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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




A set of experimental rules for easterling seige machines. First of some generic seige rules.
Conflagration
If a wooden object zis set on fire (gates and seige machines) it will recieve D6 damage each turn.
Each turn this rule is in play roll a dice for each flaming object. On a 6 the fire burns out. On a 1 it grows larger and there is plus 1 to each damage roll. This effect is stackable. (Dropped)
Doused.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doused.
If a model is standing next to a water feature ( well, lake or river) then it may pick up a bucket of water. The model may move with it but if it engages or is engaged in close combat, fires a ranged weapon or takes a wound in any way the bucket is dropped. If the model is standing next to a flaming item you may then roll a d6 to douse it. On a D4 or higher the fire is put out.
(Dropped)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot to mention that these are based of the Osprey books seige weapons of the far east and are all real.
Cloud ladder.
Acts mostly like a normal ladder but cannot be knocked down.

More later.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Triple bow seige crossbow.
Strength 9 Defense 8 Batterpoints 4. 290 points.
Flaming ammunition 10 points .
Multishot bolts 10 points.( fires 8 strength 2 shots volleyfire)

Piercing shot rule applies excluding multishot.

Flame lance
Weapons option available to easterling warriors. 2 pts.
Once per game may be used as a melee attack against 1 model ( ignores armour) or a strength 2 with flaming ammunition against a seige target ( melee).
Otherwise it's used as an ordinary spear
Constructive criticism welcome.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2016/09/26 20:26:44


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa






New England

Hey buddy,

Welcome to Dakka. You can always edit your first post with new content, we'll see it.

In Battle Companies, an alternate way of playing SBG, there is a scenario called Fear! Fire! Foes! in which includes some rules for dousing flames. We specifically chose to not bother with buckets and water features because this game is valued in part for its simplicity. To keep things simple models may roll a 4+ to douse the flames. This represents cloaks being used to snuff the fire, maybe someone grabbed a bucket, and other elements of the imagination.

I'd go so far as to say that conflagration, of your house rules, should be 1 batter point of damage each turn until it is doused. Most objects do not have that much health and it actually takes a while to burn through wood. 1 batter point per turn represents the flame taking its toll.

However! SBG, at least the LOTR SBG rules, had an upgrade called flaming ammunition that just granted the equivalent of poison to the weapon's attacks which was generally powerful enough. Conflagration right now is basically saying that you deal 2 damage per shot and then by the next turn it is pretty much gone from fire damage before anyone can snuff out the flames with a bucket of water or not, especially if you are shooting a mordor catapult.

I simply think that Conflagration is too powerful and conflicts and contradicts an existing universal upgrade.

The multishot thing is cool, but I do not understand why a triple bow can shoot 8 times. Perhaps it:

Shoot one str 9 shot or 3 str 3 shots. (Something to that effect). This would decrease the cost of the ballista a bit too.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/25 22:35:10


   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Thanks for the advice. As for the multishot rule it doesn't fire 8 times rather " it was possible to fire several arrows from one string... ... one general who replaced the set of one large wooden arrow and progressively smaller bolts by 10 iron bolts only 8 inches long." I'll drop the multishot to strength 2 but how much would this drop cost?
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa






New England

Well,

We can assume a few things based off of some studies of warriors and heroes found here: http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29569.

Warriors pay 1 point per stat/specialrule/gear (while some units like the Druadan get stuff for free) and heroes pay 5 points.

Let's see what patterns lie in the other siege engines.
Spoiler:

A Mordor Siege Bow
- is the cost of 10 orc warriors with no upgrades
- It has 22 Stats in its profile
- 10 points of orc warriors included
- It has 2 special rules

After subtracting the Orc Warriors, we have a 40pt Siege Bow.

Analysis
If the stats are 1 point each and the special rules are 5 points, then we have 32 points on the siege bow's value.

If the special rules are 10 points it is a 42 point siege bow value. So far, the special rules at 10 points is pretty accurate.

If the special rules are 5 points but Batter Points are 2 points each then it puts it at 35 points. Perhaps it having the rules of a siege engine adds 5 points.


Mordor Catapult
- is the cost of 18 orc warriors with no upgrades
- 24 stats
- Includes 15 points of Orc Warrior
- It has 2 special rules

After subtracting the orc warriors, we have a 75 point Catapult.

Analysis
If stats are 1 point and special rules are 5 points, then we have 34 points of value. (Okay so this theory is looking less likely if we assume that the Siege Bow is accurately costed)

If special rules are 10 points, it increases to 44 points.
(Hm, interesting... there is still a large gap.)

If special rules are 10 points and batter points are 2 then we are at 48. (Okay, definitely some inconsistencies with value of siege equipment.)


[Isengard Assault Ballista]
- is the cost of 13 Orc Warriors with no upgrades
- 23 stats
- includes 27 points of Uruk-Hai Warriors (however additional crew cost 10..) So we'll humor them and say 30 points.
- it has 2 special rules

After subtracting the Uruks we have a 35 point ballista

Analysis
If stats are 1 point and special rules are 5 points, this is a 33 point siege weapon.

If special rules are 10 points it is a 43 point ballista

If special rules are 10 and batter points are 2 this is a 47 point ballista.

So far we have found that through these three methods of assessing point cost that it is more than just simple algrebra to determine the value of siege weapons as one category, but ballista seem to have a similar cost at best. Knowing this, let's look at the two good ballista.

[Avenger Bolt Thrower]
- is the cost 14 orc warriors with no upgrades
- 20 stats
- includes 14 points of WoMT crew (interesting that Isengard pays a premium for their crew)
- has 2 special rules
- has a special weakness (we can say it cancels out one special rule)

If we subtract the crew we have 56 points of siege equipment.

If cost is 1:5 stat-special rule ratio, then this should be 25 points

If cost is 1:10, this is 35

If cost is 1:10 and batter points are 2 then this is a 41 pointer.

Interesting, but the fire rate and decreased range play weird factors.. maybe that is what is goofing it up.

[Dwarf Ballista]
- is the cost of 12 orc warriors without upgrades
- has 22 stats
- has 2 special rules
- includes 16 points of dwarf crew

After subtracting the crew.... we have 44 value on the ballista.

1:5 = 32
1:10 = 42
1:10 and expensive wounds = 45



Conclusion: There are no obvious patterns that I have found by looking at most of the siege weapons, except that Ballista are similary costed. Kind of.

Let me take a look at your ballista now.

[Triple Bow Siege Crossbow]
-290 points
-21 stats
-1 special rule
-I am assuming it has 3 Easterling Warriors with Heavy Armour as crew (21 points)

Subtracting the easterling warriors: 269 point ballista

Without even going through the analysis we have found that your ballista is grossly overpriced when not taking upgrades.

Your ballista should be 26-40 points + the easterling warrior crew. 35-60 is a safe bet. Following the rules for proposed profiles on The Last Alliance Forums, we add a home-made tax of 5-10 points. I'd say it'd be about 50-60 points in the end, this includes the cost of the 3 crew.

Your suggested change in the multi-shot upgrade would probably be 10 points for starters, it can change depending on how effective it ends up being. I'd even say that multishot should be included as part of the default profile since it will be an auto-include to get the variety.

Since you have not supplied a change in fire arrows, I'd say its cost would be huge due to how effective the attack is. I'd easily make it triple the cost of the siege bow at least. Being able to all but one-shot siege targets is huge. However, if I were debating adding this to the current game, I'd say no altogether.

I think allowing it to take the same upgrades as a mordor siege bow as well as the multi-shot upgrade as another option would be more than enough to add to the game and make it an interesting choice. The fact that it can, with the upgrade, shoot volley-fire in Hobbit SBG makes it something that I'd consider myself.

My Draft:

Triple Bow of Rhun
70 Points
Strength 9 Defense 8 Batterpoints 4

Options: See Mordor Siege Bow
(Replace the options for additional Orc Crew and Captain with Default Easterling Warriors and Captain profiles of their respective cost)

Special Rules
Piercing shot: See Mordor Siege Bow
Multi Shot Bolts: May fires 8 strength 2 shots following the Volley Fire Rules. These shots do not gain the benefit of "Piercing Shot".

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Thank you. A lot.
I'll leave the original profile there so that this conversation will make sense to me if I look over it later but I,m definetly using your suggestion.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa






New England

Glad that I could help!

   
 
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