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I hope so because it is one of the most illuminating books as far as background information on the 40k universe goes.

And I want to talk about it!!

But I don't want to spoil things for people...

That is unless you wish to know my secret knowlege... by secret knowledge I mean it's readily available for $7.99

Well?

NdC,

I read it.  I was quite pleased with it, but I have high expectations for Dan Abnett books.  Most BL books are fluff (and not in the gaming way, in the candy way), but Abnett's tend to be much more readable and controlled...plot-driven, not action driven.

I liked Horus Rising a lot...great intro, great set-up, great ideas.

It's been a few weeks, and you might have to remind me about some of the finer points.

I read it yesterday and was positively surprised. Actaully I think it was downright supeb in the way it depicted the primarchs as supreme, not only on the physical aspect, but in their social skills, etc. Overall, even though the novel is centered around armed conflict, I think it captivates and illuminates the tragedy that these genuinely likable characters and legions eventually succumbed to chaos, and failed mankind.

And therby lies the strength of the novel, in my point of view. Dan Abnett has managed to portray the characters and soldiers of the Luna Wolves in a way that the reader, knowing that they will fall, feels for them like in a greek tragedy, where you know the mail character will eventually fall. It had been so much easier just to portray them as ruthless thugs, more or less waiting for chaos to sink its claws into them.

Furthermore, I think that Dan Abnett has managed to capture in words, the grandiose of the crusade and the radiant awe of the primarchs. I might be a bit biased, since I am a soldier at heart, but on occasion I found myself to wish that I could have been there to see it with my own eyes.

Anyway, I honestly felt a wee bit sad that those noble warriors would be seduced by chaos eventually, and I very much look forward to the next novel.

Horus Rising is easily the best BL book I have read and I have read many. I have just finished re-reading it, and it is erven better the second time. I cannot wait for the second book in the trilogy, I just hope the next author can live up to the mark set by Abnett.

Darrian

I also agree that it is top notch. Easily the best fluff book ever written on the 40k universe IMO.


The one thing that kind of bugs me is the sense of enlightenment that humanity seems to have at this point in the 40k universe. It doesn't really seem to add up with the old fluff IMO.

It's obvious that the worship of the Emperor as a god is something that comes later, but at that point in history it seems like they should, at the very least, be worshipping the Machine God as a god.

In the old fluff when the Age of Strife hit, humanity essentially disintegrated. It was during this time that nearly all the accumulated knowledge about technology and science was lost except for the knowledge saved by the Adeptus Mechanicus. The fact that a cult holds the power of technology and worships it like a god meant that the common people (and even the armed forces, including the space marines) were supposed to think of technology as an extension of the machine god. . .something divine and beyond regular human knowledge. This is something that isn't true in this novel.

I guess they're going to portray that this worship of technology also didn't start until after the Emperor's death, but again, that doesn't really fit with how the fluff used to stand.


It is also a little hard for me to believe that the nature of Chaos isn't at least partially known at this point. Remember that Chaos was around for thousands of years before the Age of Strife. The Age of Strife was caused by the warp storms brought on by the birth of Slaanesh (the youngest of the 4 gods). Psykers and warp travel were supposedly around during the golden age of technology, before the Age of Strife. That's how the great human empire was originally forged.

I understand that the Emperor could convince everyone that religions and the chaos powers are all BS, but it seems like the names of the chaos powers should at least be known as legends to most people at this point.


I dunno, I just always imagined the Age of Strife as a new Dark Age (which is what it has always been described as). When hummanity emerged from these Dark Ages I had always believed that it was fully immersed in the worship of technology. It just seems like they're re-writing the fluff to make the Horus Heresy more of the climatic event that shatters humanity's faith in technology and science, rather than the Age of Strife as it always was portrayed before this novel.

I really liked it- the bad news is its made me want to:
A) Start a pre-heresy marine army
B) Convert models to represent primarchs
C) Start trying to work out how to use the inquisitor rules to play games set in the pre-heresy (basically having marines as awesome as they are in the book)

I just started the book last night. Just got to chapter three. It is nice to get a better perspective on the whole thing.

"Its like we are fighting children. Well armed children."

I've heard really good things about it as well, but I've also heard that different people will write the next two books in the trilogy.   Rumor is that Graham McNeil is doing the next one; what's everyone's take on his work?

I find Graham McNeil's books (the ones I've read) to be hit or miss. I really liked Storm of Iron, but I don't really care for any of the Ultramarine books he wrote.

Overall, I would say I have a good feeling that he won't screw up what Dan Abnett started.

it was an excellent book, it really hits home how slowly the chapter can fall from grace without it being obvious. i idid not relise somebody else was gona write the other two books. i doubt it makes much difference either way. the big wigs at GW headquarters probably have the main story lined up and just get the writers to write it up for them.

Ah, but it's a HUGE step between having a plot outline to work from, and actually crafting the story together into a cohesive whole. I doubt I could craft a very good story if I had the plot outline to work from.

I really liked the interrelationships between the Primarchs. Especially that of Horus and Sanguinius. You can see how close the two of them are and you can almost guess how at the final battle Sanguinius tries to get him to repent in the final moment before Horus kills him. Great read. How about the low down on Abbadon's first name also. (Ezekial) Spelled differently tho'.

One other point: I implore GW let Abnett finish the other two because I could see this turning foul in the worst way.

Based on this, I picked up a copy last night, as well as the Eisenhorn trilogy in one book for $10.  I hope to hell that it's worth it.

just finished it. Coloured for thoughts and possible spoilers.

I'm wondering about one part though, where Horus is speaking about the zodiac signs and the correspondence with the Primarchs. Was this artistic licence on Abnetts part, or a hint about the other primarchs?

I'm personally leaning on artistic licence, but the fluff fan in me says nope. Might be able to guesss the signs for the other primarchs and the missing primarchs.

Oh well, at least we know it'd be futile with GW always spoiling our fluff fun

it would break my black twisted little heart if the lead charactor Garvial Loken i think thats his name was to forswear his oaths of loyalty to the emperor. I see erebus for the manipulator that he is,

I finished the book the other day and thought it was fantastic. What we've seen of Horus's fall has been very subtly done (for a gw book anyway), and it really is heart breaking knowing that the Luna Wolves end up going to the dark side. This is exactly the kind of thing I wanted from the Star Wars prequels but didn't get.

I did think it ended pretty abruptly though (as many of Dan Abnett?s books do), but that?s ok seeing as it?s only the first part of the story. Also, I wasn?t much of a fan of any of the alien races (another problem I find with Abnett?s gw stuff). His aliens are always a bit too bizarre, or don?t feel like 40k races to me. The Luna Wolves were freakin? awesome though, as were the primarchs who turned up. I just hope the last two books can live up to this one. I think False Gods is out on the 6th of June, so we don?t have long to wait. Also, you can read the first chapter of it on the Black Library website. Haven?t read it yet but I?ll report back when I do.

Abnett's books do end rather abruptly.  About 96% of the book is excellent set-up, usually followed by a one chapter, "This happened" finale.  But the set-up is usually brilliant, and he's a very talented writer.

McNeill is OK, but he has a tendency to use movie quotes pretty liberally (I read direct Quint dialogue from Jaws in Warriors of Ultramar), and doesn't have much subtext.  Storm of Iron is his best book.  He will probably manage to maintain an OK story, but lots of the subtle details and themes that Abnett touched on will be lost.  Abnett is just more natural and gifted (and experienced).  But McNeill isn't awful.

So I do look forward to the next book.  I'd love for McNeill to cram my words down my throat.

I'm not a big reader of GW fiction, but I thought Horus Rising was easily the best that I've read. IMO, most GW fiction has very two-dimensional characters, but Abnett obviously has a better handle on character development. And that's crucial for these books to work, as what ultimately did in the primarchs weren't big events, but little character flaws that Chaos was able to slowly exploit.

IMO, I think it's a striking contrast to the Star Wars prequels, in that the "fall" depicted in those movies lacked any nuance or subtlety. Anakin was an scared kid who got really angry, threw away years of Jedi training for the Dark Side after one conversation and that was that (it didn't help that both actors playing Anakin stunk, of course). Assuming the next Heresy novels proceed similarly, there's definitely more of a "descent" at work here. What's more, you can sympathize with the moral dilemmas that the Luna Wolves experience and it makes you wonder if you'd follow the Emperor blindly yourself. In many ways, it was the Legions that fell that were more human.

Yak: I know what you mean regarding humanity and technology...I had the same thoughts. But as fluff revisions go, I think it's a good one. To me, it enhances the sense of humanity's fall into the darkness of the "current" age, and the sense of innocence lost.

An aside about Heyden Christiansonsonson (Anakin): he's not a bad actor.  Go watch "My Life As a House", and you'll see him act well.  I just think he had lousy direction (think Thora Birch and Jeremy Irons in the D&D movie).

Fair enough point...bad direction and a worse script are hard to overcome. Portman was totally wooden in the SW movies, but was much better in Garden State. Kind of an indictment of Lucas' skills with handling actors when a first-time young director gets that much more out of his actors...

I finished the book a couple nights ago. I feel bad for poor Horus, his daddy put too much weight on his shoulders. I blame the Emperor for the fall of the Sons of Horus. "Death to the False Emperor!"

That battle cry now means a lot more than it did before. False emperor meaning the ones they removed from the worlds they brought back into the Imperium. Its almost as if the the CSM Legions see him as just another liar and false emperor like all the others.

Posted By Iorek on 05/25/2006 9:17 AM
An aside about Heyden Christiansonsonson (Anakin): he's not a bad actor.  Go watch "My Life As a House", and you'll see him act well.  I just think he had lousy direction (think Thora Birch and Jeremy Irons in the D&D movie).

i agree, look how well portman acted in LEON, its not the actors its just the directors, they were to busy thinking about the fat pay checks from merchandising.

Good read, bits and peices didn't quite work for me (um, if there's no religion then what were the Word Bearers doing with a First Chaplain, and you say NO ONE thought to warn the Marines about the existance of Daemons, NO ONE?). But yeah, 100x better than it could have been. I remembered those terrible Index Astres articles and decided to stay away from this but the good reivews got me in. I read it in like 2 days.

But I'll wait for reviews before going near book 2.

I like book 2- just finished it- I'd suggest it Kyoto as it does explain a few things that seemed abit iffy in the first book-
from what i gathered the Word Bearers had chaplains- but got told off for worshipping the emperor- but beyond that they worked as kinda astartes iterators (man my spelling sucks)

yeah book 2 is great- might have to start a new thread to discuss it.

oh- and the best tag line i heard for the book that came from the GW guy i talked to when I was buying it.... "It basically gives you the cliff hanger as to whether or not horus will turn to chaos"
well of course he does....otherwise its gonna cause a few problems later in the series- and we already know he is going to!

Regarding the existence of Chaos, the fluff's been all over the place, historically speaking. The fluff used to say that even Space Marines were mindwiped after they encountered daemons because just the knowledge of them was considered that dangerous by the Inquisition. Recent fluff portrays a more permissive attitude by the Imperium and Inquisition.

The Emperor's attempt to conceal the existence of Chaos in HR is kind of a new twist, but one I kinda like. It's just another item in the list of errors made by the Emperor, who seems quite fallible and prone to bad judgment despite his power.

Just got the book last week, and I'm halfway through it. A few things jump out at this point.


(As it pertains to my darling Dark Angels and their primarch) Dorn had the 2nd best record?!?!?!?! It's always been Horus, then the Lion then Russ for the top 3. This seems like a big step.


2nd. I now see that the Heresy really IS the fault of the Emperor alone. He doesn't trust Horus with what he's really up to back on Earth. He doesn't tell his best and most loyal forces about the existance of warp entities and their effects on those weak of spirit.

It's really quite tragic. He creates the finest warriors in the universe. He trains them to be perfect weapons of war. He equips them with the best available tools of war. Yet he doesn't equip them where it matters most... intel. Know thine enemy. He leaves them spectacularly ill equiped to deal with the realities of what resides in the Warp. And thus, he sows the seeds of his own downfall.

Indeed. Quite tragic.

As it pertains to my darling Dark Angels and their primarch) Dorn had the 2nd best record?!?!?!?! It's always been Horus, then the Lion then Russ for the top 3. This seems like a big step.


as a Sone of Russ i agree, but now due to the new fluff i can say the dark angels have been knocked off spot 2 and disapeared down the ladder. they will be remembered but not missed.

but i get what KiMonarrez is saying, it does not all make sence especially with well known old fluff. cmon the least they could do is incorporate the olf stuff that they have done. did they actually get writers who knew something about the 40k universe or did they just draw them a SM and said the rest is upto you??

Posted By beef on 06/19/2006 7:45 PM

cmon the least they could do is incorporate the olf stuff that they have done. did they actually get writers who knew something about the 40k universe or did they just draw them a SM and said the rest is upto you??

I was kind of under the impression that this was a big retcon to all the various contradictory and obsoleted and confusing morass of the old fluff (the cool stuff that got us into 40K to begin with) A 'Crisis on Infinite Primarchs' style re-boot to borrow a DC-ism.

was kind of under the impression that this was a big retcon to all the various contradictory and obsoleted and confusing morass of the old fluff (the cool stuff that got us into 40K to begin with) A 'Crisis on Infinite Primarchs' style re-boot to borrow a DC-ism.


OR is that what Gw's excuse was for not being able to keep up with the contradictory stuff there previous writers wrote. I was reading deathwing again today after so many years. Remember the original where it had Dark angels as some kind of native americam types. They only recruited from that world. They had cool names like Two heads talking, cloud runner, weasol feirce. then they joined Dark angels and they had new names like Lucian. It just shows how GW has come along way from those cool Red Indian type tribesman to the Dark angels Some love( i actally hate) who are very suspicious and untrusting.