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Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa






New England

So I do not own it, but I have taken a gander at some discussion on the interwebs and the general consensus seems to be, "Aw man, this book is disappointing. Hobbit SBG units are the same, if not more, undercosted and bloated with special rules and stats. At least Laketown Survivors is kinda cool with their 6+ heroes and special rule that they have access to now... But it looks like any dwarf factions that are not Iron Hills Warriors are obsolete in the face of Defense 8, bodyguard, spear+shield, foot troops supported by goat-riders."

What are your thoughts and opinions?

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Da Kommizzar wrote:
So I do not own it, but I have taken a gander at some discussion on the interwebs and the general consensus seems to be, "Aw man, this book is disappointing. Hobbit SBG units are the same, if not more, undercosted and bloated with special rules and stats. At least Laketown Survivors is kinda cool with their 6+ heroes and special rule that they have access to now... But it looks like any dwarf factions that are not Iron Hills Warriors are obsolete in the face of Defense 8, bodyguard, spear+shield, foot troops supported by goat-riders."

What are your thoughts and opinions?

Codex creep comes to the SBG?

I don't have the book yet, either, but this fills me with dread. It may mean that they plan to mess with all the old LOTR lists too, so they can make the old army books unusable and force players to buy "super-buffed" new books.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa






New England

They already hinted at revisiting the old armies, to fix some things that the Brits had brought up, as well as the rulebook "Middle-Earth SBG" update to clarify rules. The old army update is not supposed to be for a year or so, ME SBG comes out in the summer.

I think that it isn't a case of codex creep, just unfulfilled promises and laziness on the Hobbit Faction Balance front.

Adam Troke has seemed sincere and in his appearance of "Middle Earth World Cup", he commented on how certain units like Druadan are FAR undercosted for what they have. I still trust him since he participates in non-gw SBG events alongside GBHL and what not, I am just a little disappointed in the hobbit range still.

   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Da Kommizzar wrote:
So I do not own it, but I have taken a gander at some discussion on the interwebs and the general consensus seems to be, "Aw man, this book is disappointing. Hobbit SBG units are the same, if not more, undercosted and bloated with special rules and stats. At least Laketown Survivors is kinda cool with their 6+ heroes and special rule that they have access to now... But it looks like any dwarf factions that are not Iron Hills Warriors are obsolete in the face of Defense 8, bodyguard, spear+shield, foot troops supported by goat-riders."

What are your thoughts and opinions?


Where have you heard all that? As far as I've seen it's been mostly nothing but praise. A few nice fluffy rules and upgrades. No bloat at all.

Iron Hills are good, but extremely expensive points wise. If you go whole hog with them, you're going to suffer like elves and simply get drowned in opposing bodies. And they suffer the usual high defence problems. Magic, monsters, faster cavalry and war machines. Plus all their heroes (who are worth it) are extremely expensive points wise.
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

 Da Kommizzar wrote:
So I do not own it, but I have taken a gander at some discussion on the interwebs and the general consensus seems to be, "Aw man, this book is disappointing. Hobbit SBG units are the same, if not more, undercosted and bloated with special rules and stats. At least Laketown Survivors is kinda cool with their 6+ heroes and special rule that they have access to now... But it looks like any dwarf factions that are not Iron Hills Warriors are obsolete in the face of Defense 8, bodyguard, spear+shield, foot troops supported by goat-riders."

What are your thoughts and opinions?


Where have you heard this? The overwhelming opinion of the GBHL FB group - aka the center of SBG activity in the universe - is that it's fantastic, fixes tons of loopholes and problems, and adds in units that were missing.

The overpowered units like Megolas are gone, and factions that were unplayable before such as Dale have been made playable.

Actually, I haven't seen a negative review in like perhaps 30 or so that I've seen or read. The biggest complaint was a lack of updated Elrond, and the fact that Dol Guldur orcs weren't separated from Gundabad orcs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/09 18:19:35


"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa






New England

The community on OneRing has not ignored the fact that the Hobbit Range was said to have been nerfed to be in line with the LOTR range, but instead they got more powerful.

So, I do not know who to believe. People who are still super-hyped up on the product and might be blind to faults due to just having a new book for once, people who listen to them, people who wanted specific things and might just be crying, people who listen to those people. It is good to hear that people are giving it good reviews. I have not seen anything but existences of video reviews, not that I been looking hard during production/tech week, and I haven't desired to sit down and listen to a video lately. Looking at the different opinions, some praises are obvious such as "they added units that were missing". Well, yeah, they never released anything for the third movie and that was the first intention of this book because they lost funding/motivation before they could during the first opportunity. But some are nice like the fixing of loopholes.

I do not have a facebook, what loopholes and problems were fixed?

In Summary: The feeling I got was that nothing substantial changed that wasn't 100% obvious to happen such as 3rd movie profiles and errata.

This feeling, of course, coming from the idea that all of the Hobbit movie armies are beefcakes compared to those of the LOTR armies due to bloated stats like randomly high fight values.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/12/10 05:13:41


   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

I don't really frequent OneRing much - but the general consensus from GBHL has been very positive, especially from the tournament scene who lobbied hard to get broken units fixed (Alfrid, Megolas), which have been, and to make certain armies viable (Lake-town, Dale), which have been.

Of course one of the big changes was actually making the units and armies match the movies - a luxury GW didn't have as they didn't have access to the films during development for the initial releases.

Plus the new stuff like Iron Hills have the current "new shiny army!" syndrome, but I've seen some pretty devastating losses with them on FB due to them being a very low model count elite army - hard to play against foes that are more numerous, or, of course, monsters, who like to fling around infantry or easily Rend them open no matter the Defense value.

The GBHL podcasts are pretty good places to start https://www.facebook.com/GBHL-Podcast-YouTube-Channel-1564361030442416/?fref=nf

part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3VqEdKhzs8
part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvsvsr02uA0

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in gb
Black Captain of Carn Dûm





Were there be dragons....

Now that the Iron Hill Dwarves have access to the full range of toys in the books there going to be able to stand on their own two feet rather then relying on Allies. Crossbows for instance are going to be a massive help dealing with monster issues.

"As a customer, I'd really like to like GW, but they seem to hate me." - Ouze
"All politicians are upperclass idiots"
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Da Kommizzar wrote:
The community on OneRing has not ignored the fact that the Hobbit Range was said to have been nerfed to be in line with the LOTR range, but instead they got more powerful.

So, I do not know who to believe. People who are still super-hyped up on the product and might be blind to faults due to just having a new book for once, people who listen to them, people who wanted specific things and might just be crying, people who listen to those people. It is good to hear that people are giving it good reviews. I have not seen anything but existences of video reviews, not that I been looking hard during production/tech week, and I haven't desired to sit down and listen to a video lately. Looking at the different opinions, some praises are obvious such as "they added units that were missing". Well, yeah, they never released anything for the third movie and that was the first intention of this book because they lost funding/motivation before they could during the first opportunity. But some are nice like the fixing of loopholes.

I do not have a facebook, what loopholes and problems were fixed?

In Summary: The feeling I got was that nothing substantial changed that wasn't 100% obvious to happen such as 3rd movie profiles and errata.

This feeling, of course, coming from the idea that all of the Hobbit movie armies are beefcakes compared to those of the LOTR armies due to bloated stats like randomly high fight values.


None of the core rules have been touched, as that will be dealt with in the new rulebook next year. In terms of bloated stats, there's no such thing. I actually did a comparison last night of a few heroes compared to the source book and if anything the hobbit heroes are overcosted in comparison.

Dain is powerful, but stupidly expensive. As in costs more than a full warband when fully kitted out. You'll never see him in proper competetive play.
An Iron Hills captain is the same cost as Gimli or 20 points more than a regular captain (and has exactly the same stat line) and has a couple of very situational special rules. You can give a regular dwarf captain a shield and he'll still be 15 points cheaper than an Iron Hills one.

The ballista is expensive again and in my opinion inferior to the Uruk hai one. The uruk one has the capacitiy to infilict a lot more damage for a cheaper price.

The chariot is expensive, if you upgrade it almost prohibitively so. Especially if you stick the heroes on there. The bolt thrower is interesting, but has a limited range of fire making it somewhat unreliable.

Goat riders are interesting, but are 2" slower than regular cavalry, meaning they are still going to be out maneuvered.

And crossbows suffer the usual movement problem the uruk hai have. But Iron Hills don't have a character like Vrasku to fall back on.

All in all, they're an expensive, high defence elite army. They suffer in that they are easily out maneuvered, out numbered and when you break their shield wall, they will start crumbling very quickly.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





So is this book needed to play? I have the rules from the goblin town starter. And I take it from reading that there will be a rules revamp in the summer? So if I buy the kingdoms of men book for my mt army, I should be fine?

 
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

 Cptskillet wrote:
So is this book needed to play? I have the rules from the goblin town starter. And I take it from reading that there will be a rules revamp in the summer? So if I buy the kingdoms of men book for my mt army, I should be fine?


It's needed to play any of the armies that are in that sourcebook, or if you want to continue the campaign that is in the Goblin Town starter. Otherwise you don't need it!

The rules revamp will just be sixth edition. Some cleanup and a rebranding into Middle Earth SBG. There's been talk of the other army books being revamped as well but I would think that's at least a year away before any of them are touched.

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Ok good to know. I'm just gonna continue my minds tirith army just wanted to be sure is all!

 
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

 Cptskillet wrote:
Ok good to know. I'm just gonna continue my minds tirith army just wanted to be sure is all!


Oh yeah you started the Minas Tirith army! Whatcha got in it so far? Any pics of progress?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/23 12:51:28


"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





The command set and a box of warriors. Just got them assembled.

 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





Florida

Any word on when the book will restock? Wish they had done a digital version....

I play:
40K: Daemons, Tau
AoS: Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch
Warmachine: Convergence of Cyriss
Infinity: Haqqislam, Tohaa
Malifaux: Bayou
Star Wars Legion: Republic & Separatists
MESBG: Far Harad, Misty Mountains 
   
 
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