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Hey guys. It's been a while now with no responses so I thought I'd give a brief update on some thoughts I've had about the list. I'm thinking of losing an obliterator to pump up the bike squad as I'm worried about it's survivability - especially as it's such an integral part of the list. Also, I'd have spare points to upgrade the leiutenant a bit to boost his close combat effectiveness. How useful will a one man obliterator squad be though? I quite want to keep at least one in the list though, since my bro's got the model.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

You could always just give them a Talisman of Burning Blood, giving them a better chance of running forward an extra d6". Your lietennant is listed as 15 points too many, so check that. Two Defilers is a lot of firepower for a 1500 army, especially one that has few marines. If you want to still do something similar, definitely pump up the bike squad to 5 or 6 - that will be the primary target for at least the first turn of your opponent. A one-man obliterator isn't that useful - for a few more points, you can get a whole squad of 5 with heavy weapon, much harder to kill. I'm a firm believer in having more troops, especially for an undivided army.

Come on guys - some of you must have opinions on this!(thanks for yours tzeenchling)  I'm trying to get this bought and painted for Medusa V so any comments would be much appreciated.

I've now decided to swap the three 6 man squads of Daemonettes for two 10 man squads, and added daemon chains to the daemonhost, bringing the total points to 1500.

The questions I have are -

Are two Defilers too many? If so will one do? I can't help but think a solitary Defiler wouldn't last long enough to get anything done.

If I were to get rid of one or both of the Defilers, what would be the best thing to replace them with?  More las/plas squads?  I like the idea of a pair of infiltrating plasma-filled havoc squads maybe with tooled up aspiring champs.

Am I too low on bodies in the list as it stands?

And finally, would the las/plas squad marines be better with bolters or bolt pistols and c.c.weapons?  I would imagine bolters since they're going to be sitting and shooting.

Thanks!

Well...  Firstly, it is not a deamon bomb army list.

The main problem with the list: Min maxing means lots of dead marines.

The only real anti infantry threat you have are the 2 defilers, and most skilled players will spread their troops out and move within 36" range so you have to fire directly, and they can be shot back at.

3 bikes won't live, the deamon will be released with the death of the champion, not the ideal way to have it done.

I'd suggest you drop a defiler, and bulk up all your units.  You are not playing Emperors Children so why are you're units all 6?  (Speaking of which... why don't you just play emperors children? is it just for the bloodthirster?)

Can you even have a bloodthirster and deamonettes in the same list?

Basically.. the army is way to frail, especially against Eldar and Dark eldar who will wipe out 1/3rd of your army on the first turn.

-Legacy40k

In what sense is it not a daemon bomb army?  I presume I've got the definition wrong.

I can definately have the bloodthirster and daemonettes - it's only if my army's led by a guy with a mark of khorne that I can't have slannesh daemons.

It's a Black Legion army purely for modelling purposes. I want it to be competitive, but not at the expense of the cool conversions and stuff I have in mind.

Other than increasing squad sizes, what would you reccomend I do to improve my anti-infantry firepower (assuming I lose a Defiler)?

having two defilers is a crutch,  If I see an army with 2 defilers, it obviously means that the army really needs them to function that one was not enough, so they are a primary target to destroy.

What is wrong with increasing squad sizes?  less likely to break, harder to drop below 50% so they can not rally or score...  3 wounds to each of your units (how hard a time do you have doing 3 wounds to a unit?) and you have no scoring units left, then what do you do?

a deamon bomb army is something like:

Deamonprince of slannesh with summoning icon and deamonic speed and 5 or so minor psychic powers (To get siren),  the rest of the army is deamonettes.  he walks up untargetable and summons a whole ton of deamons into the enemy lines.

-Legacy40k

Hi Cerebaton,

Somewhat late for me to reply, sorry for that (I was checking this threads progress since the beginning but didn't come round to posting).

Your list got me thinking. And I've come up with an alternative which I'll present in a moment. First though, I must say I disagree with Legacy 40k's replies - although I do agree that your list is frail. IMO this is a Daemonbomb; a DB list isn't a fixed format, it's any Chaos list that heavily depends on getting close and then dropping a nice surprise. Also, I wouldn't increase squad sizes and really like the idea of two Defilers in a list like this. BTW; Slaanesh and Khorne can be used together (since your MoCU Lieutenant is the commander).

I'll give you an alternative and then discuss why I think it would improve upon the concept.

Lieutenant - Bike, Dark Blade, MoCU, Meltagun, Pers Icon

2 Obliterators

6 CSM - Las/Plas Infiltrate, MoCU, Icon

6 CSM - Las/Plas Infiltrate, MoCU, Icon

6 Daemonettes

6 Daemonettes

6 Daemonettes

8 Furies

6 Mounted Daemonettes

3 Bikers - Meltagun, MoCU, Icon

Defiler

Defiler - Searchlicht

1500 points - 52 models - 11 scoring Units

The power of the Defilers in this list is the fact that they have range (and thus - IMO - don't need Indirect fire) deploy the way at the rear. The DB concept of the previous list is that you will present most opponents with a very immediate and close threat. Opponents will be forced to direct fire onto the Icons and the Daemons or they will be overrun. Any opponent directing fire at the Defilers will be facing your Daemons - and Legacy already confessed to shooting the Defilers - a bad idea in the list I presented.

The list I presented has left out the Bloodthirster and gained 3 scoring units and 13 models. The thing that worries me about your list is the modelcount, 39 models is low in 1500 points and too low for a list like this. The three extra scoring units are paramount -  especially since most of the scoring units are rather fragile. Most of all, the damage output of my list is higher at marginal costs. The Bloodthirster is replaced with Mounted Daemonettes and Furies. Combined these units are at least as damaging and definately more durable and a higher threat to your opponent because of their mobility. Also I've downgraded the Bikers since their only real function in the list is getting the Daemons to the enemy. About the CSM squads: don't give them Tankhunter! Infiltrate is what gets the Daemons close and where you want them. That is worth much more than a better chance to destroy a tank. Lastly the Indirect Fire on the Defiler: I think you can do without for two reasons. On one hand the minimum range for IF is 36'' (kinda low on a standard 6x4 table) and on the other hand as I said: a good opponent will recognise that the Defilers aren't the biggest threat in your armie and shoot the Icons. Any opponent that rather shoots the Defilers is working into your gameplan - and in that case you have your redundancy in having two of them.

Shaving points I've found the room for the two additional Obliterators you had in the first list. If you wan't a Bloodthirster like model you could replace the Obliterators with a cheap Daemonprince like:

Lord - Stature, Flight, 2 CCW's, MoCU, Icon, Strength, Aura

for 137 points.

(In your list I'd go with two Obliterators).

Anyway, just some pointers. Nice to see another Chaos list. Keep us posted as to the progress of the list.

Cilithan out...

 

 

 

I run a Word Bearers list that looks very similar to your list, here are my thoughts...

Do not run any less than 5 bikes ever. You are just asking to be shoot up on the way to your target.

My advise, drop the Lietenant, a Deamonette Squad, and a Las/Plas squad. You need no other HQ than the Blood Thirster. Use the bikes to cram the Icons down you oponents throught and use them as a distraction. Take a Rhino Squad with Plasma guns and make that AC the Deamonhost. Keep the two Defilers but give them both Indirect Fire to take out enemy Indirect or hiding Skimmers as welll as big blocks of infantry. Give all your CSMs on foot Tank Hunters, you are never garunteed Infiltration, and you will thank me once you play against a skimmer heavy force. Give your bikes Skilled Rider so they can laugh at terrain.

Enjoy

Not a bad list, but definitely lite on the bikes. I'd try to get more and like Mahu said ditch the HQ choice and only take a thirster. Indirect is still useful if only to punk out units that are hiding or to eliminate your opponents indirect. Capt k

When the BloodThirster is only HQ choice, than the Deamonhost counts as the General. That's how you take Deamonettes in an army lead by a Bloodthirster. Tank hunters will serve you much better on the Marines than Infiltrate.

Beyond that, get some playtesting in and see how you like it!

Ah - awesome, thanks for clearing that up Mahu.

Yea, playtesting is what I need to do - just wanted advice before I went out and spent a bazillion pounds on plastic!

Thanks for the help guys.

Hi Cerebaton,

The revised list is beginning to look very much like a winner to me. In loosing the second Defiler you've oppened up a lot of possibilities.

Some notes:

Mahu; I disagree very much. With all the Daemonettes and the Thirster he definately doesn't need more tankkilling power. What he does need is a way to get the Daemons in close to prevent them from getting shot before they reach assault. Infiltrate provides that. With Tankhunters immagine an escalation mission. Bikers start of the board and the daemons will arrive a tableslength from the opposition: very bad idea!

Also, Cerebaton take a second look at the fast Daemons (Furies and Mounted Daemonettes) They provide a second necesity. What you need is Daemons that are guaranteed to reach combat when summoned; the resulting combat will block a lot of LOS and reduce the chance of you being shot up.

For Comparison I'll post my list, as I said it's similar although I've focussed on more CC-power/speed and less shooting.

113 - Lord, Stature, Flight, 2CCW, Frag, MoCU, Pers Icon

125 - Lieut, Bike, Dark Blade, Melta, MoCU, Pers Icon

110 - 5 CSM, Missile, Plas, Inf, MoCU, Icon

110 - 5 CSM, Autoc, Plas, Inf, MoCU, Icon

101 - 5 CSM, Hvy Bolter, Flam, Inf, MoCU, Icon

208 - 8 Bloodletters

90 - 6 Daemonettes

90 - 6 Daemonettes

120 - 8 Furies

168 - 6 Mounted Daemonettes

115 - 3 Bikers, Plasma, MoCU, Icon

150 - Defiler

1500 points - 55 models, 10 scoring units

Mine performs very well, I know yours will too.

Greetings, and good luck with the list, let me know how it does,

Cilithan out...

Tank Hunters are for the hundreds of Skimmers you will face that the Deamonettes will hardly ever work. Good luck facing Mech. Tau or Skimmer heavy Eldar. As far as Escalation goes, I never though about it (all the games and Tournaments I go to rearly have Escalation). This is why I sublested a Rhino Squad. THe only problem with Infiltration is that you are not garunteed to get it.

Mahu is correct. Infiltration isn't guaranteed and Escalation is a rarity in tournaments anyways. I'd still have one unit that can infiltrate..if only to deny my opponent a good deployment opportunity with theirs. Mahu is also correct about skimmers and daemonettes, run the math on it and you will see that it is very difficult to take down the bigger skimmers (falcons, hammerheads) with 6 daemonettes. Plus the down side to that is that if you fail to damage the tank, it can just fly away. Now you are all bunched up just asking for a submunition round to wipe your unit out. Capt K