Grenades!

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**Angron**

So I think I came up for a good use for grenades... instead of the "attack simo when charging a unit in cover"..... frag and krak grenades are horrible....

What I thought up while driving an hour and a half in the dark.... buzzed on red bull and trying not to fall asleep.... was to bring back rules for throwing grenades.....

This is how I see it..... grenades would be a one shot item.... thrown six inches... and to make life easy... the entire squad throws them at the same time.... that way there is no having to remember how many grenades are left in the squad. They are fired in the shooting phase instead of the normal weapon.

Frag Grenade 1 pt. Per Model

-Str 3, R 6", Ap 6, Assault 1, Blast

Krak Grenade 2 pt. Per Model

-Str 6, R 6", Ap 3, Assault 1

For a 10 man IG squad.... this gets you 10 Str 6, Ap 3 grenades for 20 points that don't always hit.... for 5 points less than a much better demo charge that's str 9? and fires ordnance. For the Frags... it's 10 points for a much worse effect.... but still worth it against hordes

**alarmingrick**

you'd have to add at least a 1-3" scatter.

**SaimAlendryelII**

Ten weapons that scatter is terrible games design.

There is a reason we don't play 2nd ed.

**Bignutter**

i remeber someone a while ago had a variable version of it
kinda 1 grenade would give a str 2 blast, 2 would give a str 3 blast, 3 would give a str 4 blast, 4 would give a str 4 blast and a str 2 blast....etc

that would make sense in my book- not completely overpowering in that you wouldn't have a dozen templates going down, but would still keep the benefit of having a mass barrage of nades

**Hellbug**

This has come up very often, and the best rule I found for it is the range is the models strength x 2. IG = 6" Space Marine = 8" etc

**Jmznudd**

Multiple little blast markers is definitely not good. But I like the idea of everyone throws the grenades. Here is my idea (whatever that's worth) for frag grenades: Pie plate, Str 4, AP 5, scatters d6. Plate is centered on middle of unit and then scattered. Range: Sx2. Pinning test if more that 25% of models covered by pie plate.

I upped the strength because in reality, a grenade will shred armor and kill alot of people. With a unit of 10 throwing grenades, that makes for a helluva bang. Plus a well thrown grenade can take out a vehicle (read Armor 10 vehicles). Why pinning? Any smart man will dive for cover when they see a grenade. If not, they'll get blown off their feet if they survive the blast. I say 25% of models because if the plate scatters and only snags 1 model, than it becomes too cheezy.

I don't know about krak grenades, b/c I always saw them as shape charges, generally a directional blast. So throwing them makes little sense.

I miss the days of 2d ed grenade throwing, but it was a little too complicated. Of course I miss the days of 2d ed vehicle ramming, and that will probably never come back

-Jmz

**Phoenix**

I'm all down for bringing back thrown grenades, but some though needs to go into it to keep things from getting silly. A squad of 10 guys, each throwing a blast template is defiantly in the realm of silly. The pie plate thing probably isn't the best of ideas either since you'll end up with things like single characters lobbing them, or a squad with krak grenades and then a lone vet sergeant with frag tossing in the pie plate. Lets also not forget point cost. 1 point each is a good price for frag grenades as they are now (2 for krak isn't but that's something else) but will it be for whatever upgrade they get? The other thing to think about is do you want guys throwing grenades and then assaulting? I know I for one would be really really scared to see a 10 man jump pack assault squad fly 12 inches over to me, toss 10, BS4, S6, AP3 shots at me and then charge into hand to hand. If they are going to do something sick like that I defiantly want them paying more than 2 points each for that kind of shooting attack. On the up side, rhino based grenadier squads would be viable.

Here are some thoughts that might be incorporated into the idea.
1) Make frag grenades multi shot weapons (assault 2 perhaps). You will end up with the multi-hit feel of templates without the major pain in the rump of putting down 5-10 templates and rolling (and arguing over) partials.
2) Put frag grenades on some sort of sliding scale where the stats for the grenade toss changes based on how many members are in the squad (much like the old one shot flame throwers sister cultists got). So you might toss a pie plate (or simply just get a hit on everyone in the attacked squad) that's strength 1, +1 for every 2 (or 3) squad members you have after the first....or something like that (possibly topping out somewhere)
3) Krak grenades are probably best left as a simple "shooting" weapon but their point cost will have to accurately reflect their usefulness.

So think about it.

**foil7102**

It is easier than that. Frag Grenades add +1 attack to each model armed with them in addition to strike at init 10.

Models armed with Krak grenades may forgo their normal attacks and instead get one str 6 ap 3 attack at normal init. In addition, Krak grenades may only be used when a unit is making or receving a charge.

**alarmingrick**

"...in addition to strike at init 10."
seems a little too much. or the grenade would have to be
very expensive.

**Jmznudd**

Posted By Phoenix on 05/01/2006 2:40 PM
I'm all down for bringing back thrown grenades, but some though needs to go into it to keep things from getting silly. A squad of 10 guys, each throwing a blast template is defiantly in the realm of silly. The pie plate thing probably isn't the best of ideas either since you'll end up with things like single characters lobbing them, or a squad with krak grenades and then a lone vet sergeant with frag tossing in the pie plate. Lets also not forget point cost. 1 point each is a good price for frag grenades as they are now (2 for krak isn't but that's something else) but will it be for whatever upgrade they get? The other thing to think about is do you want guys throwing grenades and then assaulting? I know I for one would be really really scared to see a 10 man jump pack assault squad fly 12 inches over to me, toss 10, BS4, S6, AP3 shots at me and then charge into hand to hand. If they are going to do something sick like that I defiantly want them paying more than 2 points each for that kind of shooting attack. On the up side, rhino based grenadier squads would be viable.

Here are some thoughts that might be incorporated into the idea.
1) Make frag grenades multi shot weapons (assault 2 perhaps). You will end up with the multi-hit feel of templates without the major pain in the rump of putting down 5-10 templates and rolling (and arguing over) partials.
2) Put frag grenades on some sort of sliding scale where the stats for the grenade toss changes based on how many members are in the squad (much like the old one shot flame throwers sister cultists got). So you might toss a pie plate (or simply just get a hit on everyone in the attacked squad) that's strength 1, +1 for every 2 (or 3) squad members you have after the first....or something like that (possibly topping out somewhere)
3) Krak grenades are probably best left as a simple "shooting" weapon but their point cost will have to accurately reflect their usefulness.

So think about it.

This isn't bad, but I think you need to have an "all or nothing" rule. If you have 10 guys, they all have to buy grenades, they all have to throw them at the same time (Vet Sgt's included). They all have to be the same type of grenade. Otherwise, think of the chaos in tracking all this stuff. This is why I suggested a pie plate and a standard strength. But, as you alluded to, there is a difference between 10 guys throwing grenades and 5 guys throwing grenades. Maybe a middle ground. A pie plate for area coverage, start at S3 for the weapon for the first 5 guys. For the next 5 guys, the S is +1 (so S4 for 10 guys, S5 for 15 guys, etc). This helps the horde armies. Effects cannot be combined (ie 2 units cannot combine their grenade throws to increase the strength of the weapon, they would be 2 separate attacks). The Assault 2 idea isn't a bad idea either, I just prefer mine

Of course, after reading all these different ideas and issues, I'll assume this is why GW eliminated grenades. :S

-Jmz

**foil7102**

Doh, you are right, I ment "also gets to strike at the same int as targets in cover."