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I once wanted to make a Middenheim-themed army. Well, since End Times was so kind and destroy the city, that project went on hold. Now with AoS, what do we know about the planes? Is everything discovered or are there gates that could lead to new worlds? I am kind of imagining it to be like Spell Force, where gates connect the shattered world. Same with AoS? Because maybe there is a plane where I can build the new city of Middenheim with my Middenheim themed army.

Any input? Cheers

I think have the jist of it.

AoS is open ended enough presently that there are "free peoples" (descendents of the old inhabitants if the Old World) spread all over the Realms duking it out with Chaos.

Effective GW have left themselves (and us) room to recreate any sort of Old World nation you can think of.

Your planned Middenhiem force will still be a valid choice if that's what you choose to go with.

 Trade_Prince wrote:
I once wanted to make a Middenheim-themed army. Well, since End Times was so kind and destroy the city, that project went on hold. Now with AoS, what do we know about the planes? Is everything discovered or are there gates that could lead to new worlds? I am kind of imagining it to be like Spell Force, where gates connect the shattered world. Same with AoS? Because maybe there is a plane where I can build the new city of Middenheim with my Middenheim themed army.

Any input? Cheers

Cheers!

I had a thread about this a ways back, in terms of "are there normal people?"

So far, I'm unaware of depictions of functioning human cities, outside of Sigmar's own realm of Azyr, which is essentially a golden utopian city ringworld populated with humans, elves and dwarves. I don't believe at this point the culture of Azyr has been given enough background to know what it's like there, but we know from one picture that Empire models (priests, a war altar, and flagellants) are depicted fighting alongside the Stormcast.

The human cities in the realms, so far, are those of long dead empires which have been destroyed by Chaos, with humans living as refugees.

The question then is, where could a New Middenheim be established? We have the following realms to work with, along with the species I expect will eventually be depicted to live there:

Azyr - golden celestial city realm (Stormcast)

Aqshy - realm of fire. Lots of lava, volcanos, ash, etc (Chaos)

Shyish - realm of the dead (Undead)

Ghyran - realm of life (Wood Elves)

Hysh - realm of light (High Elves)

Ghur - realm of beasts (Orcs, Goblins, Ogres, Beastmen, etc)

Chamon - the realm of metal (Chaos Dwarves, possibly dwarves in general)

Ulgu - the realm of shadows (Dark Elves)

Chaos - realm of chaos (All Chaos, all of the time)


Based on this... we're written a bit into a corner. The worlds are much too specific and mystical/elemental in nature to just be a place where humans happen to live, without the theme of the realm influencing the people too much.

On the other hand, we know we have Stormcasts blasting their way through the Chaos tainted realms, taking land back for Sigmar, and presumably for ordinary people. Take the current conflict on Aqshy - the Stormcast should be able to beat Chaos out of the lands here as they're fresh and prepared while Chaos has let its guard down in the wake of generations of total victory.

With the victory achieved, those Stormcasts will be flooding through the Realm Gates to move on to new conquests, and Azyr will be rebuilding the ruins that sit around those hard won realmgates to establish new colonies. That means cities that look like a patchwork of recent construction and ancient pieces, with armies raised from Sigmar worshipping mortals who must defend these new territories, and mop up remaining Chaos armies and forces of destruction that the numerically few Stormcast did not deal with.

The trouble is, the End Times killed Ulric extra-dead, and Middenheim was all about Ulric. Like, twice - Teclis stole his power first, then Archaon got him, and Sigmar mourned him, and that's that. But, it has been an enormously long time, and vanquished gods seem to be popping back up left and right. It's possible that amongst the human survivors who made it out of the End Times, the legend of Ulric remained, and with it honor and worship. That's basically all a god needs to exist, so perhaps the dead god has been reborn in his new people?

Why not just ignore the GW fluff and make the army you want?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Why not just ignore the GW fluff and make the army you want?

This too, is a pretty good option.

I have a feeling we've not heard the last of the Old World either - we have decades of miniatures in circulation depicting the Empire and Brettonia among others, a roleplaying game set there, even new videogames set there. So, I'd say it's also entirely functional to just make a Middenheim army, and tell any opponent they represent the forces of the original city as they appeared before the End Times. We're already used to thinking up reasons why Lizardmen are fighting Bretonnians when they live on opposite sides of the planet, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to take that a step further and have pre-End Times forces fighting in AOS rules, since that's what most people have in their collection to play with for the foreseeable future.

Oggthrok wrote:

 Trade_Prince wrote:
I once wanted to make a Middenheim-themed army. Well, since End Times was so kind and destroy the city, that project went on hold. Now with AoS, what do we know about the planes? Is everything discovered or are there gates that could lead to new worlds? I am kind of imagining it to be like Spell Force, where gates connect the shattered world. Same with AoS? Because maybe there is a plane where I can build the new city of Middenheim with my Middenheim themed army.

Any input? Cheers

Cheers!

I had a thread about this a ways back, in terms of "are there normal people?"

So far, I'm unaware of depictions of functioning human cities, outside of Sigmar's own realm of Azyr, which is essentially a golden utopian city ringworld populated with humans, elves and dwarves. I don't believe at this point the culture of Azyr has been given enough background to know what it's like there, but we know from one picture that Empire models (priests, a war altar, and flagellants) are depicted fighting alongside the Stormcast.

The human cities in the realms, so far, are those of long dead empires which have been destroyed by Chaos, with humans living as refugees.

The question then is, where could a New Middenheim be established? We have the following realms to work with, along with the species I expect will eventually be depicted to live there:

Azyr - golden celestial city realm (Stormcast)

Aqshy - realm of fire. Lots of lava, volcanos, ash, etc (Chaos)

Shyish - realm of the dead (Undead)

Ghyran - realm of life (Wood Elves)

Hysh - realm of light (High Elves)

Ghur - realm of beasts (Orcs, Goblins, Ogres, Beastmen, etc)

Chamon - the realm of metal (Chaos Dwarves, possibly dwarves in general)

Ulgu - the realm of shadows (Dark Elves)

Chaos - realm of chaos (All Chaos, all of the time)


Based on this... we're written a bit into a corner. The worlds are much too specific and mystical/elemental in nature to just be a place where humans happen to live, without the theme of the realm influencing the people too much.

On the other hand, we know we have Stormcasts blasting their way through the Chaos tainted realms, taking land back for Sigmar, and presumably for ordinary people. Take the current conflict on Aqshy - the Stormcast should be able to beat Chaos out of the lands here as they're fresh and prepared while Chaos has let its guard down in the wake of generations of total victory.

With the victory achieved, those Stormcasts will be flooding through the Realm Gates to move on to new conquests, and Azyr will be rebuilding the ruins that sit around those hard won realmgates to establish new colonies. That means cities that look like a patchwork of recent construction and ancient pieces, with armies raised from Sigmar worshipping mortals who must defend these new territories, and mop up remaining Chaos armies and forces of destruction that the numerically few Stormcast did not deal with.

The trouble is, the End Times killed Ulric extra-dead, and Middenheim was all about Ulric. Like, twice - Teclis stole his power first, then Archaon got him, and Sigmar mourned him, and that's that. But, it has been an enormously long time, and vanquished gods seem to be popping back up left and right. It's possible that amongst the human survivors who made it out of the End Times, the legend of Ulric remained, and with it honor and worship. That's basically all a god needs to exist, so perhaps the dead god has been reborn in his new people?

Pretty much in many ways.

Humans are in at least 7 of the 9 Realms. I'm not sure about Death, and any "human" in the Realm of Chaos would have been either a Daemon Prince or a Spawn. Some have turned to Chaos, some are fighting it, and some are just trying to avoid both and survive.

Middenheim could now be a strong bastion in the Realm of Beasts. The humans there having a racial memory of Ulric and the White Wolf or just have recreated the imagery after all these years through similar pressures.

They could also be one of the cities breeding warriors in the Celestial Realm to act as foot soldiers "training" to become Stormcast.

Many different ways of putting it in to the game these days, and all could apply. For all we know, there is a Middenheim in all 8 of the Realms that Sigmar created, with each having a slightly different Wolf they revere.

Charistoph wrote:

Humans are in at least 7 of the 9 Realms. I'm not sure about Death, and any "human" in the Realm of Chaos would have been either a Daemon Prince or a Spawn. Some have turned to Chaos, some are fighting it, and some are just trying to avoid both and survive.

There are live humans in the Death realm, they are referenced very briefly in the hardcover book.

Charistoph wrote:

Oggthrok wrote:

 Trade_Prince wrote:
I once wanted to make a Middenheim-themed army. Well, since End Times was so kind and destroy the city, that project went on hold. Now with AoS, what do we know about the planes? Is everything discovered or are there gates that could lead to new worlds? I am kind of imagining it to be like Spell Force, where gates connect the shattered world. Same with AoS? Because maybe there is a plane where I can build the new city of Middenheim with my Middenheim themed army.

Any input? Cheers

Cheers!

I had a thread about this a ways back, in terms of "are there normal people?"

So far, I'm unaware of depictions of functioning human cities, outside of Sigmar's own realm of Azyr, which is essentially a golden utopian city ringworld populated with humans, elves and dwarves. I don't believe at this point the culture of Azyr has been given enough background to know what it's like there, but we know from one picture that Empire models (priests, a war altar, and flagellants) are depicted fighting alongside the Stormcast.

The human cities in the realms, so far, are those of long dead empires which have been destroyed by Chaos, with humans living as refugees.

The question then is, where could a New Middenheim be established? We have the following realms to work with, along with the species I expect will eventually be depicted to live there:

Azyr - golden celestial city realm (Stormcast)

Aqshy - realm of fire. Lots of lava, volcanos, ash, etc (Chaos)

Shyish - realm of the dead (Undead)

Ghyran - realm of life (Wood Elves)

Hysh - realm of light (High Elves)

Ghur - realm of beasts (Orcs, Goblins, Ogres, Beastmen, etc)

Chamon - the realm of metal (Chaos Dwarves, possibly dwarves in general)

Ulgu - the realm of shadows (Dark Elves)

Chaos - realm of chaos (All Chaos, all of the time)


Based on this... we're written a bit into a corner. The worlds are much too specific and mystical/elemental in nature to just be a place where humans happen to live, without the theme of the realm influencing the people too much.

On the other hand, we know we have Stormcasts blasting their way through the Chaos tainted realms, taking land back for Sigmar, and presumably for ordinary people. Take the current conflict on Aqshy - the Stormcast should be able to beat Chaos out of the lands here as they're fresh and prepared while Chaos has let its guard down in the wake of generations of total victory.

With the victory achieved, those Stormcasts will be flooding through the Realm Gates to move on to new conquests, and Azyr will be rebuilding the ruins that sit around those hard won realmgates to establish new colonies. That means cities that look like a patchwork of recent construction and ancient pieces, with armies raised from Sigmar worshipping mortals who must defend these new territories, and mop up remaining Chaos armies and forces of destruction that the numerically few Stormcast did not deal with.

The trouble is, the End Times killed Ulric extra-dead, and Middenheim was all about Ulric. Like, twice - Teclis stole his power first, then Archaon got him, and Sigmar mourned him, and that's that. But, it has been an enormously long time, and vanquished gods seem to be popping back up left and right. It's possible that amongst the human survivors who made it out of the End Times, the legend of Ulric remained, and with it honor and worship. That's basically all a god needs to exist, so perhaps the dead god has been reborn in his new people?

Pretty much in many ways.

Humans are in at least 7 of the 9 Realms. I'm not sure about Death, and any "human" in the Realm of Chaos would have been either a Daemon Prince or a Spawn. Some have turned to Chaos, some are fighting it, and some are just trying to avoid both and survive.

Middenheim could now be a strong bastion in the Realm of Beasts. The humans there having a racial memory of Ulric and the White Wolf or just have recreated the imagery after all these years through similar pressures.

They could also be one of the cities breeding warriors in the Celestial Realm to act as foot soldiers "training" to become Stormcast.


Many different ways of putting it in to the game these days, and all could apply. For all we know, there is a Middenheim in all 8 of the Realms that Sigmar created, with each having a slightly different Wolf they revere.

I belive in general all realms have all the races mixed but still a majority of each like the realm of life also has nurgle living there as well as wood elves, tree things, beastmen and maybe even orcs etc... I think the whole point of th realms is to give each race a stronghold not bound by borderlines but still have the ability to interact with each other, like how did wood elves ever fight tomb kings? in AoS it makes a little more sense..

but you could just say the city got "teleported" into the warp and became as standlone city with its own minor god (god of middenheim) and the city is constantly fighting daemons, or you could say some powerful mages saved the city and its now travelling the warp like a craft world of the elder, or trapped in limbo etc... anything goes

I too gained a renewed interest in an Empire army with the release of AoS. The background is still very much in the planning stages but currently thinking an Averland based army. The empire map shows that province to be open area and not heavily wooded. This would work with my wanting to make frequent use of mounted troops such as pistoliers or whatever. Having the Old Dwarf Road works in with my idea of the General being in favor of an alliance with the Dwarfs because he see it as in the best interests of the Empire.

Although having read this thread looks like I'll have to make some changes. I wanted him to be a Captain in the Old World and then promoted in AoS since there would be fewer Humans left.

Well, considering AoS seems to take place hundreds, perhaps thousands of years after the End Times... he may need to be a bit more than promoted... maybe reforged as a Stormcast?

Rihgu wrote:
Well, considering AoS seems to take place hundreds, perhaps thousands of years after the End Times... he may need to be a bit more than promoted... maybe reforged as a Stormcast?

Thousands. After the world blew up, Sigmar actually rounded everyone up and everything was peaceful for a while. THEN things went all to pot (again).

It's funny. There's enough time between old world and new world that they could write another game for the in-between, LOL!

Vyxen wrote:
After the world blew up, Sigmar actually rounded everyone up and everything was peaceful for a while.

So does this mean there could be a remnant Empire somewhere that has held onto it's traditions and beliefs?
Or at least recovered them in present day after Sigmar sets loose the Stormcast Eternals.

I was happily building an altdorf army when the Glotkin smashed the city to pieces in the End Times...

Now I'm not sure what to do with the fluff of my army. It is becoming more of an "order" army as it includes units from other armies. For example some High Elf characters and some Dwarven war machines.

I was thinking perhaps my army represents a force from the Age of Myth. Or maybe a far away pocket in the Realm of Beasts or Life that has been hidden from chaos all this time.

I find the realms of beasts and life to be the only ones that make sense. I'm sure they have crazy geology too, but atleast they will be green :-p