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Hi. I recently got some british africa miniatures from a friend moving out of the crountry, and I wondered if this could be a good time to join the Flames of War community.

I have some books from the frist edition, and I guess the best match for the minis is the old Desert Rats supplement. What is the V3 equivalent? "Hellfire and back", from the online store, seems to be the sourcebook for africa front, but I would like to be sure before purchasing it. I ordered a compact A5 game manual from a FLGS, but I guess I need the scenario and army list book.

What I think I have is as follows:
· A british rifle company box. I reckon it has around 12 medium bases and a handful of command/mortar/PIAT bases Also there are some six additional medium bases and some smaller ones, which I guess is maybe a third platoon?
· A Royal Horse Artillery Battery with 4 artillery pieces and a lot of trucks.
· 4 6pdr portees
· 5 Sherman tanks. No guess what model it is.
· 3 Churchill tanks. Again no guess which model.

Is that somehow usable as a base for an british army? What books and minis should I be aiming to purchase? I don't really have an idea what kind of army I want, but I tend to enjoy gunline armies in games like 40k, so the whole rifle company + artillery seems nice.

Sorry if this is a bit vague but as you can see I'm kind of lost here.

As a heads up, Flames of War is updating to V4 soon, and the first era that will be reworked will be mid war, which is where your Africa soldiers come in. Just a heads up before you invest a lot of money into books.

As for the army, with no idea of points costs, what specific lists the brits get, etc. it sounds like a solid all comers infantry company. Usually you want a solid variety of weapons and equipment and you've got most of your tools there.

Rifle companies are nice because they mostly defend, unless against another infantry company or a fortified list. So you wont be charging an enemy tank line for example. Just keep in mind you'll need tools like tanks that are mobile so you have ways to respond to breakthroughs. 6pdrs will make a good ambush unit as well.

From the sound of it, other than books you have most of what you need to play a decent list right off the bat.

I play British in FoW in multiple eras, you have a good base.

You'll want either some AT gun teams, the 6pdrs or 17pdrs, or grab some Achilles if you're playing late war.

This will give you some long ranged firepower to deal with German heavies.

A mortar platoon will also help, although British arty is good despite being underpowered in V3. You might want to try planes, although they're unpredictable.

Well, thats quite an encouraging answer! I guess the situation is better than expected then

I don't plan on purchasing many books but I planned getting the mini rulebook with one of these campaign books in order to have an army list with stats and points costs. I don't think that should be higher than 40 euros.

When is that V4 supposed to come? Is there some kind of ETA or just a rumour? If it's coming in a year or more I have no problem getting some few books until then.

BTW, my minis are resin/lead oldschool battlefront minis and specifically the churchill tanks are a hell to glue. The tracks keep detaching from the resin frame. Any advice on keeping them usable?

I would follow the above advice and hold off until the new version comes out.

I mostly play late war myself, so have little in the way of reference to this era, but luckily for you, I still have my old Version 2 Afrika supplement (1942-43) so I can give you a rough army list/points costs as it were based on what you have.

Rifle Company (Confident Veteran)

Company HQ 30 points

2 Rifle Platoons 300 points (I haven'r added things like PIATs etc. This is a rough list)

Anti-tank platoon: 4 6pdr portees 195 points (you'll need a jeep for the HQ section)

Tank platoon: 3 Churchill tanks 370 points

Tank platoon: 3 Sherman Tanks 345 points

For a rough total of 1250 points

Note: I haven't been too specific, as there is a rule about publishing detailed rules/army lists on dakka.

Hope that helps.

I certainly helps a lot. Thank you very much for that!

I was reading http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/Briefings/Mid-war/MidWarBritishAfrica.pdf and I'm unsure how updated it is. Specially, It seemed like I was only able to deploy my Churchills in a Motor Company. I take that the army list on the link is outdated?

Is the points total to aim 1500? I think I read that somewhere...

The Version III approved stamp means it's good.
The point depends on the guys you will play with 1500 is quite usual.

"Hellfire and Back" is the Early War Africa book. Because you have Shermans, you DO NOT want that book.

Unfortunately, both of the Mid-War books are currently out of print. Both books were written for v2, but it was generally acknowledged that they had issues with v3. Battlefront tried to figure out how best to go about fixing the lists in the books, and in the meantime let them go out of print. When v4 goes live next year, Mid-War is going to be reissued in a fully v4 compatible format.

While Battlefront was still working on making the Mid-War books compatible with v3, they released a few lists on-line for players to evaluate. As a result, the list that you linked is actually as up to date as anything you'll find for Mid-War.

Prometheo wrote:
I certainly helps a lot. Thank you very much for that!

I was reading http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/Briefings/Mid-war/MidWarBritishAfrica.pdf and I'm unsure how updated it is. Specially, It seemed like I was only able to deploy my Churchills in a Motor Company. I take that the army list on the link is outdated?

Is the points total to aim 1500? I think I read that somewhere...

Bear in mind that the book I used was Version 2, so I've no idea what a version 3 list looks like.

If you want my advice, stick to Late war - proper tanks, not this Front Armour 6 nonsense

Now this is a fine and healthy community. Great help, guys!

If I want to play mid/late war with infantry britain i guess ill have to go to the europe books then right? It's a pity, I prefer Lybian sand dioramas, but grass and mud has its charm I guess.

What is the name of the Africa book for V2? Maybe I can find something around on ebay.

Prometheo wrote:
Now this is a fine and healthy community. Great help, guys!

If I want to play mid/late war with infantry britain i guess ill have to go to the europe books then right? It's a pity, I prefer Lybian sand dioramas, but grass and mud has its charm I guess.

What is the name of the Africa book for V2? Maybe I can find something around on ebay.

The book I used in an earlier post is Afrika (1942-1943) which also covers the invasion of Sicily and Italy.

I have no idea what book you need for Africa in 1941 or other theaters such as Greece and Crete.

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=2737

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=2933

Prometheo wrote:
Hi. I recently got some british africa miniatures from a friend moving out of the crountry, and I wondered if this could be a good time to join the Flames of War community.

Sounds like a good start on a British Motor or Rifle company.

What is the V3 equivalent? "Hellfire and back", from the online store, seems to be the sourcebook for africa front, but I would like to be sure before purchasing it. I ordered a compact A5 game manual from a FLGS, but I guess I need the scenario and army list book.

Most of the MW British in North Africa lists are in the North Africa supplement. Unfortunaly, I think this is OOP although you may still be able to buy an electronic copy of the book. The North Africa lists are also all available in the FOW online army building tool (Forces of War).

· A british rifle company box. I reckon it has around 12 medium bases and a handful of command/mortar/PIAT bases Also there are some six additional medium bases and some smaller ones, which I guess is maybe a third platoon?

Each Rifle Platoon should be 4-6 medium stands, plus 1-3 small stands (depending on if you take 2 or 2 squads, and if you take any of the optional support teams)

· A Royal Horse Artillery Battery with 4 artillery pieces and a lot of trucks.

I consider this a must for a British infantry company, In fact it would be worthwhile getting four more guns for the full 8-gun battery, which offers some benefits.

· 4 6pdr portees

Works well enough against MW Pz III and IV tanks, but if your opponent bring any Tigers or you play non-historical opponents like the Russians you will struggle with these. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of choice in British MW lists although some of them do include the 17/25 pdr which has a better chance against Tigers but costs a lot more.

· 5 Sherman tanks. No guess what model it is.
· 3 Churchill tanks. Again no guess which model.

Generally, these are in different lists (Sherman as support in Motor Company lists and Churchill in Rifle Company lists) but both are worthwhile. I personally try to field two platoons of tanks if I field any (2x3 Shermans or 2x3 Churchills).

What books and minis should I be aiming to purchase?

I'd see about picking up a platoon of medium mortars. I find it very handy to have to indirect fire units when I play infantry, so that one can bombard while the other drops smoke. Some kind of recom (carriers or armoured cars) are useful in removing "gone to ground" from an enemy unit, making it easier to shoot or bombard.

I don't really have an idea what kind of army I want, but I tend to enjoy gunline armies in games like 40k, so the whole rifle company + artillery seems nice.

Confident Veteran infantry once dug in and gone to ground can be pretty tough in defensive missions, while the tanks give you a mobile force if you do end up attacking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I have no idea what book you need for Africa in 1941 or other theaters such as Greece and Crete.

Hellfire and Back is the one for EW British in Africa,

Once again, amazing help. I cannot thank you guys enough.

As others have said, v4 is coming out next year and is redoing the mid-war lists which would be most appropriate for the models you have. That said, the infantry and artillery can be used for Early War as well though the infantry and the guns may not work for late war mediterranean/Italy. Ok, this is not entirely accurate. They can be used if you don't mind that their uniforms are not correct.

Now with what you've got, you should have the following:
Company HQ - 2 small bases with 3 guys on it. Typically the Company Commander is a guy with a cane, 1 small base with 2 guys? (AT Rifle or PIAT)
3x Rifle Platoons - 1 small base 2 3 guys (command stand), 6 medium bases, 1 small base with 2 guys (light mortar), 1 small base with 2 guys (AT Rifle or PIAT)

The Royal Horse Battery should be 4 large bases each with a 25 pdr gun. 1 medium base for the staff team, 1 small base with 2 guys as the observer, 2 small bases with 3 guys for the battery and troop command teams.

For the Shermans look at the turret. If it has a long gun and stowage behind the turret, it's a Firefly which is not usable in North Africa. If it has a short gun (likely), it should be usable. That said, British Mid-war tank units have a max size of 3 tanks and you don't want to field any smaller units.

Prometheo wrote:
Hi. I recently got some british africa miniatures from a friend moving out of the crountry, and I wondered if this could be a good time to join the Flames of War community.

I have some books from the frist edition, and I guess the best match for the minis is the old Desert Rats supplement. What is the V3 equivalent? "Hellfire and back", from the online store, seems to be the sourcebook for africa front, but I would like to be sure before purchasing it. I ordered a compact A5 game manual from a FLGS, but I guess I need the scenario and army list book.

What I think I have is as follows:
· A british rifle company box. I reckon it has around 12 medium bases and a handful of command/mortar/PIAT bases Also there are some six additional medium bases and some smaller ones, which I guess is maybe a third platoon?
· A Royal Horse Artillery Battery with 4 artillery pieces and a lot of trucks.
· 4 6pdr portees
· 5 Sherman tanks. No guess what model it is.
· 3 Churchill tanks. Again no guess which model.

Is that somehow usable as a base for an british army? What books and minis should I be aiming to purchase? I don't really have an idea what kind of army I want, but I tend to enjoy gunline armies in games like 40k, so the whole rifle company + artillery seems nice.

Sorry if this is a bit vague but as you can see I'm kind of lost here.

cannonfodr wrote:
As others have said, v4 is coming out next year and is redoing the mid-war lists which would be most appropriate for the models you have. That said, the infantry and artillery can be used for Early War as well though the infantry and the guns may not work for late war mediterranean/Italy. Ok, this is not entirely accurate. They can be used if you don't mind that their uniforms are not correct.

One thing to be aware of for the MW revision coming next year. Unlike fantasy and scifi games, there is unlikely to be any sort of wholesale changes in the army lists. A British Rifle Company or a British Armoured Squadron is still going to have the same organization and use the same miniatures. There will be changes in point costs (rumor is they are changing from a 1500 point system to a 100 point system), and the special rules may well change, however.

Thank you very much again for the comments. It seems like I inherited a pretty much complete army then!

My only worry is that Churchill tanks seem to be a little bit difficult to fit in some of the versions of the army lists I've been browsing. Some have them, some haven't (or require me to go motorized).

As others have said, Mid war Africa is getting an update in a few months, so I would go ahead and just use the free Fow Blogspot lists that are available online. They are not officially supported in any way, and there are some errors and/or missing some recent updates. They are just a hobbyist who has copied the books into a digital format, and usable until you can get newer official lists.
http://fowlists.blogspot.com/2012/03/north-africa.html

If you do want something official, the Digital Forces lists are fairly cheap, if just getting a single book or list or two.
https://forces.flamesofwar.com/

Also, welcome to the wonderful addiction, I mean world, of FoW! Brit early and mid war Africa are my go to armies. If you were interested in early war, I would recommend some of the PSC early war A9/A10 cruiser tanks. Zvezda also makes some cheap A13 MkII cruisers in plastic. For midwar, PSC does plastic Shermans and Churchills, and Battlefront will be releasing some plastic Lees/Grants here soon. I haven't found any proper early war plastic Stuarts yet, but hoping that either PSC or Battlefront comes out with them soon. In the meantime, Zvezda makes a midwar Stuart sans sand skirt.

Prometheo wrote:
My only worry is that Churchill tanks seem to be a little bit difficult to fit in some of the versions of the army lists I've been browsing. Some have them, some haven't (or require me to go motorized).

Churchill tanks were considered "infantry tanks" by the British, so generally most of the lists that they can be taken in are foot infantry lists. There are one or two "infantry tank company" lists, but the general consensus seems to be that the Churchill works better in an Infantry list than in a Tank list (there are rules differences between Infantry, Mechanized (mostly armoured cars) and Tank companies in the game that influence this).

The Rifle Company (1st Army) (Tunisia) from the North Africa books is a nice choice for fielding MW Churchill tanks.

Amazing advice. Thank you one more time!

I guess it's time to clasify the little lead guys and start painting them. Let's see if I can find some local group who plays this game...