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I am moving away from my guard to build a Nid list and any feedback would be most welcome.

1 Hive Tyrant @ 188 Pts
   Adrenal Glands +1 In; Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Bio-plasma; Flesh Hooks; Toxic Miasma; Winged; Scything Talons (x2); Synapse Creature; The Horror; Warp Blast

1 Hive Tyrant @ 148 Pts
   Adrenal Glands +1 In; Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Bio-plasma; Flesh Hooks; Toxic Miasma; Scything Talons (x2); Synapse Creature; The Horror; Warp Blast

22 Hormagaunts @ 220 Pts
   Scything Talons

22 Hormagaunts @ 220 Pts
   Scything Talons

1 Carnifex @ 148 Pts
   Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Barbed Strangler; Venom Cannon

1 Carnifex @ 149 Pts
   Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Flesh Hooks; Barbed Strangler; Venom Cannon

1 Carnifex @ 149 Pts
   Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Flesh Hooks; Barbed Strangler; Venom Cannon

1 Carnifex @ 114 Pts
   Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Flesh Hooks; Twin-linked Devourer (x2)

1 Carnifex @ 114 Pts
   Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Flesh Hooks; Twin-linked Devourer (x2)

3 Ravener @ 120 Pts
   Rending Claws; Scything Talons (x1)

3 Ravener @ 120 Pts
   Rending Claws; Scything Talons (x1)

2 Lictor @ 160 Pts
   Feeder Tendrils; Flesh Hooks; Rending Claws; Scything Talons

Total Roster Cost: 1850

Brave Rifles

Allright, let's see...

1 Hive Tyrant @ 188 Pts
Adrenal Glands +1 In; Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Bio-plasma; Flesh Hooks; Toxic Miasma; Winged; Scything Talons (x2); Synapse Creature; The Horror; Warp Blast

In my experience, you don't need I6. Most things with I5 or higher will *usually* need 6's to wound the tyrant anyways, so isn't a huge concern. Things that wound the tyrant more easily will be powerfists, which go last anyhow, or things like witchblades (get your armor save), or agonizers. The tyrant has the speed and mobility to choose his targets, so choose wisely, and position him so that he won't get hit by that hidden powerfist in the first round of combat. Also, there is no need for both +1WS and Toxic Miasma. They both serve the same purpose, except miasma makes WS3 into WS2, thus requiring 5+ to hit the tyrant. Drop one or the other... don't take both. Bio plasma is a bad idea all around. When you charge an enemy and kill a model with bio plasma, a smart opponent will remove the one model in BTB with the tyrant, thus denying you the rest of your 6 attacks. Ouch! Drop this biomorph ASAP. I like Warp Field on my flyrant, but it is a personal preference thing, I guess.

1 Hive Tyrant @ 148 Pts
Adrenal Glands +1 In; Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Bio-plasma; Flesh Hooks; Toxic Miasma; Scything Talons (x2); Synapse Creature; The Horror; Warp Blast

Unlike the winged tyrant, a walking tyrant doesn't have the luxury of fast movement to choose his targets. A walking tyrant armed with close combat biomorphs is a large waste of points, much like a close combat carnifex is. Drop all the close combat biomorphs and bioweapons, and arm him with *atleast* a venom cannon, and some other weapon... devourers make use of his high number of attacks in the statline, but have shorter range. Barbed strangler has range to match the venom cannon, but is only S5. Enhanced Senses will be a must have, with guns, so that he hits on 3+. Instead of warp blast, take shadow in the warp to help ward off librarians. Tyrant guard are also a good idea... atleast 2 at 1850.

Otherwise, the rest of the list looks pretty solid. No need for flesh hooks on the shooty fexes, but at 1 point a pop, I'm assuming you just stuck them in to fill points... drop them if need be, to make room for the above changes. Could also drop one of the broods of raveners to make room for the tyrant guard, and move the three raveners into three serperate fast attack slots.... that gives you three completely seperate units, each a scoring unit, and each another target the enemy has to worry about. Think of it as "not putting all of your eggs in one basket"

Aw, man, Gabe suggested most of what I was going to note or ask.

But, I do have one thing - the Lictors. What do you plan to do with them? Is it something that could be done either with more gaunts or some Genestealers instead? (Especially with the points you may be saving or shaving soon.)

Since you're not going for a choir, I would say that Shadow in the Warp for the walking tyrant is something you should think about, though I'd also say that leaving warp blast on is not a horrible idea either.

For the flying Tyrant, I have to agree you need to drop Miasma and Bio plasma. Personally, I'd drop warp blast for either Warp Field or Psychic Scream. Shooting is absolutely not what this guy wants to be doing.

Now, for the walking tyrant - why make him close combat when you can make him a good shooter and back him up with Guards to handle his CC for him?

Heck, if you really want to, drop the Lictors for another Gunfex and use the remaining points on Guards for the walker.

The lictors are probably there mainly for the reserve rerolls, since there are a large number of MCs in this list. Escalation can easily kill a godzilla army's chance of victory, so having those rerolls can be a godsend.

He already has 3 heavy gunfexes, so the points saved from the lictors would be used for a third dakkafex, more hormagaunts, or the tyrant guard.

Also, I just thought... why not split the hormagaunts into 4 broods of 10 each? I normally don't like to use such small broods of gaunts, but in a semi-zilla list like this, it could work pretty well.. again, more scoring units, more targets...

Thanks for the replys guys. Yea the lictors are there for the rerolls on escalation. I think your right about changing the walking tyrant to a shooter.

What is a dakkaflex?

I am working on incorporating the suggestions into the list and I will post it  for more feedback in a bit.

Brave Rifles

What is a dakkaflex?

Fex with 2 Twin linked Devourers... I think Yakface invented them or something, hence the Dakka. Hmmm... maybe they should be called the Yakkafex.

Your list is pretty good. Not so sure about the Lictors... You play alot of Non-MEQ?

You gonna run the Hormies behind the MC's? They are pretty fragile for the points.

I'd read the Tactica: Carnifex here if you haven't already - honestly, I thought you had! Your carnifex choices line up with it very well.

I understand the lictors for escalation, but I dunno. I just don't like sinking that many points into something that has as much trouble on the average board as a Lictor tends to.

Brave Rifles:

Check out the "articles" section of Dakka (at the very top of the page), I wrote a tactica on equipping carnifexes.

I didn't make up the Dakkafex or Gunfex titles, but many seem to use those same naming conventions on this forum at least.

I've seen them on a half dozen or so other forums. When it comes to tactics and such, I find that Dakka is referenced more than any other site.

Bio plasma is a bad idea all around. When you charge an enemy and kill a model with bio plasma, a smart opponent will remove the one model in BTB with the tyrant, thus denying you the rest of your 6 attacks.

Would it be worth it if you can position your tyrant such that on the charge you get into base contact with two enemy models?  Then even if the opponent removes one BP kill, you're still in base contact with the other and so you'd still get the rest of your attacks.  Or is this a situation that doesn't occur often enough to compensate for the one-contact situation?

 

When you charge with the flying tyrant, you can only ever make contact with one enemy model, as it is a single model.

Brave Rifles

Salutes
Veterans!

I'd lose some raveners and/or a lictor to give the walking tyrant some tyrant guard. The more T6 wounds the better.

Suppose the HT is equidistant from two adjacent enemy models.  Can't the HT charge both of them?  It seems to me that the HT would be charging the "closest" model because they're both equally close. 

Maybe this belongs in YMTC?

LotSloths:

Remember that not only must a model move towards the target unit by the shortest possible route. But you are right. If two enemy models are exactly equidistant and the Tyrant is set up in a perfect position that the shortest route puts his base in contact with both it can happen.

Unfortunately unless you're fudging the Tyrant's move a little to contact mulitple bases, this situation shouldn't actually occur very often.

Of course you can always choose not to use Bio-Plasma when you charge, but then I personally don't think it is worth the points on a game-to-game basis.

Posted By winterman on 05/04/2006 5:28 PM

Brave Rifles

Salutes
Veterans!

I'd lose some raveners and/or a lictor to give the walking tyrant some tyrant guard. The more T6 wounds the better.

I am not actuallyy a veteran, I took the name because my cousin is serving in the 3rd Armored Cav.

Here is the changes I have made based on the article and your feedback.

1 Hive Tyrant @ 176 Pts
   Flesh Hooks; Toxic Miasma; Winged; Scything Talons (x2); Synapse Creature; The Horror; Warp Field

1 Hive Tyrant @ 268 Pts
   Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Twin-linked Devourer (x1); Venom Cannon; Synapse Creature; The Horror; The Shadow in the Warp
   3 Tyrant Guard @ [135] Pts
      Rending Claws; Scything Talons

10 Hormagaunts @ 100 Pts
   Scything Talons

10 Hormagaunts @ 100 Pts
   Scything Talons

10 Hormagaunts @ 100 Pts
   Scything Talons

10 Hormagaunts @ 100 Pts
   Scything Talons

1 Carnifex @ 153 Pts
   Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Spine Banks; Barbed Strangler; Venom Cannon

1 Carnifex @ 153 Pts
   Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Spine Banks; Barbed Strangler; Venom Cannon

1 Carnifex @ 154 Pts
   Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Flesh Hooks; Spine Banks; Barbed Strangler; Venom Cannon

1 Carnifex @ 113 Pts
   Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Twin-linked Devourer (x2)

1 Carnifex @ 113 Pts
   Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Twin-linked Devourer (x2)

2 Ravener @ 80 Pts
   Rending Claws; Scything Talons (x1)

2 Ravener @ 80 Pts
   Rending Claws; Scything Talons (x1)

2 Lictor @ 160 Pts
   Feeder Tendrils; Flesh Hooks; Rending Claws; Scything Talons

Total Roster Cost: 1850

My thought is that the MCs would provide cover for the advancing HGs. When the HGs are close enough to charge, normally turn 2, they will burst out from behind while gunflexes work over those armor and infantry units not engaged. The winged HT will provide fast moving synaspe and CC power while the lictors and raveners will provide harsment and the lictors rerolls.

Oh thhe spine banks on a the flexes is because I had 16 points and wasn't sure what to do with them.

Brave Rifles

I think toxin sacs on the flying tyrant will serve you better than spine banks on the gunfexes.

I am not actuallyy a veteran, I took the name because my cousin is serving in the 3rd Armored Cav.

Ahh, that is cool, I was with 3ACR for my short stint in the army. I pray for his safety as I heard they were being (or are) redeployed back to Iraq. BTW I posted the salute/veteran thing because that is the 3rd ACR salutation (ie Enlisted/junior salutes officer and says "Brave Rifles, sir" The officer returns the salute with "Veterans!")

Your new list looks much better. I'd personally swap warp field and/or switch some hormies for spinaguants inorder to get the extra wounds on the heavy carnifexes.

Do unupgraded hormies do enough damage to be considered an offensive weapon?

I was under the impression that they were pretty exclusively a tie up something unil the big guns get there sort of unit.

Anarchist: The only thing un-upgraded hormies are going to kill is non-MEQs. They are generally a tie-up unit.


Rifles: I think you're going to have trouble keeping 40 Hormagaunts and 4 Raveners all within Synapse range of your Flying Tyrant, especially in Escalation missions. Yeah the two Lictors will help you get the Flying Tyrant on quick, but if some of the Hormagaunts don't show up until later turns they are going to be stuck playing catch-up or else have to hang out with the walking Tyrant.

I think you should dump at least two of those units and take Spinegaunts instead. It'll give you more bodies, and their speed matches with the walking Tyrant a bit more.

I'd also suggest splitting one of those two-man Ravener units into two units of one (for more flexibility).

I am wondering if the guants should be replaced with ripper swarms or genesteelers. That way they would not be effected by the need for synaspe.

Brave Rifles

Rippers suck. Seriously.

Spinegaunts do everything Rippers do (well, besides being Fearless on their own) but better.

so should I be looking at one large unit of Hormoguants and several smaller units of spineguants?

The reason I ask is it appears as though Hormoguants are for tying units up in CC so having a large unit of them would make that easier.

Thoughts?

On the contrary, several smaller units is better. Makes it more difficult for opponents to target, the hormies are fearless in any case, so casualties don't phase them, and it is far easier to tie up multiple targets.

So yeah, multiple small units are better in general with nids.

Posted By The Happy Anarchist on 05/10/2006 12:19 PM
On the contrary, several smaller units is better. Makes it more difficult for opponents to target, the hormies are fearless in any case, so casualties don't phase them, and it is far easier to tie up multiple targets.

So yeah, multiple small units are better in general with nids.

I completely agree.  Small units are much better with 'Nids.  Also, if you have one unit of 20 Hormagaunts, and you lose 11 models, you no longer have a scoring unit.  If you have two units of 10 Hormagaunts, and you lose 11 models, you still have a scoring unit, regardless of how the casualties are distributed.

hmm i personaly have very good experiences with groups of 16 hormagaunts.they need some punch if they should reach the enemy.2  groups of 5 each on theire own are allready dead and dont help much in CC, one group of 10 that reaches the enemy has much higher chances to win CC.

i wouldnt missinterprete what yakface siad about the tie up unit.
in my list i run 2*16 unupgraded packs assisted by 2*8 genestealers and 2*16 spinegaunts. that would leed you away from the godzilla list.i dont have experiences with godzilla lists because i personaly like the zerg variant where many little things die in fountains of blood - just a personal oppinion that it should look that way for a more funny game.

anyway, hormagaunts serve very well in killing non meq units, they did theire points and more in my games against imperials because the opponent focused on gunning down my stealers.i havent played against other races so far, but i think that they should work very well against meq units if they are upgraded as theyre stats change similar like the opponent stats from imperial standart soldier to meq does.
you also have to see that in some way and even if it sounds odd you need some genestealers to protect you hormagaunts from fire. this may sound like a bad idea and the intent is not to pull your stealers up in front and let him gun them down. running with only hormagaunts will draw all anti infatry fire on your hormagaunts and kill them pretty fast - upgraded hormagaunts would be to expansive. i believe that you should run them upgraded if you expect to have more meq enemies than non meq. running them with stealers which are feared for theire rending ability will protect the eventually underestimated hormagaunts (even more needed if they are upgraded).stealers are easier to hide due to a smaler footprint for the same points.in the end none of your troops are suited well to withstand fire, so my doctrine is not to focus on stuff that you cant do well but to build on stuff that your guys do well (anyway 4+ armor on stealers is needed !). as all of your units can be harmed easyly youll need many bodys which then have big footprints so that cover is luxus. so your opponent will be able to shoot units in the open anyway. so you can as well place most of the smaler beasts in the open as he cant shoot at all of them and will shoot at those not in cover anyway. if all your teams in the open are targets of even value for your opponent (which you should try to archive) his ability to pick out units of relative high value is minimised. so your opponent will either fear the stealers or the hormagaunts more and focus on firing on one of this types which is where your MCs have to jump into the gap to provide damage against armor (in the likely case he took the stealers) or infantry. if he should have focused on the hormagaunts you still got plenty of anti infantry power in front with your stealers.

in the end i would use hormagaunts to kill infantry - only good experiences with that so far. use stealers to have anti armor cc capability on infantry that the opponent will fear and try to protect them as good as possible (use cover for them if everything in your army apart from gaunts allready has cover). if you just want to tie up something, use spinegaunts.if you use infantry, use many to bring more percent of your points accross the fixed amount of anti infantry fire or use only very cheap spinegaunts (every one of thoese that died did his job very well).

hmm at this points im thinking about even posting this, because you obviusly want to go godzilla and not infantry. well, more information and other ppls. exp. is allways a good thing to have. good luck.

hmmm I got some more thinking to do.

btw what is a MEQ unit

See the Dakka Jargon Glossary in the Dakka Discussions forum.