting among themselves and that no one would come around that is that strong.

The Battle of Endor, may have eliminated the Emperor, Vader and the Grand Admiral. Most of the Fleet present, which was only one fleet out of several, was still intact and had done massive damage to the rebels before presumably withdrawing to regroup in the face of the defeat.

With the a mount of loss that the Rebel Fleet suffered, it wouldn't be too hard to believe that they would then have to go on the defensive suddenly. You have to think that for every one person that joined the Rebellion there were still hundred loyal to the Empire and willing to serve. Several Empires through out history have lost an Emperor and not completely collapsed with in 5 years.

So ultimately the Empire would have been able to replace loses to their forces much faster than the Rebellion, who needed donations and secret shipyards to create their Fleet.

And as pointed out by others there are several cases of Wars lasting longer than 30 years.

You re forgetting a big point.

The whole reason the Empire existed wasn't because of an ideology like Communism or Fascism. It existed to serve the will of the Sith. Once both of the Sith were dead then the Empire naturally imploded in a similar way to the Soviet Union once its unifying force (Communism) was gone. Remember, its a civil war between light and darkness not a mortal struggle between two nation states like it is in The Old Reoublic video game qwhere as you say, even without the Emperor that Sith Empire has a massive incentive to keep on fighting. The Empire in the films was never like that. Thrawn makes this clear to Pelleon when he discusses the battle of endor and the emperors death..

Now, you could just explain this away, as I suspect will be the case, by saying that more Sith show up. But there is nothing in the films to suggest that there were ever more than two Sith, in fact prequel makes clear only ever two Sith "a master and an apprentice".

Except the vast majority of the Empire's citizens and Command Staff have no idea that they are a Sith Empire. Remember that Vader being a force user is refereed to as the last of a that ancient religion. The people believe that the Emperor is the man that led them through the Clone Wars and keeps them safe, provides jobs. Its not as simple as you think. The Soviet Union Collapsed because it ran out of money, and then they ultimately gave up communism, it wasn't because they abandoned it.

Also what Thrawn said to Palleon is ultimately irrelevent in the scheme of things as that is no longer canon, and was also a way for them to try and justify the collapse of the Empire from an in universe perspective.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
They had the Alliance Council, you know the governing body of the Alliance.

The issue is that with out a significant power base you can't form a Government like the New Republic, your Army and Navy is is tatters after a very costly but ultimately successful assault. But the Empire is still out there, they have more equipment, more men and more worlds. You have little to nothing. There won't be a place for a Government. Like wise Imperial Retaliation for the killing of the Emperor would likely be swift and devastating to anyone suspected of aiding the Rebellion.

Technically, they actually had worlds like Mon Calamari before the battle of Endor and other places had also similarly revolted. But, again, defeating the Emperor and destroying the bulk of the Imperial navy at Endor was a crippling blow against the Empire. Surely that should be taken into account when you're advancing the setting by 30 years. Why would the rebels not have things more in order?

The Bulk of the Imperial Fleet wasn't present at the Battle of Endor, there were Millions of Imperial Ships at the height of their power. If the bulk of that was present at Endor the Rebel Fleet would have been utterly annihilated and not all of the Imperial Fleet at Endor was destroyed, most of it fled after the battle. Anyway even if the "bulk" was lost, they would still massively out number the Rebel Fleet. Rebel worlds like Dac (The Mon Calamari Homeworld) would have been purged in retaliation for the Emperor's death. Examples would have been made and fear truly would have keep them inline for the time being.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
[But, again, defeating the Emperor and destroying the bulk of the Imperial navy at Endor was a crippling blow against the Empire. Surely that should be taken into account when you're advancing the setting by 30 years. Why would the rebels not have things more in order?

The Imperial Navy was certainly more than a few dozen ships? If anything the entire Rebel Fleet fought two or three battlegroups - they inflicted big and expensive losses on the Empire but also took big losses themself, losses that would be much harder to replace for a bunch of rebels with no access to big shipyards.

Though the Thrawn trilogy does say something about the losses too. Serving on Vader's flagship, the Executor, was a fast track for promotion. A disproportionate amount of the best and brightest junior officers in the Imperial Navy went down with that ship. Pellaeon regretted some of that himself in the trilogy, looking at himself (grey hair and moustache) taking reports from eager shiny-eyed twenty-something old ensigns. In the old days (he thought to himself) such youngsters would never have been on the bridge crew of an Imperial Star Destroyer. The loss of ships wasn't the issue as much as the loss of a large amount of the best up-and-coming officers the Empire had enlisted.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
It existed to serve the will of the Sith.

Incorrect.

The Empire came about because the Core Worlds were worried about the power of private enterprise (the Confederation powers) having too much freedom in the Outer Rim.

Through the manipulation of the Sith Darth Palpatine who used the fear and power of the dark side to pervert the republic into what it had sought to oppose (the Sith Empire reborn) for thousands of years.

The seperatists had been gone for more than 15 years by the time of the rebellion. By then, the Empire was clearly a brutal police state and one where humans and aliens alike were banding together to overthrow it and restore the freedom of the Old Republic.

So your explanation doesn't make any sense.

It makes perfect sense. The Senate was only dissolved during ANH, explicitly thanks to the construction of the Death Star.

Or did you really think one guy managed to change everything about the whole galaxy in about 20 years?

You're being very disingenuous.

Dismissing the EU canon means you can only rely on the films as a source. That ending is absolutely clear that the EMpire has fallen. Robot chicken parodied this BECAUSE that's the accepted ending.


My point is that Disney changing that to make money sucks and they're going about it in a ridiculous manner by saying that the Empire is still going strong after 30 years.