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Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







G'day,

I have an ever growing collection of shapeways ships for x-wing, most of which I use as proxies. However I have recently acquired a couple of Dunelizards and made up these cards for them and am after critique. My thought process was not to make them broken but inline with the current x-wing ships. The dial is basically a Scyks but with the 3k replaced (to avoid a green k when given unhinged astro).
The biggest concerns are obviously the pricing and whether they should have 3 attack and no cannon, or two attack and cannon slots. Canon wise is what is represented here but I am thinking this just makes it too much like a heavy Scyk with a hull upgrade.

What do people think?

Cheers in advance.





This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/14 09:59:35


On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






IMO it has too many greens and should lose the 3-speed greens, but other than that it seems ok. A Scyk with the title and a hull upgrade is 19 points and unanimously agreed to be overcosted by a significant margin. You drop it by 1 point and add two useful upgrade slots (the droid being more valuable than the illicit slot). On the other hand taking more than the cheapest upgrades in those slots isn't automatic since it starts to get expensive on a ship that already has to pay 3+ points for a gun, so those slots are worth less than you might think at first glance. It probably comes out close enough to balanced to be worth playtesting, and I wouldn't be surprised if you end up dropping the cost by a point or two.

The 3-attack version could also be balanced but would require a significant point increase.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




Standard armament for the Dunelizard was a pair of medium laser cannons - you occasionally saw it in Star Wars Galaxies with torpedoes, but no heavy guns - you could only fit ion cannons by pulling the standard lasers - it never had the cannon "as well" and couldn't fit the big guns.

Therefore I'd be hesitant to give it a cannon slot - besides which, making it distinct from the scyk is important.

On the other hand, the same is true of the Scyk, i guess.


Twin medium lasers is better than a scyk (which only had twin lights) but still only the same as a TIE fighter so I wouldn't think you can justify 3 attack dice. On the other hand, I guess that is the same as the attack shuttle....


Sticking with two dice and the cannon slot - Calling it a scyk with a hull upgrade and a (salvaged) astromech slot is a fair starting point - because (narratively) that's exactly what it is.

Taking it as printed, I'd agree with dropping the speed 3 greens. If nothing else, you've given it a salvaged astromech slot - making all the speed 3 moves green takes away the unhinged astromech as a relevant option.

I'd probably, as suggested, drop it a point. Probably not more than that, because a 16 point base puts you in "5 mangler cannons" territory, which I'd be hesitant to commit to without trying it first.

At 17 points, you can pack a flechette cannon and an unhinged astromech and still take 5 of them; enough to compare favourably with a basic khiraxz or mando fighter.

The main thing I think I'd want to do is figure out how to make them distinct from just being a scyk with a hull upgrade. Given that they normally sported upgraded lasers (but not 'big guns'), maybe they could have a cannon upgrade which isn't a secondary weapon, but is a modifier for the primary weapon (call it "refitted weapons")? It's not unprecedented - neither Extra Munitions and Seismic Torpedoes are secondary weapons.

Double bonus if it has something that would interact well with the 'attack' salvaged astromechs: R4 agromech, overclocked R4 and R4-B11 - which would imply spending focus tokens whilst attacking, and/or playing games with a defender's green dice.

That's a nice option if the card is cheap because it gives you a mechanic to make the scyk more attractive - if a 'heavy scyk' at 16 points was closer to an Alpha Squadron Pilot's 3 attack/3 hits/3 agility, it'd be a lot more appealing, and if you limit the upgrade to the scyk/dunelizard, you don't have to worry about outside interactions (B-wings spring to mind).








Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







Cheers for the input,
So you both agree that the 3 greens should turn white, do you think that goes for the forward as well? Happy with the action bar as?

Locarno, I wanted to have a nod to the fluff but don't feel bound by it, neither do FFG after all! I saw that there was an option for upgrading to Ion cannons so thought the slot was warranted. It doesn't actually make much sense with the model/pics but could always say they are shrouded etc.
If you lost the cannon and had 2 attack then it would make the ship a worse version of a Z-95, faster and more nimble but with a worse distribution of hull/shield. As generic Zs are pretty much only ever used as bumbers or Zappers the Lizard wouldn't see any use unless it was much cheaper (like 12pts) but then the Z being hardier is still better. I am really not keen on FFGs policy of using Titles as fixes or because they needed to add more text to the card (eg. the ARC) but will ponder some more on your suggestion.

I have pondered long and hard about the trade between 3 attack or cannon and thought this version was better. With three attack it seems to just try to be an interceptor type and is too cheap for that role and not good enough when costed appropriately.
With Cannon, I could see a spot for one with a Mangler or Ion in a squadron, possibly even an autoblaster (though getting pricey).

With an astro and illicit can you see any combos that could be broken? I played around with all the cards I have and got a couple of others to do the same but we always come back to having neither used! With white threes I imagine the unhinged would be a shoe in, but the illicit doesn't seem to be worth using.

For unique pilots, any suggestions? I am thinking PS 6 and 8, both keeping the EPT (don't want a 9 due to the Soontir effect). Ability wise I am stumped, every time I come up with something I think is good, it is either too good (like stupidly) or so situational it makes Graz look worthwhile. I like the thought of playing with range bands/arcs (like a tactician type) or things that combine actions (barrel roll and get an evade for example) but would welcome any input.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




With an astro and illicit can you see any combos that could be broken? I played around with all the cards I have and got a couple of others to do the same but we always come back to having neither used! With white threes I imagine the unhinged would be a shoe in, but the illicit doesn't seem to be worth using.


Salvaged Astromech:

With white speed three moves the unhinged becomes worth considering - it's not exactly an automatic choice unless shedding stress is vital (which usually means you're running Push The Limit or similar).

The Salvaged Astromech.....2 points to bin off a ship critical (about 75% of criticals) is okay....with the extra hull it's more tempting but I still don't think it's that great on anything smaller than a Y-wing.

Overclocked R4 - not bad; focus re-use in return for stress. Essentially it's a cheaper, reusable glitterstim in a different slot. Attani Mindlink and Overclocked R4 might be something to watch for, but ultimately multiple use focus only really matters on the defense, and only one ship (normally) is getting shot at at once.

R4 Agromech - spend a focus, gain a target lock....not bad, but not amazing. Given that you've hard-locked it to cannons, not torps or missiles, this isn't too big a deal.

"Genius" - irrelevant; bomb specific

R4-B11 - nice in theory. Zuckuss shows how scary rerolling a defender's dice is, but you actually need a decent attack roll for it to matter and if you want to put (say) predator, heavy laser cannon, R4-B11 on the same fighter you're into ridiculous glass cannon levels. With 2 attack dice he doesn't really cut it for his cost. I suspect that unless you can gain your target lock free in some way, this guy isn't too hot (hence why the only time you normally see him is on Drea Renthal).

Illicits

Hot-Shot Blaster - a cheap, one-use 3-dice turret. Not a bad call for a ship likely to be tough enough to actually get to fire it. No particular interactions with anything other than Munitions Failsafe (which seems a bit expensive; 4 points to put a turret on a fairly fragile ship).

Inertial Dampers - not bad, but again, you're into the problem that this is ultimately a ship which kind of resembles the TIE advanced. Oh no! your secret super-special card got you a shot I wasn't expecting. Dink. Dodged it.

Glitterstim - If you've got a ship likely to attack and be attacked multiple times, this is good. However, the same effect is possible for a point less with overclocked R4 - beware of "add a focus result" abilities, though.

Black Market Slicer Tools - this, on a fast ship, makes for a good ace-hunter. I don't think there is a specific interaction with anything, though - it's stress on your opponent, not yourself, that matters.

Feedback Array - you're essentially a Z-95 with a slightly better dial and barrel roll. So you're better placed to get feedback attacks, but you're more expensive per hull given up. I think this might see some use, but it's probably a wash with current headhunter pilots.

Deadman's switch - Any plan based on killing your pilots is probably a bad one. This could be made useable in conjunction with a pilot ability, though.


I don't see any particular broken combinations.


Pilot abilities:


Well, the one named Dunelizard pilot I can think of is from the FFG RPG Edge Of The Empire story "The Long Arm Of The Hutt" - which makes sense, because one of the Z-95 pilots (Kaa'To Leachos) is also an NPC from a previous Edge Of The Empire story ("Under A Black Sun").

He's a rather cocky kubaz (the hooded dudes with the elephant trunk). In game:

Thwheek is rather overconfident and begins his attack using the Stay on Target maneuver to increase his
chance of hitting. The first time he is hit by the crew of the Krayt Fang, he changes tactics and switches to Evasive Maneuvers.


Which to me sounds like a variation on Epsilon Ace's ability - as long as you have no damage cards assigned, [effect to improve your shooting attacks].

This could be extra attack dice, a reroll to hit, or a free token assigned at the start of the combat phase. Seeing comments above, if you wanted to try and make R4-B11 tempting, letting him gain a free target lock means he'd be able to fire a cannon, use a focus token on it, then use a target lock with R4-B11 to crack your green dice (or just focus/target lock the cannon).



As to the other pilot, if you wanted to make the Deadman's switch tempting (it's another illicit I never see used), then you'd want to encourage him to be at range 1 - but in a way that doesn't encourage the feedback array. Since the Feedback Array is used instead of shooting, and ionizes you, then either it should trigger off attacking, or else off performing a green/red move (which you can't do after ionizing yourself).

Making it trigger off range 1 attacks is interesting, because that in turn might also make the autoblaster cannon interesting; a PS8 pilot with an autoblaster and an 'attacking at range 1' ability is tempting, because there's also the potential interaction with Fearlessness as well as Deadman's Switch, both of which essentially want you to park yourself in range 1 in your opponent's arc of fire.

I might even be tempted to make it a "you may suffer 1 damage to" ability - because if impressive enough, you can in theory fly in, unload an autoblaster burst, use fearlessness to add an (undodgeable) hit, damage yourself to trigger some other bonus, and leave yourself in a state where if your opponent shoots at you you will die (you're a 4-hit ship at range 1 - killing you ain't hard) and then blow up doing extra damage with the deadman's switch.

If you end up dropping it by a point, then 2 points for an EPT pilot at PS6, leaves it at 22, and 24 for PS8 EPT.

Add in an autoblaster (5), fearlessness (1) and deadman's switch (2), and you're at 32 points, though - that's a lot. It'd have to be a bloody good ability, especially since you're essentially turning the pilot into a kamikaze.




Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







So with the release of FFG's massive FAQ blunder with the Heavy Syck title what are peoples opinions of changing these cards to three red dice but keeping the price the same? I am still working my way through the elite pilots but am having a world of trouble making things reasonable, make sense and not be too wordy. I have play tested them all a fair few times and whilst the generics seem to be reasonable I would appreciate some more feedback.

For elite pilots I was thinking of a PS6 with built in predator at 23pts and a Turr analogue at PS7 for 24pts.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







Just bumping this again to add images of the ships.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/14 03:10:41


On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Villanous Scum







Scored myself some shapeways credit so am adding a Kimogila, Blastboat and a pair of cloakshapes to the fleet, any advice on these? (please note the Kimogila is on a large base).






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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/14 10:01:32


On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
 
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