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http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/35046/asmodee-acquiring-f2z-entertainment

Asmodee have moved to buy F2Z studios (owners of Z-Man Games, Plaid Hat Games, and Filosofia who produce Pandemic and Dead of Winter, have English and French rights to Carcassonne, and French rights to Catan, among many others.)

(not in the article linked, but according to redben on beasts of war F2Z is the largest North American hobby boardgame company outside of the Admodee family of companies)

for us in Europe it will probably mean better (if not cheaper) access to F2Z games, the benefit is less obvious for those in North America (especially those wanting only to buy from American companies), but the size of Asmodee will hopefully provide more cash for R&D (that's making new games to you and me)

For us American's, it will mean reduced places to buy discounted games. Several of my preferred online vendors have basically purged out Asmodee products.

The original creator of Z-Man Games, Zev, left Z-Man when F2Z bought it, so no big loss there.

As usual, BGG'ers are grabbing the pitchforks and torches. These people may or may not be the same a those who think KS is the devil's work...

BGG: https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/56171/asmodee-negotiations-acquire-f2z-entertainment

BGG over reacts to everything and you CAN have a wrong opinion on that site.

It's a great resource site, but their members are Find a better term for someone you disagree with

Remember rule 1 in your posting, thanks

https://www.tabletopgaming.co.uk/board-games/news/it-looks-like-asmodee-has-officially-acquired-f2z-entertainment

Publishing supergroup Asmodee has secured the purchase of fellow publisher F2Z Entertainment, if documents reportedly shared by F2Z business partners are to be believed.

BoardGameGeek posted an announcement from two anonymous F2Z associates seemingly released by F2Z, revealing that the Canadian publisher and distributor would be rebranded as Asmodee Canada – suggesting the resolution of discussions begun back in July concerning the firm’s acquisition.

If true, it means that F2Z – the parent of studios including Z-Man, Plaid Hat, Pretzel and Filosofia Editions and therefore the company behind acclaimed games including Pandemic, Seafall, Dead of Winter and Flick ‘Em Up – joins Fantasy Flight Games, Days of Wonder, Space Cowboys and Catan Studio, among others, under the Asmodee umbrella of games outlets.

According to the same BGG post, citing an ‘informed source’, a full announcement and details of the deal will be released later this week – even now, it looks pretty certain that Asmodee has sealed the deal and obtained a major boost to its already bulging catalogue.

Yay! The monopoly grows! As an American I am a big fan of price fixing! /sarcasm.

I really dislike seeing this niche industry consolidated so much.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Yay! The monopoly grows! As an American I am a big fan of price fixing! /sarcasm.

I really dislike seeing this niche industry consolidated so much.

Isn't that the truth. The sky may not be falling, but the more traction they get over the market and distribution, the less competitive and innovative they have to be. Their "We are doing it for the good of the hobby" BS is down-right insulting as well. You can only get away with the crap they have pulled when you have the weight to do so.

There's no monopoly. You don't have to look farther than KS to see new companies entering the gaming market.

Heck. You don't have to look further than News and Rumors to find games that aren't under the Asmodee umbrella. Some of them are even free.

I don't have time to play all the games I want to play. If Asmodee raises prices so that I don't buy one of their games, fine. I have plenty of other games to play.

EDIT: Of course, then there's this quote from an actual retailer about Asmodee...

This is disgusting. As a small game shop owner that's been "dealing" with Asmodee for years, to go from quick shipping, good margins, regular stock notifications, promotions, and multi-channel availability to this is sickening. Since Asmodee announced, DURING the Christmas Holidays, their plan to shore up more IP's and gaming companies they've done nothing but work really hard at killing small business.

Since Asmodee North America began operating under their new hood they've;

Prohibited brick & mortar shops from selling products online, through our own websites, not even Amazon

Reduced our margins by decreasing the discounts extended to retailers

Refuse to adopt a regular reprint schedule for their IP's with the exception of Catan, which thankfully is still being managed by a Mayfair subsidiary. (Ever wonder why Skull, Small World, Jaipur, Bloody Inn, and so on may as well be considered seasonal titles? May as well throw Civilization in there too.)

Changed their shipping policies so now they refuse to ship anything under $500, even if it's a back-order. So If something isn't available, and I back-order it, if it's available when I don't need anything, they'll cancel the order and wish you luck that it's available when you can make a large enough order.

Their shipping when they were simply Fantasy Flight was already abysmal. Since they offer free freight but encourage you to pay for quicker turnaround, therefore under free freight, you may get your order withing 2 weeks, possibly longer.

The sales reps have ZERO information anymore. No idea's when items are coming back into print, how much is left, or allocations anywhere.


If these negotiations go through, Asmodee will control roughly 80% of roughly 200+ board games I carry in my store. They won't be satisfied till board games become a huge premium, and there's nobody by Amazon and big box retailers left to sell them. I really wish there were some way to call an end to these crappy business practices.

https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/56171/asmodee-negotiations-acquire-f2z-entertainment

A monopoly doesn't in practice mean they are the only game in town, so much as they hold disproportionate power over a specific good.

Asmodee is famous for price-fixing and isn't good to FLGS. The Kickstarters you mentioned are often no help to said FLGS later, so Asmodee stuff, based on visibility and market share is often something stores have to stock to have a variety of inventory. Now they are forced to do business with a company who will happily "punish" them for offering sales they decide are too good, etc...

Nothing about Asmodee cornering a huge portion of a market is good, and the sole upside is better availability of a handful of games in a handful of areas.

So much for good discounts online. Still wish I had bought Star Wars Armada before Asmodee stepped in.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
A monopoly doesn't in practice mean they are the only game in town, so much as they hold disproportionate power over a specific good.

Asmodee is famous for price-fixing and isn't good to FLGS. The Kickstarters you mentioned are often no help to said FLGS later, so Asmodee stuff, based on visibility and market share is often something stores have to stock to have a variety of inventory. Now they are forced to do business with a company who will happily "punish" them for offering sales they decide are too good, etc...

Nothing about Asmodee cornering a huge portion of a market is good, and the sole upside is better availability of a handful of games in a handful of areas.

I belive the correct term would be that they are a Oligopoly. They are quickly becomeing such a large competitor in the market they are dominating. The only reason it's not a true monopoly is because with Kickstarter small start ups can still enter.

Either way not a great envioment for the flgs middlemen trying to make ends meet and support the community.

How are your FGS's going to work in this new environment?

What do game store owners have to say about this merger?

Kickstarters do not count.

Prohibited brick & mortar shops from selling products online, through our own websites, not even Amazon

Why isn't this illegal?

I know there is people on both sides of the fence about what Asmodee is doing. My major worry is that Asmodee is just an arm of a large investment firm and large percentage of the specialty/designer/ect boardgame industry is being run by investors.

I'm sure plenty of people here are video gamers and many have lived through the times where video game companies were run by video gamers, people that loved the hobby. At one point big money firms got their hands into video gaming, consolidating many studios making it what it is today. Many video gamers that grew up in the pre-consolidation era are not happy with how video gaming has turned out, and I dont think alot of people want to see that happen to board gaming. It certainly has not done anything to benefit customers thus far.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Prohibited brick & mortar shops from selling products online, through our own websites, not even Amazon

Why isn't this illegal?

Probably signed a contract, or the better term, nobody has the money to lawyer up and fight it.

These are FLGS owners after all. Even if every store in America teamed up I doubt they would be able to afford to fight it.

https://boardgoats.org/2017/01/05/boardgames-in-the-news-another-year-another-take-over/

For many, Asmodée is the boardgame equivalent of the Borg, so it should be no surprise that the New Year brings yet another Asmodée take-over story. This time the targets are the German publisher and distributor Heidelberger Spieleverlag, the French/Spanish company Edge Entertainment, and the Spanish distributor Millennium. Heidelberger are the German production partner for many companies that are better known in the UK including Fantasy Flight Games, Czech Games Edition, Iello, Indie Boards & Cards and Ferti; they specialise in fantasy, science fiction and horror Games as well as being the distributor for Alea Spiele in Germany. Edge performs a similar function within the French and Spanish games markets while Millennium is primarily a distributor, but has also produced French versions Citadels and Sutter’s Mill. The connection between them is that they were all foreign language partners for Fantasy Flight Games who were bought by Asmodée two and a half years ago. So, these acquisitions give Asmodée complete control of brands like Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game, Android: Netrunner, Cosmic Encounter and Arkham Horror.



The list of Asmodée’s “partners” is extensive, so the question is, who will be next?

That's capitalism I guess.

I wonder when anti-monopoly laws would kick in...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Prohibited brick & mortar shops from selling products online, through our own websites, not even Amazon

Why isn't this illegal?

Because people don't get their legislators to write/pass laws lumping this practice in with any other strong-arm tactics which are counter to the concept of free-market activity/global commerce and are basically a backdoor means of contractual vertical price fixing. Bitching and moaning on the internet will accomplish nothing. Legislation will, but that actually requires properly directed effort, and thousands of businesses and hundreds of thousands of gamers world-wide haven't managed to make much of an effort to pursue that avenue after years of other companies doing this very same thing. Instead, people have not filed class-action lawsuits or contacted their legislators, and have instead allowed these companies to build a foundation of business practice/legal precedent (that is being followed by one company after another no less!), such that it will now certainly be harder to tear down. Such companies will no doubt band together to influence any legislative/legal opposition, so it isn't just about Asmodee (which looks to be the HASBRO of Europe), but all of them. Is it too late? No, but it's a colossal problem now because the initial practitioner of this tactic in the gaming industry, Games Workshop, wasn't nipped in the bud, and for that everyone is to blame.

 Mymearan wrote:
I wonder when anti-monopoly laws would kick in...

Having worked in the field, they should have already kicked in. When Asmodee (#1) tried to buy F2Z (#2) the acquisition should never have gone through. There are simply two problems here: 1. Board games are such a niche thing it's probably beneath regulator notice. 2. Asmodee has enough money to throw at this until they get their way.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
I wonder when anti-monopoly laws would kick in...

Having worked in the field, they should have already kicked in. When Asmodee (#1) tried to buy F2Z (#2) the acquisition should never have gone through. There are simply two problems here: 1. Board games are such a niche thing it's probably beneath regulator notice. 2. Asmodee has enough money to throw at this until they get their way.

I have to disagree with your first point. http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/35150/hobby-games-market-nearly-1-2-billion

Did $1.2 Billion That's US and Canada only. Imagine the rest of the world added to that. Of course a lot of it is thanks to kickstarter, but Board games/hobby games bring in quite a lot of cash.

To counter this though, yea like you said they have enough $ they can throw it at people and push them off. Money solves everything

I'm also a board game retailer, and I have to disagree with the sentiment that Asmodee is anti-FLGS. I don't know which retailer is quoted above, so I can't pretend to know anything about their operation, but it sounds like they're exclusively ordering direct from Asmodee, and seem to be under the impression that's their only option. It isn't. I have my concerns with any company acquiring such a huge percentage of the quality offerings from any one industry, but Asmodee is a publishing company that has long been releasing some of the best games around, and most of their purchases seem to have been made with an eye toward "fixing" the publishers of other great games. Here are my rebuttals of the complaints brought forward by the other retailer:

1) Quick shipping: Asmodee games are carried by every major game distributor in the US, each of which has multiple warehouses nationwide, meaning there should be few stores in the country that aren't a one-day ship from at least one distributor warehouse. I can get Asmodee games the day after I order them now, the same as I could before they owned all these other companies.

2) Good margins: Their wholesale price is now consistent across the board. Depending on which distributors a store uses and how much volume they do, that may mean that this rate is a little higher for some games now, but it isn't drastic and I absolutely understand them wanting to be consistent. Interestingly, I took the biggest hit on actual Asmodee-branded stuff because they adopted Fantasy Flight's slightly worse standard prices. So, FFG wholesale rates are unchanged, and Asmodee, Days of Wonder, Z-Man, etc. got a little worse, but it's still a very good discount for the industry, just not the best discount. It's still a whole lot better than Pokemon or Hasbro.

3) Regular stock notifications: They still do these by email. I'm not sure how else to address this.

4) Promotions: I'm not actually sure what the complaint is here. They don't allow significant discounting, which is pretty transparently pro-retailer. One of the biggest obstacles for any local store is competing with online local discounters. When a company like Asmodee or Mayfair implements a sales agreement that prohibits discounting, it makes stores much more competitive because their prices are comparable to the internet's which helps emphasize their benefits (instant gratification, knowledgable staff, space to play, etc.). If you're talking about wholesale promotions, those don't seem any more or less common to me now than before.

5) Multi-channel availability: This is actually one of the biggest areas of improvement since Asmodee started making purchases, and as far as I can tell this is the reason Asmodee chose to buy many of the companies they did. A few years before all this, a distributor called Alliance (the sister company of the comic industry's Diamond), started making exclusive distribution deals with a number of major publishers. Mayfair, Days of Wonder, Z-Man, Wizkids, and others were suddenly all available only from one distributor, and to top it all off, it was the most soulless, uncaring, and unresponsive of the American distributors. At the time these agreements were made, I was barely ordering from Alliance, but suddenly I had no choice but to order from them all the time. As Admodee has acquired these companies, they've systematically dismantled those exclusivity agreements and brought distributor choices back to retailers. The quoted retailer may not realize that distributors are an option, but stores need only provide their Asmodee account number to their distributors and they can order anything they want.

6) Online sales: I do think this is bad policy, and it's the same mistake GW made. Online sales aren't the issue for brick and mortar stores, online discounters are. They already limit discounts, so there's no reason to also limit online vending. GW, for the record, only limits online vending, not discounts, which is the absolute most backward way of addressing the problem.

7) Reprints: And this is the other reason Asmodee seems to be buying companies. Stock availability was always an issue for FFG and has been for Z-Man since they were last acquired. Has Asmodee completely fixed those problems? Not yet, but they've made headway. No availability has gotten worse for retailers since Asmodee got involved, and it seems to be getting better little-by-little. I can't imagine there's an overnight fix for this, since it's likely a matter of cashflow and personpower when it comes to reprinting the hundreds of offerings some of these companies have.

If anything, Asmodee's crusade seems to be about saving local stores from online discounting, exclusive distribution, and supply chain issues. All of their purchases are of companies that had issues in one or more of these areas. I'm not sure where perceptions to the contrary are coming from, at least among retailers.

Is getting a discount online such a quintessential part of the gaming experience that some won't purchase without getting a deal?

I buy from FLGS exclusively. It limits my purchases to what I can afford rather than bigger amounts on credit to "get a better deal." Supporting small businesses is probably the best for a local, diversified economy.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Is getting a discount online such a quintessential part of the gaming experience that some won't purchase without getting a deal?

I buy from FLGS exclusively. It limits my purchases to what I can afford rather than bigger amounts on credit to "get a better deal." Supporting small businesses is probably the best for a local, diversified economy.

Pretty much all consumers of any good are anti-business in the sense that they think retail establishments should only ever sell to them at wholesale price and never ever turn a profit. I see it every single day where I work. People want the lowest possible price and they don't care if you go out of business giving it to them.

It's sad, but that's just the American way.

I can turn all this around and blame the store owners instead of the customers.

Mr.Church13 wrote:

Pretty much all consumers of any good are anti-business in the sense that they think retail establishments should only ever sell to them at wholesale price and never ever turn a profit.

I can say all store owners are sleazy and try to milk their customers for every penny they have and only want a profit and don't care if the customer is satisfied with their purchase or gets a deal.

I see it every single day where I work. People want the lowest possible price and they don't care if you go out of business giving it to them.

I see it every single day where a company wants to make the most money and expect it and shouldn't do anything to get business and people should just give them money just because they are in business.

It's sad, but that's just the American way.

Ah but that is the American way, pay as little to make something but sell it as much as possible. So a customer is not allowed to have options? A customer is not allowed to have choices? OH WAIT! That is the American way as well. So your point is Mr Church?

So how about instead of placing blame, the customer gets what they want at a fair price and the business delivers a product that the customer is willing to buy? If the business can't deliver what the customer wants, should the business stay in business then? Does this mean everyone should be buying GW products at only GW stores and no where else?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Is getting a discount online such a quintessential part of the gaming experience that some won't purchase without getting a deal?
.

Absolutely. Not only do some companies charge ridiculous prices, but there are tons of worthy products to buy on the market right now. There might be 4 or 5 companies selling generic sci fi troopers that I like, for example, so which one am I going to buy? The one I get the best price-for-quality per mini. If I want to buy spaceships, I might like DFC for its quality but pick up some almost-as-great bandai stuff for a third of the price to scratch that itch; when DFC goes on sale, the math works out differently and I'll buy that. With so many options on the market, there is almost no reason at all to pay what the manufacturer wants you to believe is a reasonable price.

And the local FLGSes offer discounts here. Not as great as online, but enough to make supporting the local business a bit more palatable. (For the record, I buy most of my stuff through one FLGS or another.)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Prohibited brick & mortar shops from selling products online, through our own websites, not even Amazon

Why isn't this illegal?

Forced Arbitration clauses in contracts favor the big corporations.

Davor wrote:
I can turn all this around and blame the store owners instead of the customers.

Mr.Church13 wrote:

Pretty much all consumers of any good are anti-business in the sense that they think retail establishments should only ever sell to them at wholesale price and never ever turn a profit.

I can say all store owners are sleazy and try to milk their customers for every penny they have and only want a profit and don't care if the customer is satisfied with their purchase or gets a deal.

I see it every single day where I work. People want the lowest possible price and they don't care if you go out of business giving it to them.

I see it every single day where a company wants to make the most money and expect it and shouldn't do anything to get business and people should just give them money just because they are in business.

It's sad, but that's just the American way.

Ah but that is the American way, pay as little to make something but sell it as much as possible. So a customer is not allowed to have options? A customer is not allowed to have choices? OH WAIT! That is the American way as well. So your point is Mr Church?

So how about instead of placing blame, the customer gets what they want at a fair price and the business delivers a product that the customer is willing to buy? If the business can't deliver what the customer wants, should the business stay in business then? Does this mean everyone should be buying GW products at only GW stores and no where else?

Who is the customer to set the fair price? They don't manufacture the good. They don't inherit the risks of a business selling the goods. They don't know what the whole cost of the good is total. Even in the rare case that they do, you know that a business has to consider a lot more than just the fallacy of customer gouging in the price that it sets. Yes, there should well and good be competition, but a business is a business and the consumer has to realize that making a profit is kind of the reason to be in business.

But correct me if I'm wrong. What you are proposing is basically "Sell me all your goods at free/cost and find somewhere else to make money.". Which is terrible for everyone.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
[Who is the customer to set the fair price? They don't manufacture the good. They don't inherit the risks of a business selling the goods. They don't know what the whole cost of the good is total. Even in the rare case that they do, you know that a business has to consider a lot more than just the fallacy of customer gouging in the price that it sets. Yes, there should well and good be competition, but a business is a business and the consumer has to realize that making a profit is kind of the reason to be in business.

So if a business is selling sardines, and I hate sardines, why do I have to buy from him? I don't even like sea food. So because he is a business I have to buy from him because he put in the money and effort in? That is what I mean, offer me a product at fair price for me to buy. So offer me a burger but you don't want to sell me a burger, so I have to buy sardines so you can have a profit?

Or, I want to buy a book, why do I have to buy bras from you just because you opened up a bra store?

I think we are totally thinking differently here. What I am saying is, yes you put up the money, yes you took the time, thing is I don't like sardines so why do I have to buy them?

But correct me if I'm wrong. What you are proposing is basically "Sell me all your goods at free/cost and find somewhere else to make money.". Which is terrible for everyone.

You are totally wrong. I am not saying sell me your goods at free/cost at all. What I am saying is, "why am I shopping at your store? What are you offering me?"

I had this talk with a store already. I asked "why are you selling as much as GW is offering" and the reply was "we need to make a profit as well."

My reply "I can go down the street and save a few pennies or get it a little cheaper. Will you not give me some deal to KEEP shopping at your store"

Store "No we will not do that."

Me "Sorry then, I will have to go and shop there since they seem to be more interested in giving me their business."

You are correct. We don't know the money they put in. We don't know the blood sweat and tears they do. We also don't know how much profit they make and can be milking us dry. Like really, you are so tight up for a $3 pot of paint (cost at the time) that you don't want me to spend $200 or more and keep coming back? If you are not interested in keeping me as a customer, then I have no interest in having you as a store to buy from.

Again, this is nothing about getting something for free. Why am I obligated to shop at that or any other store? That is what COMEPETION is for. That is like telling me to listen to only one radio station so they can get more advertising money or only watch one tv channel so they get more advertising money and I am not allowed to switch stations or channels now because they will not be receiving the advertising dollars.

I have spent a lot of money. Ok for a lot of people $200 or $300 is not a lot of money. But I asked, can't I get this pot of paint for free at least? At least I felt like I was being wanted as a customer and they said no. So I took my $200 or so bucks and went down the street where I saved about $20.

Again, it's "what can the store offer me" not "what do I have to offer the store". I am not here to buy stuff form the store, it's the store that is wanting to sell to me. So if the store is not selling to me, why do I have to buy from there?

After all, there is MILLIONS of people who shop at Walmart. Why is that? So it's the customers who are evil and bad because the other stores didn't give them what they wanted?