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I know its not a huge change of scene from Tau to Eldar, but my brother has stopped playing 40k (He prefers living in WoW) and has left me his Eldar army. Now with all due respect to him, he had no clue how to paint or what models to collect, but I managed to salvage some stuff and with a bit of work and money I could get something together.

And seeing as the new codex is coming up soon I figured it wouldn't be such a bad idea to get to work on them. However in the mean time I would like to play with them, so I put together a 1750 Biel Tan list. And here it is:

===HQ===
-Farseer @77pts: CC, pistol, Mind War, Fortune.
-Farseer @77pts: CC, pistol, Mind War, Fortune.

===TROOPS===
-Howling Banshees @299pts: 8 Banshees + Exarch w/ Executioner. Waverserpent (135pts) w/ t-l brightlance, spirit stone.
-Howling Banshees @299pts: 8 Banshees + Exarch w/ Executioner. Waverserpent (135pts) w/ t-l brightlance, spirit stone.
-Howling Banshees @117pts: 5 Banshees + Exarch w/ Executioner.
-Howling Banshees @117pts: 5 Banshees + Exarch w/ Executioner.

===FAST ATTACK===
-Vyper @95pts: Brightlance, CTM.
-Vyper @95pts: Brightlance, CTM.

===HEAVY SUPPORT===
-Falcon @190pts: Starcannon, Holofield, Spirit Stone.
-Falcon @190pts: Starcannon, Holofield, Spirit Stone.
-Falcon @190pts: Starcannon, Holofield, Spirit Stone.


The idea is that the 2 Farseers go in the Wave Serpents with the HBs to give them Fortune. The two small HB units go in two of the Falcons. Those 4 units then rush forward 24" turn one, disembark in turn 2 and assault.

I'm aware that finding enough cover to hide everything in case I don't get the first turn might be hard, but with 25% terrain it shouldn't be too hard.

I think its a very stylish list, super fast and incredibly hard hitting, maybe a tad harsh ?

Any suggestions ?

Give the Farseers Witchblades. You plan to have them stuck in, may as well equip them for the fight. It also adds the ability to take out armoured targets such as dreadnaughts (who are a danger to the banshee squads) or to split off the Farseer in later rounds to go after a predator or Land Raider. To get the points, drop the CMT from the Vipers. I've never been a fan of a 30pt upgrade on a doomed to die model like the viper.

Its a nice concept. Propably drop Mind War? Also Im not sure about the second Farseer. What about the Exarchs. Are thouse costeficient?

Maybe drop some of the above mentioned stuff and get another unit to ride in the last Falcon?

Are starcannons cheaper on the falcon than on the waveserpents or vypers? I only ask because it would seem like the brightlances would complement the pulse laser on the falcon better than the starcannons.

Ezz

On a Falcon, the starcannon is a defensive weapon, allowing the Falcon to go full speed and still shoot all guns.

1) The Vypers should have Starcannons instead of Bright Lances because of their poor BS. Two Brightlances plus the Pulse Lasers on the Falcons (if needed) should be enough AT fire for this army.


2) I agree that the Farseers should lose Mind War. I would also suggest you give them the Runes of Warding. It is only 5 points and may well prevent you failing to get Fortune at the critical moment in the game.


3) Besides that, I'd say your list is pretty nice. You may want to consider putting one or even two units of Fire Dragons into the Falcons (instead of the Banshees) to give yourself a bit more balance in the army. Fire Dragons can hop out of a vehicle and pretty much nuke any vehicle or small well-armored unit, especially when combined with the Falcon's very potent shooting.

===HQ===
-Farseer @99pts: Singing Spear, pistol, Runes of Witnessing, Mind War, Fortune.
-Farseer @99pts: Singing Spear, pistol, Runes of Witnessing, Mind War, Fortune.

===TROOPS===
-Howling Banshees @299pts: 8 Banshees + Exarch w/ Executioner. Waverserpent (135pts) w/ t-l brightlance, spirit stone.
-Howling Banshees @299pts: 8 Banshees + Exarch w/ Executioner. Waverserpent (135pts) w/ t-l brightlance, spirit stone.
-Howling Banshees @117pts: 5 Banshees + Exarch w/ Executioner.
-Fire Dragons @131pts: 5 FDs + Exarch w/ Firepike.
-Fire Dragons @131pts: 5 FDs + Exarch w/ Firepike.

===HEAVY SUPPORT===
-Falcon @190pts: Starcannon, Holofield, Spirit Stone.
-Falcon @190pts: Starcannon, Holofield, Spirit Stone.
-Falcon @190pts: Starcannon, Holofield, Spirit Stone.

Total 1747pts.

This way i get the most use out of my falcons, although I understan what you mean about the Farseers, i'll probably be using fortune the whole time anyway so Mind War, as cool as it is against Asp Champs etc, will probably never be used. So I could drop it and take RoW instead leaving me with some points for  maybe star engines on the Wave Serpents ?

You only have 32 troops in this army list... Be aware that you will have a VERY difficult time against some armies because of this. Nids and orcs will have well over 100 models at this points level, and though banshees are hard hitting, they don't have a lot of staying power versus a sea of assault troops. Further, horde armies will be able to safely ignore your vehicles, since you don't have enough of those to make a dent in them, either. The army will walk all over marines, make no mistake, but it's laughable against larger armies.

Yeah, against horde assault armies i thought I'd have a hard time, but since I'm nor going to take this to a Tournament (that why my Tau of Death are for) and my only opponents are Necrons, CSM, SM, SoB, so only MEqs really.

Like you said, it's very stylish. If painted well and you have good opponents you'll have great games. 

I wouldn't buy star engines. I'd stop at RoW.

Anyway, I think the list suffers from the "too many chiefs not enough indians" syndrom. Too many exarchs. Fire dragons are considerably cheaper without the exarchs and don't really lose effectiveness.

-Consider ditching both Fire Dragon exarchs and using just six regular dragons per squad.

-Consider not using using the falcon born banshees.

-With these saved points think about getting a five man Dark Reaper squad. They put out enough shots to make a difference against most horde armies (that don't shoot very well). With the five tanks you have on the table they should not get shoht at too much. If there are whirlwinds and such just put 'em in a Falcon until the whirlwinds and such are not a factor. As few as two turns of shooting can earn back their victory points given the right circumstances (which you can manufacture with an army like this). 

Another option is to run guardians with starcannons intead of fire dragons.

You could get two such squads at eight models each with the starcannons (no warlocks...) and have enough points left over to buy the farseers ghosthelms which are very useful for getting saves against perils of the warp and helping against big nasty demons.

 

Happy Hunting 

 

 

Based on the original list, I would ditch the mind wars on the farseers. How often do you think you are going to be using mindwar and not using fortune? I would guess the ocasions would be rare...espicaly since you will have to be within 18 inches of the enemy to do it. So save yourself some points. I would sugest picking up witchblades and runes of witnessing. Sounds like you are going to be in the thick of the fight so you'll want to have some decent weapons. And as said earlier, witchblades mean you can kill dreadnaughts and tanks if you get close to them. Singing spears are ok, but you are probably ging to be in hadn to hand most of (if not all of) the time so I doubt you will get much use out of them...that and (if I remember correctly) they are two handed so you can't combine them with a pistol (check your codex on that one though).

You may want to make some adjustments to your vypers as well. With the bright lances you have on the wave serpents and the potential anti tank use of puls lasers from the falcons, I would recomend you strip the lances off the vypers and go with star cannons. I peraonaly don't like crystal targeting matrixes on vypers either but that's more personal choice and you can try it and see how it goes for you. Just remember 2 matrixes ~ 1 additional vyper.

As is usual, you are going to have to be really careful with your banshees.  Once they disembark from their transports, they can shoot or they can fleet, but they can't assualt.  So you had best make sure there isn't going to be much around that can shoot at them.  Also remember your skimmers do not block line of sight.  That aside, you should do fairly well against marines and poorly against hord armies.  This list does not have the numbers necessary to take down hord nid, orc, or IG armies.  Keep that in mind.

 

BTW, as for the list being "too harsh" be aware that any Eldar army that has more than one Falcon with a Holo-field/Spirit Stone will often ruffle some players feathers.

Taking 3 such Falcons will nearly assure you wins, but will likely not get you very good sportsmanship/comp scores.


And I disagree about fighting horde armies. You just don't drop the troops out of their transports. Then you use the manueverability and firepower of the army to isolate a chunk of the enemy, drop the troops out and finish off that chunk. Rinse and repeat.

Although I do like the addition of the Fire Dragons (as I suggested), losing the Vypers may be too big a penalty. You are really going to need the extra 6 Star Cannon shots the Vypers will put out. You have some tough choices to make (besides losing the Mind Wars, what are they still doing in the list?), but the list is pretty potent right now.

One tactic I like to use, but would require you to change up your list a bit is to figure out a way to put the Farseers in the Falcons and give them Guide (along with Fortune). While the unit is in the Falcon, the Farseer can guide the Falcon. This makes your Falcons that much more devestating to the enemy. Of course, that would kind of screw up your whole Banshee/Farseer thing you've got going on right now. . .so just think about it.

Ok, I made all the changes. I'd love to be able to have a Farseer with Guide in the Falcons, but I'd prefer to have the Farseers giving Fortune to the HBs, and I can't do both.

I don't want any static elements like Dark Reapers (as cool as they are) or Guardians. The whole points of the list is that it is very fast.

===HQ===
-Farseer @80pts: Fortune, Witchblade, RoW.
-Farseer @80pts: Fortune, Witchblade, RoW.

===TROOPS===
-Howling Banshees @300pts: 8HB+Exarch w/ Executioner. Wave Serpent (135pts) w/ t-l bright lance, SS.
-Howling Banshees @300pts: 8HB+Exarch w/ Executioner. Wave Serpent (135pts) w/ t-l bright lance, SS.
-Howling Banshees @117pts: 5 HB+Exarch w/ Executioner.
-Fire Dragons @102pts: 6 Fire Dragons
-Fire Dragons @102pts: 6 Fire Dragons

===HEAVY SUPPORT===
Falcon @190pts: Starcannon, Holo, SS
Falcon @190pts: Starcannon, Holo, SS
Falcon @190pts: Starcannon, Holo, SS

Total 1651pts...

I now have 99pts left over, I'm not sure what to do with them, any suggestions ?

Ummmmm. . .

Vyper w/ CTM and Starcannon (95 points)?


Seems like the no-brainer to me.

Make sure you give those Farseers a SPistol too (so they get the extra attack in close combat).


That would leave you two points under and pretty much done.

Hmm, should have thought of that.

Aren't Witchblades 2hand weapons ?

Nope, they aren't listed either way in the codex.

Hell, they aren't even listed at all in the codex (and the rules for them in the rulebook give no info regarding how many hands it takes to use one).

No one has ever given me a fuss about using them as a single-handed weapon, so I would go ahead and spend the one point to get Shuriken Pistols and you can always not use the extra attack if someone has an issue with it.

Cool, thanks for all your help.
Unless anyone can think of something groundbreaking that needs to be changed this is how my list will be until the codex comes out.

Put the shuriken cannons on those falcons. The more shots those things have the better, and the more expensive they are the better.

But Longshot, why is it better to make your falcons more expensive by giving them more shots?

The answer is twofold!

1) You make your uber-hard vehicle more threatening and make people waste more shots on it.

2) Your uber-hard vehicle is worth more points when you score with it (hurray)

I like the banshees in serpents. But with a Biel-Tan list, I'd strongly suggest mixing your aspects up even more - it'll get you more fluffy hugs from your bunny hugging comp toting opponents.

2 squads of banshees, 2 of fire dragons (only 5! They've got 4+ saves, not worth buying extra - taking 6 is going to make people just as annoyed as if you take 5), an infiltrating squad of scorpions, and an Avatar instead of that second Farseer will make your list not only more potent but friendlier at the same time. Consider maybe another vyper instead of the avatar - whatever you do, I wouldn't bother taking 2 hqs in this list. Farseers aren't that special in the Librarian age, that I would take two of them in 1750 pts.

There are only three choices as to what guys you put outside of vehicles in the Eldar army. Warp spiders, Scorpions, and concealed guardians.

Walking banshees are big giant fat nono.

Why should I take out the Farseers ? Then my HBs will just die....

Banshees would still die if you let them reroll their 5+ save 2 or 3 times. They're t3 and their save is ignored by bolterfire.

Banshees have a 4+ save...

Wow, my memory sucks. Still, 4+ is not all that amazing with T3.

Ask fire warriors, they'll tell you all about it. Heavy bolters, whirlwinds, heavy flamers, assault cannons, and so forth.

The re-rolled armor save isn't so much for shooting as it is against close combat attacks (where Banshees want to be anyway).

Yeah, they'll still get pulped by power weapons/fists (assuming they don't kill them first) but the damage caused by regular attacks will be cut in half, which is a pretty big leap in survivability.

Also, the 4+ re-rollable save makes them doubly survivable against basic weapons rapid firing (like bolters) in case they accidentally are left outside of combat.

Sure the fortune re-roll doesn't make the Banshee invulnerable, but it certainly makes them much tougher.

having seen the fortune stuff a lot, I'm just not sure it's worth it on banshees. I do see the point, as it makes them a lot more survivable vs marines.

generally what happens when I run into banshees is they kill a squad, are left in the open and then die to shooting. An attached farseer isn't going to change that. (10 banshees will kill almost an entire squad of marines on the charge). one of the many, many reasons I like scorpions more.

Most successful folks I see with banshees have a couple small squads and use them as anti-terminator/anti-command-squad missiles and don't invest too much in protecting them as they're expendable.

Unless I roll very well I shouldn't kill more than about 6-7 marines on the charge, I'll just have to hope that I don't manage to wipe them out in one go. Otherwise yes, standing in the open will suck. But again Fortune will help me there, just got to watch out for Heavy Bolters

All you have to do is learn to set up your charges well. If a friendly unit is within 4" of the unit you want to charge use your fleet to get around the enemy unit to a position that, if the target enemy unit is wiped out or falls back in combat you can consolidate into another unit (1" of base distance + 3" of consolidate or a good roll on the massacre D6" roll if you wipe them out).

Also, generally, if you fleet around to the back of the unit you are charging and they fall back you stand a much better chance of being able to catch them again with your consolidate move than if you simply charge the front of the enemy unit.


Lastly, if there are no enemy unit nearby (within 6") besides the one you want to charge then learn to set your charges up so that the 6" assault move will only end up engaging a few models from the enemy unit. This way you can keep the enemy unit above 50% casualties and not outnumber them too badly on that first round. Of course, then you're also losing the Banshee's first strike ability and the extra attack for the charge, so it can be a dangerous gambit.

umm, Longshot unless I've missed a very recent rules update ALL aspect warriors have 4+ saves..

and to the original poster I'd switch out a farseer for an Avatar, he's a bit slower with loss of fleet but they're tough and if he's within 12" of any close combat that your units are involved in their fearless and get +1 combat resolution

Scorpions are 3+, as are warp spiders.

and to the original poster I'd switch out a farseer for an Avatar, he's a bit slower with loss of fleet but they're tough and if he's within 12" of any close combat that your units are involved in their fearless and get +1 combat resolution

I think that is a poor idea because it splits up his army. Right now EVERYTHING he has can move fast. All of it. By adding a 2nd element at a much slower speed (and one that starts off the board in Escalation too) it really messes with the overall synergy of the army.

as much as I love the 80pt T6 wonder, having rethought it I tend to agree. also, the avatar is supposedly getting majorly altered in the codex which is out in a few months. i wouldn't bother investing the 30 bucks and painting one nicely just to have to take it out and change your play in a few months.