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Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with something I do not quite understand. According to the matched play rules in the generals handbook in order to claim an allegiance all models in the army need to share the common keyword that is being claimed.

In the sylvaneth battletome multiple wargrove warscroll battalions have the option to add non sylvaneth units to the battalion. Does this invalidate their sylvaneth allegiance?

Yes. Though you'll still get the Order allegiance instead, which may very well be just as good depending on your army build.

If true than it conflicts with the requirements for mighty wyldwood, which you gain for taking the maximum number of battalions in the sylvaneth warscroll battalions that allow taking non sylvaneth models, as you would have to take them and thus lose your sylvaneth allegiance.

It doesn't remove the Sylvaneth Allegiance because Battalions are Warscrolls themselves, which have the Sylvaneth Keyword. If a Sylvaneth Batallion had freaking Bloodthirsters in it, it would still be a Sylvaneth Allegiance.

Is that written anywhere?

 Haechi wrote:
It doesn't remove the Sylvaneth Allegiance because Battalions are Warscrolls themselves, which have the Sylvaneth Keyword. If a Sylvaneth Batallion had freaking Bloodthirsters in it, it would still be a Sylvaneth Allegiance.

None of the Battalions in the Ironjawz Battletome have keywords. Is the Sylvaneth Battletome different in that regards?

Ghaz, Sylvaneth battalions do not have keywords at the bottom like normal warscrolls, it just says sylvaneth (insert warscroll battalion name on the next line)

 Swabby wrote:
Ghaz, Sylvaneth battalions do not have keywords at the bottom like normal warscrolls, it just says sylvaneth (insert warscroll battalion name on the next line)

And what do the warscrolls which constitute the battalion say at the bottom?

They'll have <Insert Keyword Here> on each item. If you were to, say, utilize Alarielle's Defenders(the Stormcast and Sylvaneth combo Warscroll Battalion)--you would be ineligible to claim it was a pure Sylvaneth army. The Stormcast items in the army have the keyword "STORMCAST" instead of "SYLVANETH".

Sorry I didn't meant it as a Keyword like on regular warscroll but it does say Sylvaneth on it.

In the Allegiance chapter of the Battletome it says:

Every unit and warscroll battalion owes allegiance to of the grand alliances [...] Many units and warscroll battalions also have have more specific allegiances, for example, Stormcast Eternals or Sylvaneth. If all the units and warscroll battalions in your army are Sylvaneth, then it has the Sylvaneth allegiance.

To me the battalion allegiance overrules its units allegiances. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. The sum of the content of the battalion makes a whole with its own allegiance.

 Haechi wrote:
Sorry I didn't meant it as a Keyword like on regular warscroll but it does say Sylvaneth on it.

In the Allegiance chapter of the Battletome it says:

Every unit and warscroll battalion owes allegiance to of the grand alliances [...] Many units and warscroll battalions also have have more specific allegiances, for example, Stormcast Eternals or Sylvaneth. If all the units and warscroll battalions in your army are Sylvaneth, then it has the Sylvaneth allegiance.

Which still doesn't change the fact that if you run one of the Warscroll Battalions that feature non-Sylvaneth models?

It's not a Sylvaneth battalion.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Which still doesn't change the fact that if you run one of the Warscroll Battalions that feature non-Sylvaneth models?

It's not a Sylvaneth battalion.

It literally says it's a Sylvaneth Battalion. Do whatever you want with it.

But it is a sylvaneth warscroll battalion with models missing the sylvaneth keyword, which means RAW in the generals handbook it cannot claim sylvaneth allegiance.

 Haechi wrote:
Sorry I didn't meant it as a Keyword like on regular warscroll but it does say Sylvaneth on it.

In the Allegiance chapter of the Battletome it says:

Every unit and warscroll battalion owes allegiance to of the grand alliances [...] Many units and warscroll battalions also have have more specific allegiances, for example, Stormcast Eternals or Sylvaneth. If all the units and warscroll battalions in your army are Sylvaneth, then it has the Sylvaneth allegiance.

To me the battalion allegiance overrules its units allegiances. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. The sum of the content of the battalion makes a whole with its own allegiance.

I agree with this interpretation, but based on context rather than it being really explicit.

As an example one of the Wargoves is the Ironbark wargove. If you choose to use this Wargrove it allows you to use a unique Artefact instead of one of the other Sylvaneth Artefacts. It also allows you to use up to 2 Duardin units, albeit they gain no direct benefit. However, if fielding the Duardin units denies access to Sylvaneth Alliance, what is the functional difference between Duardin fielded as part of this battalion, and Duardin fielded outside of it (end result of both being having to take the Order Allegiance)? And why would I field them if it denies two advantages of the battalion due to losing the ability to claim Sylvaneth allegiance (the unique artefact, and the max battalion giving a second Wyldwood)?

If we assume the intention of the battalion is that it should be to your advantage to take it and the specific units in it, then a reasonable interpretation of the Allegiance rule is that a Battalion can have an Allegiance that applies to all its constituent parts overriding whatever their own keywords may be.

I have seen that GW are planning to do a Generals Handbook FAQ on its release so perhaps the question should be raised on their Facebook site?

Just assume that a warscroll batalion is a unit. so forget the units that constitute the batalion, in regards to allegiance, just consider the batalion as a sylvaneth unit.

 cyberjonesy wrote:
Just assume that a warscroll batalion is a unit. so forget the units that constitute the batalion, in regards to allegiance, just consider the batalion as a sylvaneth unit.

Is the "Dominus Maniple" start collecting formation a Cult Mechanicus or a Skitarii formation?

Two different factions, one formation.

 Swabby wrote:
If true than it conflicts with the requirements for mighty wyldwood, which you gain for taking the maximum number of battalions in the sylvaneth warscroll battalions that allow taking non sylvaneth models, as you would have to take them and thus lose your sylvaneth allegiance.

It doesn't. The benefit is for taking the maximum number of battalions not the maximum number of units. Note that the only battalions present are Sylvaneth ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mhsellwood wrote:

 Haechi wrote:
Sorry I didn't meant it as a Keyword like on regular warscroll but it does say Sylvaneth on it.

In the Allegiance chapter of the Battletome it says:

Every unit and warscroll battalion owes allegiance to of the grand alliances [...] Many units and warscroll battalions also have have more specific allegiances, for example, Stormcast Eternals or Sylvaneth. If all the units and warscroll battalions in your army are Sylvaneth, then it has the Sylvaneth allegiance.

To me the battalion allegiance overrules its units allegiances. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. The sum of the content of the battalion makes a whole with its own allegiance.

I agree with this interpretation, but based on context rather than it being really explicit.

As an example one of the Wargoves is the Ironbark wargove. If you choose to use this Wargrove it allows you to use a unique Artefact instead of one of the other Sylvaneth Artefacts. It also allows you to use up to 2 Duardin units, albeit they gain no direct benefit. However, if fielding the Duardin units denies access to Sylvaneth Alliance, what is the functional difference between Duardin fielded as part of this battalion, and Duardin fielded outside of it (end result of both being having to take the Order Allegiance)? And why would I field them if it denies two advantages of the battalion due to losing the ability to claim Sylvaneth allegiance (the unique artefact, and the max battalion giving a second Wyldwood)?

If we assume the intention of the battalion is that it should be to your advantage to take it and the specific units in it, then a reasonable interpretation of the Allegiance rule is that a Battalion can have an Allegiance that applies to all its constituent parts overriding whatever their own keywords may be.

I have seen that GW are planning to do a Generals Handbook FAQ on its release so perhaps the question should be raised on their Facebook site?

Also this. While I think the intent is that the non-Sylvaneth in those battalions do not violate allegiance (and would certainly have no problem with an opponent playing this way) there isn't any concrete support for that interpretation.

It seems a tricky one.

Out of interest are all the mixed battalions pointed in the GHB. I thought some were intended for Narrative Play (the "historic" Sylvaneth and Stormcast one for example).

 Haechi wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Which still doesn't change the fact that if you run one of the Warscroll Battalions that feature non-Sylvaneth models?

It's not a Sylvaneth battalion.

It literally says it's a Sylvaneth Battalion. Do whatever you want with it.

They refer to keywords with that sort of thing, it's just a name for the battalion.

No, the Battalions have other names, Sylvaneth is their allegiance, which is has important as a keyword in this case.

No, it's not.
Battalions do not impart keywords.
Wording of allegiance is units AND warscroll battalions
So whilst the battalion may be Sylvaneth, some of the component units are not, so you fail on the *all* requirement.
So no Sylvaneth allegiance RAW, FAQ may decide otherwise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To put another way - if battalion composition overrides the definition of unit, then abilities that affect units in game would affect the whole battalion.
A unit can be part of a battalion, but they are still a discrete unit.

As I have heard, the batallion keywords allow them to follow the allegiance.

IE the batallion where stormcast are with sylvaneth has the sylvaneth keyword so that the sylvaneth allegiance can still be used.

Which is supposed to be a part of the july 23 faq release.

 auticus wrote:
As I have heard, the batallion keywords allow them to follow the allegiance.

IE the batallion where stormcast are with sylvaneth has the sylvaneth keyword so that the sylvaneth allegiance can still be used.

Which is supposed to be a part of the july 23 faq release.

May well be the intent, and would make sense - just not supported to current reading.

 auticus wrote:
As I have heard, the batallion keywords allow them to follow the allegiance.

IE the batallion where stormcast are with sylvaneth has the sylvaneth keyword so that the sylvaneth allegiance can still be used.

Which is supposed to be a part of the july 23 faq release.

Good, I think its much better that way.

So, I asked on the AoS facebook and a guy told me it was already answered that "you go by the battalion allegiance".

 Haechi wrote:
So, I asked on the AoS facebook and a guy told me it was already answered that "you go by the battalion allegiance".

Seems to me that he may be referring to the FAQ Auticus mentioned, since the Facebook team probably had a hand in making it.

Haechi, there is no such designation as battalion allegiance RAW at the moment.

 Swabby wrote:
Haechi, there is no such designation as battalion allegiance RAW at the moment.

There is. Battalions have a faction name attached to them and it is specified that to benefit from an allegiance units and battalions needs to be part of it.

 Haechi wrote:

 Swabby wrote:
Haechi, there is no such designation as battalion allegiance RAW at the moment.

There is. Battalions have a faction name attached to them and it is specified that to benefit from an allegiance units and battalions needs to be part of it.

The issue being that nothing says a battalion's allegiance overrides that of the units it contains.

Also that the battalions in question lack actual keywords as presented on models that do have keywords and the sylvaneth faction is just used in the title.

Hey guys. Asked the question on the Facebook page and got the following response:

Warhammer Age of Sigmar Hey,
We think as long as the Battalion has the Sylvaneth allegiance, you can use the abilities.
We'll have an FAQ alongside the release of the General's Handbook, to clarify a few of these questions.