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Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Hi folks,

Been playing with Trogdor for the last few months and doing pretty well with it.  Here is my updated version, based upon extensive playtesting.

My major thoughts are that I can swap out a tyrant Guard to make 1 Tyrant fly.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=338 border=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Gun Tyrant

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

121

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

BS+1, S+1, 2 Twin Devourers

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

2

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Tyrant Guard

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

90

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Gun Tyrant

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

121

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

BS+1, S+1, 2 Twin Devourers

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

2

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Tyrant Guard

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

90

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Strangler Carnifex

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

113

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Strangler Carnifex

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

113

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Strangler Carnifex

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

113

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Blaster Carnifex

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

163

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

bs+1, w+1, Venom Cannon

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Barbed Strangler

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Blaster Carnifex

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

163

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

bs+1, w+1, Venom Cannon

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Barbed Strangler

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Blaster Carnifex

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

163

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

bs+1, w+1, Venom Cannon

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Barbed Strangler

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

6

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Genestealers

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

120

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Extended Carapace

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

6

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Genestealers

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

120

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Extended Carapace

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

24

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

1490

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

My reasoning is that devourers are best on Tyrants as 12 rerollable S5 BS4 shots is better than 8 rerollable S6 BS3 shots.  The guard add another 8 wounds to the Godzilla portion of the army, and are almost as killy in close combat as stealers per point.  I would have 6 Guard, but stealers are good troops, and I refuse to buy hormogaunt models just to get spine gaunts.

What I am after is any way of making the list filthier and killier and more efficient. 

My initial ideas are to go double devourers on the cheap fexes, but I like the versatility of the strangler (Even with BS2).

Weaknesses are vs Obliterators, Lysander Wings and shooty SM hordes.  I hope that the newly tooled up tyrants will help, as they reap an average 3.16 SMs each per turn.

Comments appreciated.

Gazzor

 

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Hell, I give you points on the name alone.

I'd say that if you're going to make the 2nd tyrant a flyer, you might look at going Devourers + Scytals to give him some CC punch - he would probably end up there either way. If you want to keep the 'stranglers, maybe compromise and switch one Elite level 'fex out for a Dakkafex? It would be a points-neutral change.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Orlando, Florida

Well, double devourer fexes with enhanced senses is much better then a bs2 strangler.

Read the carnifex construction guide in the articles section for all the reasoning on the best carnifex configurations.

Hive fleet trogdor. heh. Well, go and burninate your opponents.
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA


3 Barbed Strangler Carnifexes will net you only a single hit a round. There is absolutely no *way* that can compare with (x2)TL Devourers, even when you consider the fact that you will get one less round of shooting with the Devourers (as the first turn is often out of range of the enemy with Devourers).

A Single Carnifex with (x2) TL Devourers will average 6 wounds (before saves are taken). Multiply that by 3 Carnifexes and you're talking about 18 saves your opponent has to make a turn.

3 Barbed Strangler Carnifexes will average a single hit, and be very lucky to find a target that has enough models grouped underneath to provide just 6 wounds. . .and you're still down 12 wounds overall.

Yeah, Barbed Stranglers provide a chance to pin and yeah they can be used to take out vehicles with AV13-14, but they just aren't a smart bet at a BS of 2.

Especially not when the Devourers offer the re-roll to hit and the re-roll to wound.


Secondly, yes, you should take a Flying Tyrant. It will give you much more versatility to take objectives and keep your opponents on their toes.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Thanks for the replies guy.

Here is the retooled list.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=338 border=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Gun Tyrant

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

121

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

BS+1, S+1, 2 Twin Devourers

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

3

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Tyrant Guard

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

135

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Flying Tyrant

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

161

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

BS+1, S+1, 2 Twin Devourers, Wings

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Dakka Fex

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

113

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

BS+1, 2 Twin Devourers

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Dakka Fex

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

113

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

BS+1, 2 Twin Devourers

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Dakka Fex

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

113

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

BS+1, 2 Twin Devourers

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Blaster Carnifex

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

163

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

bs+1, w+1, Venom Cannon

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Barbed Strangler

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Blaster Carnifex

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

163

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

bs+1, w+1, Venom Cannon

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Barbed Strangler

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

1

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Blaster Carnifex

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

163

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

bs+1, w+1, Venom Cannon

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Barbed Strangler

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

6

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Genestealers

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

120

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Extended Carapace

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

6

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Genestealers

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

120

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

Extended Carapace

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

23

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

1485

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="7%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="83%" height=16>

</TD> <TD width="11%" height=16>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Shooting kill power has increased from 4.51 MEQs per turn to 15.07 MEQs per turn from my old list.  The MEQs kills per turn for the list above was 10.28, so a big improvement within 18", with very small loss at up to 36". 

I did run with a hugely expensive winged Tyrant with 2 scytals, I6, WS6, implant attack, etc.  He pretty much never made his points back.  He was rubbish vs hard units (Like 10 SMs with hidden power fist) and was only good vs 5 man shooty squads, which a 3 attacks winged dakka tyrant can muller just as well.  The loss of  1.58 dead MEQs at 18" just isn't worth 0.56 extra dead SMs per turn in close combat, IMO (1.12 per game turn of course).  The fact that he can be a cowardly custard and snipe stuff from 18" is mega sweet IMO.

I ran some stats and the dakka tyrant is actually the most efficient infantry killer in the Nids list.  He makes his points back in 2.55 turns, which is amazing for such a sturdy unit who is also pretty good in combat.  3.40 turns for the wing tyrant to shoot his points worth of MEQs, but the extra speed + versatility is well worth it IMO.

Yakface, you got anything about the Dakka tyrant being the optimal Tyrant build in any guides you've done?  IMO of course. 

To be even shootier I could drop the Guard, but nothing else in the list is shooty enough to justify the loss of 6 T6, 3+SV wounds and 9 S5, I5 rending attacks.

Here's some shooting stats I ran.  points/ Kill is the pertinent column. Dakka Tyrant rocks!

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=508 border=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD width="21%" height=16>

Shooting

</TD> <TD width="16%" height=16>

Points

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

MEQ kills

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

Points/ Kill

</TD> <TD width="32%" height=16>

Turns to Recover points

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="21%" height=16>

Dakka Tyrant

</TD> <TD width="16%" height=16>

121

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

3.16

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

38.29

</TD> <TD width="32%" height=16>

2.55

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="21%" height=16>

Wing Dakka

</TD> <TD width="16%" height=16>

161

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

3.16

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

50.94

</TD> <TD width="32%" height=16>

3.40

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="21%" height=16>

Termagant

</TD> <TD width="16%" height=16>

6

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

0.13

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

48.00

</TD> <TD width="32%" height=16>

3.20

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="21%" height=16>

Devourer Gaunt 3

</TD> <TD width="16%" height=16>

10

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

0.19

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

54.00

</TD> <TD width="32%" height=16>

3.60

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="21%" height=16>

Dakka Fex

</TD> <TD width="16%" height=16>

113

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

1.94

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

58.11

</TD> <TD width="32%" height=16>

3.87

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="21%" height=16>

Spine Gaunt

</TD> <TD width="16%" height=16>

5

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

0.08

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

60.00

</TD> <TD width="32%" height=16>

4.00

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="21%" height=16>

Devourer Gaunt 2

</TD> <TD width="16%" height=16>

7

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

0.10

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

68.73

</TD> <TD width="32%" height=16>

4.58

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="21%" height=16>

Devourer Warrior

</TD> <TD width="16%" height=16>

36

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

0.50

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

72.00

</TD> <TD width="32%" height=16>

4.80

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="21%" height=16>

Gun Fex

</TD> <TD width="16%" height=16>

163

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

0.97

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

168.04

</TD> <TD width="32%" height=16>

11.20

</TD></TR> <TR> <TD width="21%" height=16>

Pie Fex

</TD> <TD width="16%" height=16>

113

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

0.46

</TD> <TD width="15%" height=16>

244.08

</TD> <TD width="32%" height=16>

16.27

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Still 15 points left as well.  Must spend points...

 

Gazzor

   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA


Gazzor,

There was actually a thread in the tactics forum in which I vehemently argued against the flying Tyrant with x2 TL Devourers. Unfortunately, the thread seems to have lost half of it's replies, including my original (and lengthy argument).

In this particular kind of Godzilla list, I think giving the flying Tyrant x2 TL Devourers is actually the right choice, however. The main reason I'm saying this is that a couple of the most important functions of a flying Tyrant in a normal list (tying enemy units up and thereby blocking LOS to allow the rest of the army to advance under less fire) simply isn't required in this kind of list.

This army is perfectly happy to sit around and firefight with LOS relatively wide open.

Not taking a Venom Cannon on the walking Tyrant does make you a little vulnerable to a highly mechanized army. . .I know from experience that 3 Gunfexes are not always enough when you're facing a board full of enemy vehicles like Chimeras, Wave Serpents or Devilfishes.

So although you make your walking Tyrant a less effective infantry killer by giving him a Venom Cannon/TL Devourer, I really think you make the army overall able to handle just about any threat that way.


Solid list either way, though.


P.S. nope, I've only written a Carnifex Tactica. I've thought about doing a Warrior and Tyrant guide, but I haven't mustered up the energy needed.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Yeah, that argument was with me and a few others. Most of it was lost?

I pretty much agree with Yak on everything. The VC will not cost you much in MEQ kills (and really, if you need to kill more MEQs, the Tyrant + Guard will probably do better getting into close combat, even with all ranged weapons) but will help you enormously against skimmer tanks, which are major threats. They do rather well against transports as well and can even instantkill the occasional leader. Never know when someone will fail a save. Very versatile and effective upgrade there.

One thing you may want to consider is Zoas replacing a Gunfex (you call them blasters)

They can give you some high AP firepower, and a high strength shot that can help out in a crunch. (Other zilla lists, Termie heavy lists and such)


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






yakface, I'll do a warrior guide real quick to save you the time:

----
Coelomate's Warrior Guide:

Take Raveners, a Fyrant, or a 'fex instead
----

I'm never sig worthy -Infantryman 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Not sure I agree with that.  I think warriors are quite rocking.  One hard army is 15 leaping devourer warriors, 20 stealers, 3 zoeys and a bunch of gaunts.

All starts in Escalation, and can be in assault turn 2 with loadsa rending.  And 14 warriors is also 7 dead SMs per turn at 18".

I will definitely consider the Tyrant VC, at least for the foot one.  I'll playtest and see which I prefer, 3 Guard, or 2 Guard and the VC.

I would take Zoeys, but they're not big and stompy.

Gazzor

   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA


Warriors cost way too many points because of their Synapse ability. There is no build that makes them effective at killing the enemy per point when compared to Genestealers or Spinegaunts or even Raveners.

Of course, two of those three units really require Synapse to function at full capacity, and I suppose that's the point.

However, the Warrior heavy army is not "hard". The army you describe will be torn up by any moderately shooty army.



I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

It's easy to bash Warriors. They don't have as many attacks as Genestealers (per wound, that is) or Raveners. They aren't as fast as Raveners, either. They also aren't as durable as Zoanthropes for providing synapse.

However, it's because they can deliver rending claws AND have some speed AND can get a 4+ save AND provide synapse that leaping ST/RC Warriors have value. Warriors are flawed, but so are Genestealers (fill valuable Troops slots), Raveners (5+ save, need for synapse) and Zoanthropes (speed). I agree that most of the upgrades and exotic builds for Warriors aren't worth it, but I still get mileage out of the basic carapaced, leaping ST/RC Warrior configuration.

And unless everyone else in the world has switched to Godzilla lists, I can't understand how people overlook the value in getting rending claws in Elites. I love Genestealers, but when you use multiple Troop slots for 'stealer units, you run the risk of ending up with either not enough Gaunts or overly large, unwieldy Gaunt units. For a horde-y Tyranid army, Troops slots are gold, and you have to be careful about going too hogwild on 'stealers. IMO, diversifying your list with Raveners, 'stealers, Zoeys AND Warriors is the best approach for lists of 1500+ pts.

And Yak, I don't think Gazzor's Warrior-heavy army would be DOA. Figure on:

HQ 3 Warriors (Senses, Carapace, Sacs, Leap, RC, Dev) 132
HQ 3 Warriors (Senses, Carapace, Sacs, Leap, RC, Dev) 132

E 3 Warriors (Senses, Carapace, Sacs, Leap, RC, Dev) 132
E 3 Warriors (Senses, Carapace, Sacs, Leap, RC, Dev) 132
E 3 Warriors (Senses, Carapace, Sacs, Leap, RC, Dev) 132

T 28 Spinegaunts 140
T 28 Spinegaunts 140
T 28 Spinegaunts 140
T 28 Spinegaunts 140
T 10 'Stealers (Carapace, Flesh Hooks) 210
T 10 'Stealers (Carapace, Flesh Hooks) 210

HS 3 Zoeys (Synapse, Warp Blast) 195

It totals 1835 pts, 11 scoring units and 150 models. Drop one Zoey and you could add two single Raveners (and two scoring units). Personally, I like some heavy guns and more scoring units, but you could win some games with this. I've seen many, many worse ideas.

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Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




Yea.....versatility.......BS elite fex......versatiliy??????

1 pie plate a turn on average compared to 18 S6 hits with devilfexs/dakkafexs....

hmmm 3-5 wounds vs 17-18 wounds......versatiliy.....wait I am sure I will see the logic soon..........No can't see it.

Glad you decided to go the devourer way much much better.

3 Guard for twin dev tyrant? now I run VC/dev and it does attract fire due to the VC so I often do lose my 2 guard (which is fine, I want them dead rather than a elite fex) but twin devs on the tyrant and 3 guards?

It is far too well protected to draw any fire (you want it drawing fire)

2 is enough, I recommend VC/dev, it is a really good combo.

You might want to consider the warp field on the winged tyrant, should live much longer.

I did run with a hugely expensive winged Tyrant with 2 scytals, I6, WS6, implant attack, etc. He pretty much never made his points back. He was rubbish vs hard units (Like 10 SMs with hidden power fist) and was only good vs 5 man shooty squads, which a 3 attacks winged dakka tyrant can muller just as well.


This is where we like to apply some tactics, with a zilla list your winged tyrant should be getting into CC unwounded....easily.

first: who runs 10 man marine squads with hidden fist?
2nd: how many are left after 3 elite fexs or whatever else you have shoots at said unit? should be managable size.
3: tyrant assualts a FLANK, kills 3-4 on average, empties kill zone, no attacks back, finnishes squad next turn and flies off.

The problem is......wait? problem......you just wiped out the enemy, guess there is no problem. It is almost unfair how good a winged tyrant can be. Though stealers and ravaners are a option to do the tyrants job, they work in a similar manor, still I like my tyrant. Last tourny mine was assualted by 4 terminators....5 attacks, 4 hits, 3 wounds, acid maw=4 wounds, all invuls failed, 4 dead terminators before they could strike. (wont always happen but the tyrant is damn powerful)

The loss of 1.58 dead MEQs at 18" just isn't worth 0.56 extra dead SMs per turn in close combat, IMO (1.12 per game turn of course).


Hardly the point, the difference is in that the CC version CAN take out a deathcompany or tooled up Demonprince before they can ever strike at you!

Overall under idea situations the shooty winged tyrant is more powerful definately, shooting then assualting normal tac squads and such, the CC one however will own certain armies like necrons and will really help when up against something really tough.

The Plasma Gun is a game altering force of unspeakable power 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Thanks for the replies guys.

It was somebody on a different forum pointing out the virtues of warriors.  He says he's done very well with them, although he does have 2 Gun Fexes to take out heavy stuff (As Yakface advised in his carnie guide, as it happens).

I was expecting too much from my flyrant I guess.  But I was fielding 3 really inefficient elite carnies who didn't support him.  I'll proxy the 3 dakka fexes, until I get round to modelling them properly.  I'll also go with the VC+dev foot tyrant.  Next tourney I'm going to isn't until September, so plenty of time to try out different weapon fits on the flyrant. 

Also, local area metagame has an effect on my thinking about the flyrant.  I've played over 30 games with the 2 scytal flyrant and never had a time where I wouldn't have been better with the dakka flyer. 

Still, enough Theory hammer, time to crush all before me down the club tomorrow!  Muhahahahaha!

Cheers,

Gazzor

   
 
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