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Made in gb
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






Hi all. This is probably more a question for the MEdge creators but was wondering whether I had missed details about the Angel Handlers. The ability is mentioned in the Rulebook and I know it is not a model produced, but are there stats, rules or guidance on including within your force for the model?

I only ask because I am loving the Angels and am wondering about whether I might make a version of my own if there are left over parts. I imagine it would be similar to the bot handler for the Epirians, but just wondered if there was any official info or whether it was on the horizon???

Also, has anyone else had the same thought and beaten me to the punch having made your own already? If so, I'd love to see them. (I'm taking it quietly with the set because I like to paint minis in sub-assemblies to stop me from messing up a paint job worse than I manage already It does mean that I get very jealous at everyone else's creations though

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/17 08:03:53


GW - 670 pts || - 354 pts || - 46 pts || - 106 pts || LoTR - 400 pts (Evil) vs 0 pts (Good) || Space Hulk - 1/35 || Deathwatch Overkill - 0/50
Other MEdge: Karists - 23 points || Epirians - 0 points Shattered Earth: Awaiting delivery "Awakening" Terrain: Awaiting delivery DWMG2: 4/54
My Miniatures blog || My Terrain blog || My MEdge blog || Paradigm's Painting Challenge League Tables: 2015/16, 2016/17

The Hobby Mission: 25/713 minis complete, 98/406 terrain complete. 46 more minis in 2016 to complete my goal for this year
jreilly89: "In the far future, there are only drive-bys."
 
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA


All of what I'm going to write is completely and utterly WIP and is subject to change based upon how the model turns out, what weapon options we are able to fit on the sprue, etc.

But the basic idea behind the Angel Keeper (from a rules perspective) would be this:

• Command unit. His detachment can include 1-4 Angel core units, 0-2 Angel hammer units (none of these exist yet), 0-2 Angel vanguard units (none of these exist yet) & 0-2 Angel anvil units.
• He would be somewhere in the realm of 8-9 points.
• His stats would be: MV7, EVS3, SKL3, AV3, MAS2, FOR2, WP4. Model type: Infantry (human, character).
• He'd be armed with some kind of CQ weapon (that you could imagine him using to punish the Angels when they're not behaving properly) and a Ripper Grenade Launcher that would fire Swarmer Grenade rounds. Might have to tone down the Swarmer Grenade rounds to only being 'psych 2D3' (instead of the normal 'psych 3D3')...although this could easily be justified by saying that the fired grenades are not quite as big and therefore don't carry as much na-cybel as the thrown version. He'd probably have the option to take traditional 'Ripper' rounds in the grenade launcher (to give him an actual gun that can deal damage if you want to pay the points for it).
• He'd have the 'Angel Handler' & 'Command (1)' abilities. His big other ability would be to remove the 'Kill Mission' ability from Minnow units within a certain range of him (probably the normal command range of 18"), thereby allowing those units to capture mission objectives (while they're close enough to him).

Finally, if you have one or more Angel Keeper in your force, you'd be able to swap out your standard faction objective for the 'First Contact' faction objective.

This faction objective would give all Angel units (units with at least 50% angel models) the 'Fearsome (1)' ability, or +1 to their Fearsome ability if they already have one. Anytime a non-fearless enemy unit fails its activation discipline check while affected by the Fearsome ability of an Angel unit, you gain +1 VP. You can gain a maximum o 3 VPs this way, and once you have, the 'fearsome' ability bonus immediately ends.

----

So more or less, he'd be a model that not only allows you to take a nearly all Angel force if you want, but would also gives the Angels in your force a bunch more options, from being able to capture objectives while near him, to just being more potent in general if you choose to use his faction objective option.




I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in gb
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






Wow! Yakface that is so helpful. It's great to hear the way the mini would need to appear.

I had him in my head as not having command ability (don't know what I was thinking having read your input) so I visualised him quite nomadic, but this will mean he would need to have a bit more presence in this case which is no real issue. I'm getting a pose in my head of a sort of tribe shaman now. That's really good to know. It's also good to hear the sort of wargear that he would need. The CQ weapon could be a sort of ornate cattle prod possibly. Hmmm, this is gonna be fun brainstorming over

Thanks so much. I am not someone who ever created home brew rules and am much more a modeller (life situation for now :() so this is a great guide and if not the final set it's a great pointer. If I ever do make a model at least I would have this info to allow him to be fielded (opponent willing of course)

GW - 670 pts || - 354 pts || - 46 pts || - 106 pts || LoTR - 400 pts (Evil) vs 0 pts (Good) || Space Hulk - 1/35 || Deathwatch Overkill - 0/50
Other MEdge: Karists - 23 points || Epirians - 0 points Shattered Earth: Awaiting delivery "Awakening" Terrain: Awaiting delivery DWMG2: 4/54
My Miniatures blog || My Terrain blog || My MEdge blog || Paradigm's Painting Challenge League Tables: 2015/16, 2016/17

The Hobby Mission: 25/713 minis complete, 98/406 terrain complete. 46 more minis in 2016 to complete my goal for this year
jreilly89: "In the far future, there are only drive-bys."
 
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

 TP^DC Deputy Manager wrote:
Wow! Yakface that is so helpful. It's great to hear the way the mini would need to appear.

I had him in my head as not having command ability (don't know what I was thinking having read your input) so I visualised him quite nomadic, but this will mean he would need to have a bit more presence in this case which is no real issue. I'm getting a pose in my head of a sort of tribe shaman now. That's really good to know. It's also good to hear the sort of wargear that he would need. The CQ weapon could be a sort of ornate cattle prod possibly. Hmmm, this is gonna be fun brainstorming over

Thanks so much. I am not someone who ever created home brew rules and am much more a modeller (life situation for now :() so this is a great guide and if not the final set it's a great pointer. If I ever do make a model at least I would have this info to allow him to be fielded (opponent willing of course)


He's part of the Karist priestly caste, like the Kaddar Nova, so you can take some design cues from that, although I'd imagine that their focus on training angels would set them apart from the rest of the priestly caste (so a bit of a nomad).

In the novel, the Keeper fires cybel grenades onto targets where they want to direct the Angels (as the Angels eat Cybel) and that's what the grenade launcher with Swarmer Grenades represents (because in the game, Angels fighting against units with lots of STs get extra attacks, and the swarmer grenade creates a lot of automatic STs).

Besides just firing cybel grenades to direct angels, there has been some talk about perhaps the Keepers wear a device over their mouths (or maybe even have it surgically implanted) that allows them to 'speak' really basic commands to the Angels, which would help to explain why they're the only command models able to issue orders to angel units.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in gb
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






 yakface wrote:
He's part of the Karist priestly caste, like the Kaddar Nova, so you can take some design cues from that, although I'd imagine that their focus on training angels would set them apart from the rest of the priestly caste (so a bit of a nomad).

I have visions of someone who has partly "gone native" as the only way to learn the behaviours of the Angels to enable him to predict non-compliance and push them to do what he wishes.

Need to read the novels fully (life took a busy turn after chapter 1) obviously to get more idea. Thanks.

Besides just firing cybel grenades to direct angels, there has been some talk about perhaps the Keepers wear a device over their mouths (or maybe even have it surgically implanted) that allows them to 'speak' really basic commands to the Angels, which would help to explain why they're the only command models able to issue orders to angel units.

Or xeno-augmentation? (Please name it properly) Some form of hornone gland that is implanted that allows the Keeper to alter their voice box shape or enables basic telepathic impulses to be created. Would tend to depend on the method that the Angels use to communicate. A device seems slightly less logical (dog trainers tend to get by without implanting metal into themselves). How do the Angels talk to each other?

GW - 670 pts || - 354 pts || - 46 pts || - 106 pts || LoTR - 400 pts (Evil) vs 0 pts (Good) || Space Hulk - 1/35 || Deathwatch Overkill - 0/50
Other MEdge: Karists - 23 points || Epirians - 0 points Shattered Earth: Awaiting delivery "Awakening" Terrain: Awaiting delivery DWMG2: 4/54
My Miniatures blog || My Terrain blog || My MEdge blog || Paradigm's Painting Challenge League Tables: 2015/16, 2016/17

The Hobby Mission: 25/713 minis complete, 98/406 terrain complete. 46 more minis in 2016 to complete my goal for this year
jreilly89: "In the far future, there are only drive-bys."
 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord





Oklahoma City

 yakface wrote:

Besides just firing cybel grenades to direct angels, there has been some talk about perhaps the Keepers wear a device over their mouths (or maybe even have it surgically implanted) that allows them to 'speak' really basic commands to the Angels, which would help to explain why they're the only command models able to issue orders to angel units.

No offense to you guys, but please just give the Keepers some kind of neural interface that lets them do rudimentary telepathic projection. I know it's similar in concept to the Epirian bot handlers but just the idea of an angel chatterbox ruins the whole mystique of the Enclave beasties. They lose that "eldritch abomination" vibe if they have some kind of communication that mere humans can understand and they can be commanded in that language. I think they're plenty scary being the barely controlled rage monsters that they are. And I like how they're barely understood, even by the Karist who revere them as Beings of the Maelstrom. I can't even imagine what "angelspeak" (Enochian?) sounds like. Although a recording of angel noises and the screams of its victims played on repeat over radio broadcast or loudspeakers could be an effective terror tactic for the Karists. As a side note, coating your enemy in bait (cybel) is a perfectly valid combat strategy

On the tabletop, I think it would be fluffy if Commanding Angels wasn't a sure thing. They are fickle nightmare monsters. It could be a VS roll, Keeper's WP to Angel's MAS to represent increasing difficulty with the age/stage of the Angel. The keeper profile you provided could command minnows easily on a 2+, but the Mature Angel would require a 4+. The Juvenile Angel could be a good intermediate level with MAS 3, requiring a 3+ to command (Although in A Keeper's Duty, I think it was noted Juveniles are the most temperamental but fluff can be glazed over a bit in favor of rules that work). The chance of failure would represent both the eventualities of a Keeper shouting telepathically at an Angel and being drowned out by the creature's bloodlust or a particularly stubborn Angel disobeying its master. You could even give the Keeper a rule with its CQ weapon to "spur" an Angel within a few inches, rerolling the check needed to command the unit in exchange for a pen 1 dam 1 hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've probably overstepped the bounds a little bit. Didn't mean to tell you nice folks at SAS how to design your own game. Just thought I'd throw out some ideas I had since this thread got my creative juices flowing

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/17 09:20:33


Proud supporter of


It is human nature to seek culpability in a time of tragedy. It is a sign of strength to cry out against fate, rather than to bow one's head and succumb.
-Gabriel Angelos 
   
Made in gb
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






I wouldn't worry Bocatt, I've been having great chats with Yakface, Legoburner, Darrkespur and Jonathan (over on Facebook). These guys are all about the hobby and I am certain they will consider all comments and ignore what doesn't work for them. They have a grand plan, but there's always tweaks that can be made to details thanks to suggestions from us lot.

Glad this chat got the creativity flowing

GW - 670 pts || - 354 pts || - 46 pts || - 106 pts || LoTR - 400 pts (Evil) vs 0 pts (Good) || Space Hulk - 1/35 || Deathwatch Overkill - 0/50
Other MEdge: Karists - 23 points || Epirians - 0 points Shattered Earth: Awaiting delivery "Awakening" Terrain: Awaiting delivery DWMG2: 4/54
My Miniatures blog || My Terrain blog || My MEdge blog || Paradigm's Painting Challenge League Tables: 2015/16, 2016/17

The Hobby Mission: 25/713 minis complete, 98/406 terrain complete. 46 more minis in 2016 to complete my goal for this year
jreilly89: "In the far future, there are only drive-bys."
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 TP^DC Deputy Manager wrote:


Glad this chat got the creativity flowing

Speaking of which... yakface's rules blurb got me all excited, so I had a bit of a play with some bits and came up with this...

Not sure I'm sold on the flail (some sort of electric prod would probably be better), but it was what I had on hand.
[Thumb - _20160217_210809.JPG]
Down, boy!


 
   
Made in gb
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






Insaniak!!! You are on fire! Love it. I'm guessing that is the first ever Angel Keeper, unless someone else has made one first.

I need to make up my Kaddar Novae first and then I'll know what leftovers I have to start modding with. I was genuinely planning as you posted that photo - great minds!

GW - 670 pts || - 354 pts || - 46 pts || - 106 pts || LoTR - 400 pts (Evil) vs 0 pts (Good) || Space Hulk - 1/35 || Deathwatch Overkill - 0/50
Other MEdge: Karists - 23 points || Epirians - 0 points Shattered Earth: Awaiting delivery "Awakening" Terrain: Awaiting delivery DWMG2: 4/54
My Miniatures blog || My Terrain blog || My MEdge blog || Paradigm's Painting Challenge League Tables: 2015/16, 2016/17

The Hobby Mission: 25/713 minis complete, 98/406 terrain complete. 46 more minis in 2016 to complete my goal for this year
jreilly89: "In the far future, there are only drive-bys."
 
   
Made in gb
Basecoated Black




Nottingham, UK

I'm just in the process of painting up my Karist and the Angel models are definately my favourite, to the extent that my first few games to learn the rules are the Angel models V the Karist Troopers. To know that there will be the chance to field an all Angel force has just given me the tremblies...

Now to read the novels!

   
Made in gb
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






JP1138 you are gonna hate this then:

I have done a very quick eBook scan for all Angel references and came across the battle scene that was given away as part of the Kickstarter taster from Faith. These are key points for our Keeper friend:

He appeared to be calling out to the creature in some guttural tongue that Wynn didn’t recognise, giving it commands with harsh, almost spat phrases.


that guy in the hood has some kind of control over the creature[


the Angel had returned to its master, who was stroking its back with the energy staff, sending pulses of blue across its body


My brain is going nuts visualising this guy! I need to stop obsessing for a bit I think and let my ideas coalesce.

He is part Kaddar Nova, part Orikan the Diviner, part cryptek, part shaman. I even wonder about there not being a device or xeno-graft, but instead a ritual where there larynx is removed to achieve the ability to communicate in this "guttural" way. Well at any rate, I think that's what my guy is gonna have done. My Karist force are in tune with their Angels, they are captured and used as weapons, but they are also holy beasts from their beloved Maelstrom. My (first) Keeper will have gone to such lengths that he is now only able to communicate with the Angels in a verbal way, leaving behind the Karist language. Shedding this as a step towards his ascension. In the same way as the Kaddar Novae use their cybel reactors knowing the harm it does to them, but not caring due to their belief that it is only a means to an end.




Have I said that I LOVE THIS UNIVERSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

GW - 670 pts || - 354 pts || - 46 pts || - 106 pts || LoTR - 400 pts (Evil) vs 0 pts (Good) || Space Hulk - 1/35 || Deathwatch Overkill - 0/50
Other MEdge: Karists - 23 points || Epirians - 0 points Shattered Earth: Awaiting delivery "Awakening" Terrain: Awaiting delivery DWMG2: 4/54
My Miniatures blog || My Terrain blog || My MEdge blog || Paradigm's Painting Challenge League Tables: 2015/16, 2016/17

The Hobby Mission: 25/713 minis complete, 98/406 terrain complete. 46 more minis in 2016 to complete my goal for this year
jreilly89: "In the far future, there are only drive-bys."
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






London UK

yeah,
That scene when the angel attacks is crazy good!
And it's an amazing bit of writing that kinda gives a feel for the game, being pinned down etc...

Insaniak the whip looks perfect I imagined it would work as a cybel/electric Pleasure/Pain control device.

Panic...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/17 12:59:33


   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Panic wrote:
Insaniak the whip looks perfect I imagined it would work as a cybel/electric Pleasure/Pain control device.

Yeah, that was more or less what I was thinking

Meanwhile, he now has a mask.
[Thumb - _20160218_071656.JPG]
M m m m m m m M.A.S.K.!


 
   
Made in tw
Fresh-Faced New User




Since in my experience it takes pretty much your whole army to kill ONE Mature Angel on the opposing side, I propose a downside to having one of the most lethal and near unkillable models in the game now able to also take objectives and have more lethal and unkillable buddies in the game.

I suggest if you take the Angel Handler (Hereafter referred to as 'Angel Summoner') you should also be forced to take the BMX Bandit!

This video should explain things more clearly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw
   
Made in gb
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






That was hilarious

GW - 670 pts || - 354 pts || - 46 pts || - 106 pts || LoTR - 400 pts (Evil) vs 0 pts (Good) || Space Hulk - 1/35 || Deathwatch Overkill - 0/50
Other MEdge: Karists - 23 points || Epirians - 0 points Shattered Earth: Awaiting delivery "Awakening" Terrain: Awaiting delivery DWMG2: 4/54
My Miniatures blog || My Terrain blog || My MEdge blog || Paradigm's Painting Challenge League Tables: 2015/16, 2016/17

The Hobby Mission: 25/713 minis complete, 98/406 terrain complete. 46 more minis in 2016 to complete my goal for this year
jreilly89: "In the far future, there are only drive-bys."
 
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

I got this PM from TP^DC Deputy Manager, and I figured I'd reply to it publicly in case anyone else might wonder the same thing:

TP^DC Deputy Manager wrote:Hi there,
Ages ago I was thinking about Angel Keepers and you wrote a WIP for the rules for such a model in the thread I had started. I put it aside for a while because I couldn't find the sort of staff I was after as the CQ weapon. I was looking for a sort of cattle-prod type thing, rather than a wip which I know Insaniak went with.

So lo and behold what do I see in the upgrade sprue but a Cybel Glaive!!! Please tell me that you are going to write it so that the Keeper can take a Cybel Glaive. Please?! It will complete my ideas of this Karist member.

If not, any ideas what sort of CQ weapon you would have them being able to take?

Cheers
TP

If you look at the rules/fluff we put out for the Cybel Glaive you'll see that not only is it a pretty potent weapon, it also has a really important secondary feature of providing a field boost to the unit the model is part of (so long as the unit doesn't shoot, of course). The fluff also makes it clear that the weapon utilizes a pretty powerful cybel reactor to power all that goodness, which unfortunately slowly poisons the wielder over time. Which makes the Praetorians the only ones crazy and/or honored enough to wield it. In addition, a Cybel Glaive is a big giant two-handed weapon, and since the Angel Keeper's signature weapon is his grenade launcher which he uses to 'guide' Angels towards targets that he wants them to attack, it would be difficult for him to swap between a Cybel Glaive and his Grenade Launcher.

So while I won't rule out completely the possibility that we'll allow the Angel Keeper to take a Cybel Glaive (at least as an option), I'd categorize it as unlikely, because it is doesn't really fit the Angel Keeper's role, which is to be more of a support unit to help empower the Angel units in your force. The melee weapon a Keeper would carry would be more along the lines of something they carry for those odd times when their Angels get a little crazed and think about attacking their handler. It will probably either be a lash/flail like Insaniak came up with, or some type of one-handed energy prod (much lighter/smaller than the Cybel Glaive). Rules-wise, that melee weapon likely won't be anything too special, probably equivalent to the Cybel Blade.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/22 21:16:13


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in gb
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






Cheers Yakface. Hadn't thought about the two handed element to the Cybel glaive. Thanks for pointing that out.

Back to the drawing board

GW - 670 pts || - 354 pts || - 46 pts || - 106 pts || LoTR - 400 pts (Evil) vs 0 pts (Good) || Space Hulk - 1/35 || Deathwatch Overkill - 0/50
Other MEdge: Karists - 23 points || Epirians - 0 points Shattered Earth: Awaiting delivery "Awakening" Terrain: Awaiting delivery DWMG2: 4/54
My Miniatures blog || My Terrain blog || My MEdge blog || Paradigm's Painting Challenge League Tables: 2015/16, 2016/17

The Hobby Mission: 25/713 minis complete, 98/406 terrain complete. 46 more minis in 2016 to complete my goal for this year
jreilly89: "In the far future, there are only drive-bys."
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

You could maybe make some sort of prod using the handle of the cybel blade and one of the prongs off the glaive...

 
   
Made in gb
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






Insaniak!! How do you come up with this stuff?! You are a genius. Either that or I will mod the Glaive itself. Cheers for the thought

GW - 670 pts || - 354 pts || - 46 pts || - 106 pts || LoTR - 400 pts (Evil) vs 0 pts (Good) || Space Hulk - 1/35 || Deathwatch Overkill - 0/50
Other MEdge: Karists - 23 points || Epirians - 0 points Shattered Earth: Awaiting delivery "Awakening" Terrain: Awaiting delivery DWMG2: 4/54
My Miniatures blog || My Terrain blog || My MEdge blog || Paradigm's Painting Challenge League Tables: 2015/16, 2016/17

The Hobby Mission: 25/713 minis complete, 98/406 terrain complete. 46 more minis in 2016 to complete my goal for this year
jreilly89: "In the far future, there are only drive-bys."
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

So, with the expansion sprue in hand, I wanted to try to come up with something that could be made entirely from MEdge parts. This is what I got...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/14 10:42:34


 
   
Made in nl
Sure Shot Scarecrow Sniper






Oh yes, that is awesome. Love the use of the crown there

   
Made in gb
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






Awesome job! I had thought about using the shaft of one of the Cybel glaives, but wasn't sure how it would come out. Clearly really well

GW - 670 pts || - 354 pts || - 46 pts || - 106 pts || LoTR - 400 pts (Evil) vs 0 pts (Good) || Space Hulk - 1/35 || Deathwatch Overkill - 0/50
Other MEdge: Karists - 23 points || Epirians - 0 points Shattered Earth: Awaiting delivery "Awakening" Terrain: Awaiting delivery DWMG2: 4/54
My Miniatures blog || My Terrain blog || My MEdge blog || Paradigm's Painting Challenge League Tables: 2015/16, 2016/17

The Hobby Mission: 25/713 minis complete, 98/406 terrain complete. 46 more minis in 2016 to complete my goal for this year
jreilly89: "In the far future, there are only drive-bys."
 
   
 
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