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Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

So, I've been looking into branching into Cygnar. And whilst I'm dead set on the haleys and Nemo3, I've been looking at eCaine a lot. The only issue with him is that until now, I could never settle on a list.

That being said, my current draft for him is:

eCaine
Squire(2)
Ace(7)

Gun mage adept(2)

Gun mage adept(2)

Lieutenant Allison Jakes(3)
Triumph(11)

Silver Line Stormguard(9)

Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Pistoleers(6)
UA(2)


Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Pistoleers(6)

Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team(4)



The plan is to set up a firing arc and just go for the caster kill from 19" with Caine, Ace, and Triumph. The first two have True shot which means that they can happily sit in terrain and go for it. Triumph will require careful placing as he will need to get to 16" to use his arcane precision.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/11 12:22:58


Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

Check my blog that I just started: http://unionfaux.blogspot.co.uk/ 
   
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Brisbane

Reinholdt and the Lady/Master would really help with that assassination. Unless they're locked into your other list I would really recommend them.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

 motyak wrote:
Reinholdt and the Lady/Master would really help with that assassination. Unless they're locked into your other list I would really recommend them.


I use them a lot in my Menoth. The issue here is that I'd need to drop the Black 13th+2 point solo/ua or the adepts+UA to fit them in.

Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

Check my blog that I just started: http://unionfaux.blogspot.co.uk/ 
   
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Brisbane

Well with Reinholdt and Harm I don't think you need Triumph's shot, so the adepts could go and he could become a defender if you're set on such a shooty list.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

 motyak wrote:
Well with Reinholdt and Harm I don't think you need Triumph's shot, so the adepts could go and he could become a defender if you're set on such a shooty list.


Then I lose a model who is a self reliant shot that can drop an AoE that ignores stealth. I like the idea of Aiyana and Holt+Reinholdt, but there is nothing I can drop without making the list more reliant on the Black 13th.

At the moment, the only things that rely on them are the Gun Mages without the UA and Jakes.

Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

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The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Triumph is very very overcosted for what he does, its basically a forum gag over on the PP forums how bad he is. You already have gunmages for killing stealth models, most of which will be seriously overkilled by Triumph's AOE. Stealth models are almost always very squishy, so pow10s are sufficient.

You could drop Trumph and give Jakes two charger's instead and still have 3 additional points, while quadrupling the number of shots you get a turn. Or only give her one and have 7 points to play with.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/11 19:17:43


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in au
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Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

 thedarkavenger wrote:
 motyak wrote:
Well with Reinholdt and Harm I don't think you need Triumph's shot, so the adepts could go and he could become a defender if you're set on such a shooty list.


Then I lose a model who is a self reliant shot that can drop an AoE that ignores stealth. I like the idea of Aiyana and Holt+Reinholdt, but there is nothing I can drop without making the list more reliant on the Black 13th.

At the moment, the only things that rely on them are the Gun Mages without the UA and Jakes.


Thing is, a Defender in this instance can shoot a warcaster when it starts 13" away, which isn't really that bad compared to Triumph's range. And it almost isn't necessary with the Lady and Reinholdt. With these models Caine will, against most casters, be reliably hitting POW 19+ on feat turn. That makes Triumph's 1 shot much less relevant, especially when the Defender can still add a shot from a decent distance as well, and in this scenario the gun mages are all POW 12 if they're trying to pitch in on the assassination as well, instead of POW 10.

If you're building this specifically to deal with stealth casters, then lets look at some of the stealth/similar ability casters. You have Lylyth2, who outranges you and the majority of her usual army you can't hurt much with all your POW 10s, Kaya2, whose beasts you can't kill with all your gunmages, Thyra....nevermind haha, Strakhov you could be looking good into, but you struggle to hurt his shield walled models with your units, Old Witch you will probably put down, and on and on down the list. Basically your huge amount of POW 10s will mean you are more likely to struggle with the armies these casters will bring

If you're building it to deal with stealthed units like banes or mage hunters, you have to consider that mage hunters with Ravyn are going to out threat your gun mages, especially in tier, and things like Banes, if they're taken with a caster they often are like pSkarre, are going to be next to unkillable by your gun mages for a turn before they get in there and mess them up.

That's why I feel the extra damage from the Lady is really necessary if you're sticking to a list full of POW 10s. To at least help bump them up to be something that might be able to pitch in when you come up against anything like that. And why I think her and Reinholdt's inclusion can make it worth dropping Triumph and a Gun Mage solo or two or something.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
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Fake Englandland

 thedarkavenger wrote:
 motyak wrote:
Well with Reinholdt and Harm I don't think you need Triumph's shot, so the adepts could go and he could become a defender if you're set on such a shooty list.


Then I lose a model who is a self reliant shot that can drop an AoE that ignores stealth. I like the idea of Aiyana and Holt+Reinholdt, but there is nothing I can drop without making the list more reliant on the Black 13th.

At the moment, the only things that rely on them are the Gun Mages without the UA and Jakes.

Gun mage's UA gives them Truesight, so that's 7 models with a decent toolbox of abilities, the ATGMCA is not that great of a solo, if you drop one of those, drop Triumph for a normal Defender, you can afford A&H, the B13 also have Truesight, so that's another group that can ignore stealth.

Also, I did out the list in Warroom, and it came out to 54 points, leaving you with a free point to grab Reinholdt if you want him that badly, unless I am doing something out wrong.
If I was doing this however, I would drop Triumph, he's pretty bad honestly, he has the same gun as a Defender, but can ignore stealth, spend a focus to use a blast, and has no melee game to speak of, all for too many points, IMO he's one of the most pointless Character Jacks, but that's a personal issue.

I would say, drop Triumph like a bad habit, grab a Charger for Jakes, drop the Gun Mage solos, you'll have the points to get A&H, and the glorious Forgeguard to give you something to hit hard with, but that might be a personal bias, I think they're the best thing since sliced air.
eCaine (+5)
Squire 2
Ace 7
Allison Jakes 3
Charger 4
ATGM 6
UA 2
ATGM 6
B13 4
Silverline 9
Forgeguard 8
Aiyana & Holt 4

Shadowrun is the best game ever. It's the only thing I have ever played in which I have jumped out of a shot out van with a chainsaw to cut a flying drone in half before leveling a building with ANFO assisted by a troll, a dwarf, an elf, and a wizard. 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

The issue with Triumph, and I know he's not the best, is that for the list in hand, I don't really need stuff that is reliant on certain models. If I could drop the 13th for another UA, I would in a heartbeat.

And dropping him, as bad as he is, for a defender, makes the 13th even more of a lynchpin. Especially as I play against Circle, or Coven almost exclusively.

The entire idea for this list is to cancel out the stealth on the coven/entirity of circle(it seems) and get all the shots that ignore stealth. The reason I take Triumph for this is that He can get an AoE on the Egregor which splashes onto the witches as well as land an AoE on them to deal two loads of damage to them.

As for mercs, I'm planning on not using any, unless I'm backed into a corner about it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/12 20:26:36


Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Only a bad player would let you drop an aoe on the egregore while the wytches are all btb. If you can do that the gun mages will be just as effective at killing them.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Fake Englandland

Okay, if the biggest concern in the world to you is that apparently Stealth is the only thing you face ever, build a new list. Go for melee. Stealth is the thing shooty armies don't like it, so take the fight to THEM. That, or grab Siege, he has the Mage Sight spell, and take an Avenger, it's cheaper than triumph, has a 4" AOE, range of not super amazing, but it's not as bad as Triumph is, and if you direct hit something, ALL models are knocked down that are under the AOE, and it's a better chance of catching some models with that than Triumph's 3" AOE. But honestly, take stuff for melee. Most Stealth models will not have super high ARM if it's a normal ability, not given by a spell, if it's from a spell, well, you better get the charge in first. Take something like Stormblades/Lances, I don't know, but really, Mercs have some good melee units, like Nyss Hunters, Forge Guard, or Boomies.

Shadowrun is the best game ever. It's the only thing I have ever played in which I have jumped out of a shot out van with a chainsaw to cut a flying drone in half before leveling a building with ANFO assisted by a troll, a dwarf, an elf, and a wizard. 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Only a bad player would let you drop an aoe on the egregore while the wytches are all btb. If you can do that the gun mages will be just as effective at killing them.


It's a dual purpose threat, if I can get it once, that's great. If not, it's no big deal. I will happily use Triumph as bait to let me get the shots off with other models. I'm probably going to use Triumph to stop him going in b2b with the egregor to be honest.

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
Okay, if the biggest concern in the world to you is that apparently Stealth is the only thing you face ever, build a new list. Go for melee. Stealth is the thing shooty armies don't like it, so take the fight to THEM. That, or grab Siege, he has the Mage Sight spell, and take an Avenger, it's cheaper than triumph, has a 4" AOE, range of not super amazing, but it's not as bad as Triumph is, and if you direct hit something, ALL models are knocked down that are under the AOE, and it's a better chance of catching some models with that than Triumph's 3" AOE. But honestly, take stuff for melee. Most Stealth models will not have super high ARM if it's a normal ability, not given by a spell, if it's from a spell, well, you better get the charge in first. Take something like Stormblades/Lances, I don't know, but really, Mercs have some good melee units, like Nyss Hunters, Forge Guard, or Boomies.


Stealth isn't the biggest concern in the world to me. I don't mind dropping Triumph. BUT, that requires taking a lynchpin(Black13th), which I just won't do. Ace and Triumph are both self reliant ranged 'jacks that can ignore stealth/defensive stuff without outside influence. Which is why, out of all the warjacks available to me, I took them.

As for taking Siege, I do plan on grabbing him. And I don't run him as an anti stealth caster.

To further raise upon your post regarding melee, why should I change a list that's designed to be a threat to the caster from over 19" away for something that requires me getting up into melee to be a threat? And I already said I'm not taking mercs, as good as they are.

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Brisbane

Just to be clear, you do play with scenarios right? Because you can't stay at 19" if you don't want to lose on scenario. But this becomes a whole other ball game if you guys are just playing caster kills. I think we have been working off the assumption you are playing Steamrollers though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/13 13:27:10


I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

 motyak wrote:
Just to be clear, you do play with scenarios right? Because you can't stay at 19" if you don't want to lose on scenario. But this becomes a whole other ball game if you guys are just playing caster kills. I think we have been working off the assumption you are playing Steamrollers though.



I play a mix. If I go steamroller, I run a caster-kill based Siege list, and a scenario based Haley1 list. This is just for flat out caster killing.

Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

Check my blog that I just started: http://unionfaux.blogspot.co.uk/ 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

So, I've looked at all the available options with regards to dropping Triumph, and none of them can be used without making the Black 13th a lynchpin for the rest of the list.

If anyone has a suggestion where I can drop Triumph without needing the 13th as a method of dropping stealth, cover and concealment, then I'll be happy to do so.

Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

I think you are far far too focused on wanting to remove or deal with stealth. Its a Caine list. The only thing his lists exist for is to deliver Caine to an assassination, you don't need to ignore stealth to do that.

And viewing Triumph as a solution to your stealth problems is hugely flawed, he's absolutely terrible.

Drop Triumph and both Captain Adepts for a Charger on Jakes, Boomhowler and Co, and Madylin Corbeau.

This will give you a sorely needed jam unit, get you better ranged power, and you'll have access to Intrigue for Caine.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

 Grey Templar wrote:
And viewing Triumph as a solution to your stealth problems is hugely flawed, he's absolutely terrible.


Not just as a jack, but as a solution to stealth. If you want to kill stealth stuff you have to aim, so you aren't a mobile threat, and then you hit. Well done, you killed 1 infantry model, because no one who has stealth models leaves them clumped together ready for AOE 3's. You missed? Well then you haven't moved so you've stood still, you now scatter off the model and maybe clip another. That's assuming they don't have any tech (Kruger, Rahn, etc) to mess with your AOE floating. So at best you're killing 1 guy really. With a huge points investment jack who cannot pitch in when the enemy is up in your face next turn. Really any AOE jack is probably a better bet than Triumph for what you're trying to do, multiple in faction casters (Kraye, Siege) can run the stormwall better such that it is lighting up stealthed models while putting down covering fire to be safe from the other stealthed models that it doesn't get to kill, and then it can still pitch in in a huge way in melee. Triumph really just doesn't add anything to the list in light of the rest of your in faction options.

I mean you seem set on him and you'll probably have fun, maybe shoot a shadowpacked beast or something once in a turn, but unless they've put that beast a mile away with no threat extension, that beast will then cripple Triumph next turn. Hell one of the main stealth casters like that (lyl2) doesn't even get into threat range of triumph before she kills him...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/16 04:17:31


I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 motyak wrote:
Hell one of the main stealth casters like that (lyl2) doesn't even get into threat range of triumph before she kills him...


Nah, she doesn't kill Triumph. She just kills Caine and Jakes instead.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/16 05:51:31


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

 Grey Templar wrote:
 motyak wrote:
Hell one of the main stealth casters like that (lyl2) doesn't even get into threat range of triumph before she kills him...


Nah, she doesn't kill Triumph. She just kills Caine and Jakes instead.


True. God I dislike playing lyl2

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I think you are far far too focused on wanting to remove or deal with stealth. Its a Caine list. The only thing his lists exist for is to deliver Caine to an assassination, you don't need to ignore stealth to do that.

And viewing Triumph as a solution to your stealth problems is hugely flawed, he's absolutely terrible.

Drop Triumph and both Captain Adepts for a Charger on Jakes, Boomhowler and Co, and Madylin Corbeau.

This will give you a sorely needed jam unit, get you better ranged power, and you'll have access to Intrigue for Caine.



No. What I'm trying to fixate on is not having a majority of points locked out of the game on the first few turns because it cannot get around almost effective armywide stealth beyond relying on 3 models, who are insanely fragile. There is literally nothing in the faction I can switch Triumph out for that will not turn the 13th into a lynchpin for the rest of the army, barring the Gun Mages with UA and Ace.

As for the list, it's to provide a failsafe so that I don't need to rely solely on Caine2 without any support.

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Brisbane

That's the thing. The choice you're making is to kill 2 infantry models/damage 1 jack those first two turns at the cost of any relevant late game effectiveness.

At least that's how I (and I imagine Grey, although I hesitate to speak for him) view your inclusion of triumph.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

 motyak wrote:
That's the thing. The choice you're making is to kill 2 infantry models/damage 1 jack those first two turns at the cost of any relevant late game effectiveness.

At least that's how I (and I imagine Grey, although I hesitate to speak for him) view your inclusion of triumph.


I'm looking to maintain a 3" aoe on a stealthed unit from turn 2 onwards. Or turn 1 if I start second. In an army that is actually quite fragile overall, that's a worthy tradeoff. Especially against Cryx and Circle, who don't really run especially beast/jack heavy.

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Brisbane

You'll need, at worst usually, 5s to hit. You won't be missing much. So I dunno what you mean by maintaining an AOE, you'll drop it on a guy who'll die because pow 15 then you'll be engaged the next turn basically.

Could you describe how you see him working against an enemy stealthed army? If possible use an actual example from your meta? That'll really help me understand where you're coming from

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

 motyak wrote:
You'll need, at worst usually, 5s to hit. You won't be missing much. So I dunno what you mean by maintaining an AOE, you'll drop it on a guy who'll die because pow 15 then you'll be engaged the next turn basically.

Could you describe how you see him working against an enemy stealthed army? If possible use an actual example from your meta? That'll really help me understand where you're coming from


How will I need 5s to hit stealthed units? Unless I take 2 chargers shooting from within 5" I'll miss automatically. With Triumph, I can shoot from 21" away, and drop an AoE from 15" away.

As to an example concerning my local meta, Triumph would deal with Thralls/Any unit with Occultation/Kalyssa's feat/Denny1 from a safe distance, as opposed to the pair of chargers. The only matchup I wouldn't use the aiming AoE in is Khador, as I generally face the Old Witch or Butcher3.

Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

The real way to deal with stealth is not to directly hit the target, its to drop a bunch of templates instead and kill the squishy jerks with blast damage. Stealth'd beasts are rare, and on the occasions they do appear its best to just go for melee instead. Triumph isn't going to be able to kill a Stalker or a Stealth legion beast before they make it into melee, at which point he becomes even more useless because he is even more useless in melee.

In addition, most beasts that can be given stealth threat 15" or close enough to where its not going to help. You'll get one shot off with Triumph before he dies or gets made totally irrelevant.

Triumph is also NOT the answer to Bane Thralls. You'll kill one of them a turn, and it'll have a 33% chance of not actually dying too. What does kill Bane Thralls are gunmages and the Black 13th.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

 thedarkavenger wrote:


How will I need 5s to hit stealthed units?


RAT 7, aiming so you can see the stealth units, meaning RAT 9. Most stealth units (apart from the odd few like Hex Hunters who are lucky because legion) are DEF 14 at most, until you start getting spells involved (since the concealment won't affect it either if you're aiming). So that's a 5 to hit on average. Which means you'll hit more often than not. Which means you hit, say, a Bane Thrall, kill it 2/3 of the time, and the AOE hits nothing else and then disappears because it doesn't remain in play. So your expensive jack has killed 1 bane. Maybe. 2/3 of the time.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Unless I take 2 chargers shooting from within 5" I'll miss automatically. With Triumph, I can shoot from 21" away, and drop an AoE from 15" away.


Unsure what you mean here, Triumph can shoot stealthed models at most 19" away with Jakes. He can drop an AOE at most at that same range. If he's shooting that deep and using the AOE he's not boosting to hit or damage, so you either run the risk of missing a higher def stealth unit (because of a spell) or doing bugger all damage to a jack or beast that has stealth.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
As to an example concerning my local meta, Triumph would deal with Thralls/Any unit with Occultation/Kalyssa's feat/Denny1 from a safe distance, as opposed to the pair of chargers. The only matchup I wouldn't use the aiming AoE in is Khador, as I generally face the Old Witch or Butcher3.


As Grey said, it really doesn't deal with Bane Thralls (the only stealth thralls short of occultation) that well. It doesn't deal with any of the other thralls who could get occultation either for the same reasons. Kaelyssa's feat you're still only hitting 1 model. Denny can start from 21" away and feat on you and then have your Triumph die, meaning you can't shoot her before she feats on you, which often spells the end for a jack like Triumph because he'll either be engaged from now on by satyxis (who'll kill the junior running him right dead) or because he'll be dead himself (probably by the same satyxis/whatever they want to throw in because it's Denny's feat).

Although Old Witch is one of the few armies he's a legit threat against the caster of, because she relies so much on stealth. So really that's one of the armies you listed that it might actually be worth aiming and having Triumph for haha. Although the rest of her army is a problem for your gun mages and what not, needing 8 to hit if they can aim (winter guard/Kayazy/9s for Nyss), needing 9s to hurt (Iron Fangs) or other problems. But he is definitely a threat to her if you can't engage him and stop him shooting, which Khador can probably do pretty well.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

Well, after much consideration, I've come to the realisation, that if I were to take this list as a main list in a steamroller scenario, I'd probably drop triumph for a regular defender.

As for this list, with all the issues you raised, a normal Defender will suffer from them all, and give absolutely nothing back, despite the defender needing to be exposed to a lot more risk.

Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

Check my blog that I just started: http://unionfaux.blogspot.co.uk/ 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

The Defender isn't a good jack either. But it at least is far cheaper and can actually contribute in melee.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Defender isn't a good jack either. But it at least is far cheaper and can actually contribute in melee.



That's not what I'm looking for though. The reason I'm building this list is for a long ranged threat list that can never be hidden from.

Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

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Made in us
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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 thedarkavenger wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
The Defender isn't a good jack either. But it at least is far cheaper and can actually contribute in melee.



That's not what I'm looking for though. The reason I'm building this list is for a long ranged threat list that can never be hidden from.


I think you have an unrealistic view of how shooting works in WMH.

Shooting is almost never going to win you the game, outside of assassination. Shooting exists to weaken stuff enough so you can finish it off in melee, and there are enough lists which can rapidly engage shooting lists to make shooting not a viable choice for your entire battle plan(which is what you seem to be doing).

Pure shooting doesn't work in WMH. You need to have a balance between shooting and melee if you want to have shooting be a viable part of your list, and taking overpriced and ineffective shooting components doesn't let you do that.

Again, I am assuming you are playing Steamroller or some form of scenario which forces you to commit to the center. Playing assassination against a gunline is hilariously unbalanced and shouldn't be done.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
 
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