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Hello everyone, I've creeped on dakka for a couple years now and finally decided to join the community, so hello! that's not what this post is about though. Recently I've brushed the dust off my battletech stuff and I'm working with a group of fairly new players to the game. I played it a decent bit myself but my understanding of the lore etc is limited. We want to run kanon/lore friendly campaigns and I've been having difficulty finding specific details thus, this post!

1) Is it common or uncommon for duplicate mechs in a lance or no? for example 2 trebuchets and 2 catapults? or 4 hunchbacks?
2) How "intermingled" are mechs within merc units? for example a merc unit based out of steiner space having ravens/panthers/dragons etc.
3) Are custom loadout mechs common in battletech? is it more of a merc thing or house thing if so?
4) what are "iconic" mechs of houses. I understand certain mechs are mostly made in specific worlds/houses but when going up against say Davion, what would you assume to see? please correct me on any of the following from what I've been able to put together for this

Liao: Raven/Catapult/blackjack/vindicator
Marik: Awesome/Hunchback/Spider/Hermes1,2/Cicada/trebuchet/quickdraw/Guillotine/orion
Steiner: Zeus/Goliath/Banshee/Commando/Valkyrie
Draconis: Dragon/Panther/Jenner/Phoenix hawk
Davion: Jaegermech/dervish/enforcer/centurion/Atlas
Rasalhague: ?

Were trying to stay true to 3025 btw. Thank you to everyone in advance for the insight!
Also anyone around the Winchester,Va - Hagerstown,MD area feel free to drop me a msg for games!

Rasalhague is still part of the Draconis Combine in 3025. While there are rebellious elements, they don't get independence until prior to the War of 3039 so they'll generally use mechs common to House Kurita.

1. If you're looking at the 3025 era, it should be ok to have some of the more common designs/variants duplicated within a lance. Especially for house units. In the Warrior: En Garde, a Capellan March training unit at the start of the book was almost exclusive all Stingers and they get ambushed by a bunch of Cicadas. A Kurita unit towards the end of the book is mostly equipped with Panthers.

2. Merc units and even house units stationed along a border would likely have some mechs salvaged from the bordering state as that is a more reliable way to replace losses than getting a fresh out of the factory replacement. Things are on the brink of turning around, but the SLDF memory core recovered by the Gray Death Legion on Helm hasn't been fully circulated or analyzed yet.

3. Custom loadouts are usually simple swaps and looks to be about as common as just leaving the damaged component in place until a suitable replacement can be found if it is not too vital. Replacing an existing damaged weapon with a similar type or with extra armor/heat sinks. Again, it's a field expedient solution so you're usually not customizing to a pilot's preference, but with what the unit was able to salvage.

4. Here are the ones I can think of based off what I can remember about their primary manufacturer:

Capellan Confederation/Liao: Urbanmech, Raven, Cicada, Black Jack, Centurion, Vindicator, Catapult, Cataphract, Charger
Draconis Combine/Kurita: Jenner, Panther, Dragon/Grand Dragon, Victor, Atlas
Federated Suns/Davion: Javelin, Valkyrie, Hatchetman, Enforcer, Dervish, Jagermech, Rifleman, Victor, Atlas
Free Worlds League/Marik: Assassin, Trebuchet, Thunderbolt, Ostsol, Orion, Goliath, Awesome, Stalker
Lyran Commonwealth/Steiner: Commando, Firestarter, Hatchetman, Griffin, Zeus, Stalker, Banshee, Atlas
General: Stinger, Wasp, Locust

naxium wrote:
1) Is it common or uncommon for duplicate mechs in a lance or no? for example 2 trebuchets and 2 catapults? or 4 hunchbacks?

You don't see a lot of that in the few canon units described at that level of detail, but there is nothing in the background or the rules that would prevent this. IMO it actually makes sense and I do that quite a bit in my own attempts at creating canon units.

2) How "intermingled" are mechs within merc units? for example a merc unit based out of steiner space having ravens/panthers/dragons etc.

You have a fair amount of flexibility in this. When I put together a pirate or merc list, I generally try to choose the majority of the mechs from those common to the major power(s) in their area of operation, with a few "exotic" designs thrown in for variety.

3) Are custom loadout mechs common in battletech? is it more of a merc thing or house thing if so?

This really depends on your own tastes and those of your gaming group. Some people customize every mech in their list, others (like me) will only field official designs and variants. Generally, I would not expect anyone to complain if you modified a couple of mechs in your list, especially if it was reasonably close swaps in terms of size and weight.

4) what are "iconic" mechs of houses. I understand certain mechs are mostly made in specific worlds/houses but when going up against say Davion, what would you assume to see? please correct me on any of the following from what I've been able to put together for this

Off the top of my head, it looks like you have captured many of the iconic mechs from the five main factions. There was someone on the BattleTech forums who put together a spreadsheet of the RAT (random assignment tables) for 3025 which would give you a good idea of the more common mechs of each faction if you can track it down.

Thank you both very much for clarifying everything for me, I really appreciate it! I try my best to scour sarna and other resources but I seem to have a more difficult time finding the fluff related specifics on a large portion of the game.

I'd second Sarna,

Almost every aspect of the the Battletech universe is explored there and it's not too difficult to navigate.

If you want to find where a given mech originated and was common, you can just enter that mech's name into the Sarna search engine and you'll get information almost as (sometimes more) detailed as the the Technical readouts including origination and common use.

Lastly, I'd suggest getting a couple of the Sourcebooks regarding 3025 "Succession Wars" era. Alot of the info you want is in those books. TRO 3039 is a good start for the common vehicles and I'm sure that someone more knowledgable than me could suggest the 2 or 3 top books to give you the best books for that era.

For novels, check out the following if they're still available:
Gray Death Legion Saga by William H Keith (Decision at Thunder Rift, Mercenary's Star, Price of Glory) - This covers the formation of the Gray Death Legion and their recovery of the Star League memory core from Helm. Provides a very good feel for what it is like for a struggling Merc unit.
Warrior Trilogy by Michael A Stackpole (Warrior: En Garde, Warrior: Riposte, Warrior: Coupe) - This covers the period immediately after and during the 4th Succession War.
Wolves on the Border by Robert Charrette - Covers Wolf's Dragoon's employment with House Kurita immediately before the 4th Succession War.
Heir to the Dragon by Robert Charrette - Theodore Kurita's rise to power. Covers the War of 3039.

Unfortunately, my knowledge of sourcebooks goes back to 2nd/3rd edition. I'm not sure if Catalyst reprinted them.
Mercenary's Handbook, NAIS Military Atlas of the 4th Succession War volumes 1 & 2, Wolf's Dragoons, Tales of the Black Widow, Cranston Snord's Irregulars, the Gray Death Legion, and the house books (House Steiner, House Marik, House Davion, House Kurita and House Liao)

I'm missing the Galtor Campaign and the Fox's Teeth (tales of McKinnon's Raiders).

Awesome thank you guys so much! I can never have enough resources for reference or just inspiration etc! not to derail my own thread but after going through my models I've found one I haven't been able to identify. Google has failed me and so has both iron wind metals and camospecs. I don't suppose anyone here happens to know what this big guy is i attached?? hes as big as a metal atlas, RT and LT appear to be missile ports, has a missile pod on his left shoulder, looks like he's got med or sm lasers on his arms, not sure what the big gun is on the right arm, The cockpit is at the top center where the head fin/wing connects?

The shape looked vaguely similar to a custom 3025 era mech called the Titan. I checked against Sarna and while there isn't mention of the Titan, there is a Titan II which fits the bill.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Titan_II

I'm going to shut up now because I'm starting to scare myself with all of this random trivia.

Excerpt from Battletechnology Magazine:
http://www.geocities.ws/jymset/BT_Titan.html

naxium wrote:
Hello everyone, I've creeped on dakka for a couple years now and finally decided to join the community, so hello! that's not what this post is about though. Recently I've brushed the dust off my battletech stuff and I'm working with a group of fairly new players to the game. I played it a decent bit myself but my understanding of the lore etc is limited. We want to run kanon/lore friendly campaigns and I've been having difficulty finding specific details thus, this post!

Welcome to Dakka.
However also introduce yourself on the battletech forums.

naxium wrote:

1) Is it common or uncommon for duplicate mechs in a lance or no? for example 2 trebuchets and 2 catapults? or 4 hunchbacks?

Not common but it did happen.
- Locusts often operate in pairs.
- UrbanMechs are unique and really only work in whole lances or compaies of Urbies. They are cheaper than most tanks.
- Stingers are in 3025 a means of replacing a missing mech in any formation. They were by far the most common design in 3025 most of the scenario pack companies including Rolling Thunder had a Stinger or two. The only logical reason for them to be in an assault company is as a temporary casualty replacement while thefaction sources something better.
- Capellans love using Vindicators as one size fits all, and as a replacement mech for any role except fast scout.

naxium wrote:

2) How "intermingled" are mechs within merc units? for example a merc unit based out of steiner space having ravens/panthers/dragons etc.

Very. Mercs rarely get the opportunity to buy mechs, nearly allnew mechs go straight into the faction military. Mercs they either inherit mechs for recover them, as they recover them from their enemies you can expect to see OpFor designs a bit. So mercs long in the employ of the Magitry of Canopus will not have many opportunitie to get Panthers or Dragons, oddly enough neither will Combine employed mercs. Davoin and Steiner epmployeed mercs however will often have those designs from salvage.

naxium wrote:

3) Are custom loadout mechs common in battletech? is it more of a merc thing or house thing if so?

Very uncommon, any significant change will need to come as a factory refit. You can customise a mech component within its class, such as by resizing or removing and LRM rack or autocannon. But you couldnt replace an autocannon with somethign radically different like a large laser or PPC. A lot of this has to do with software limitations and heat and power channeling.
That being said 3025 was the era of maximised salvage. Your ride might be a Shadow Hawk and it might preform like any other, but if its seen enough service it is likely to be cobbled together from bits of two or three Shadow Hawks, and might have the hip of a Wolverine, the autocannon of a Hermes II and the laser and sensor suite of a Stinger.

naxium wrote:

4) what are "iconic" mechs of houses. I understand certain mechs are mostly made in specific worlds/houses but when going up against say Davion, what would you assume to see? please correct me on any of the following from what I've been able to put together for this

This was answered satisfactorily by cannonfodr, nothing to add.

What the previous posters have said is all pretty good advice IMO.

In addition, if you can track it down the Mechwarrior 2nd Edition RPG book had some pretty handy tables for random initial Mech assignments suitable mostly for 3025 era mechs (There were some, such as the Kuritan Wolftrap which were 3050 tech IIRC, but there are pretty few and you could always substitute or re-roll the result) and randomly determining unit origins, plus other tables for random events such as contracts, raids, new recruits, etc. Just try not to be tempted to abuse it to max out your pilot's skill levels before they start. Piloting 5 Gunnery 4 should be the standard across the board, with maybe a P4/G3 for veteran Lance or Company commanders.

It also has a decent and accessible overview of the history and state of the factions of the Inner Sphere as of 3052.

The best way to play the game IMO but especially if you're running a Mercenary unit is to keep track of your unit's members and what mechs you salvage or lose and allow your unit to grow or shrink naturally over time. It does involve a bit of record keeping, although how much to a degree is up to you. I've kept track of spare parts and ammunition reserves with my battletech units and occasionally have had to withdraw certain units when I ran out of ammunition for them, but there's not necessarily any obligation on you to be quite so thorough. The good thing with this sort of approach though is that even if you don't go to such lengths, it does generally stop you from cherry picking the really good mechs, since you can only field what you can salvage and repair. Tanks and AFVs are generally a different matter though and these are more widely available on the open market.

In general, in my experience you will probably find that you'll be salvaging more heavies and assaults than lights and mediums. I've found by far the most repairable of battlefield salvage are decapitated mechs and since especially in 3025 you're likely to need at least two hits to score a head-kill (AC-20 being the only weapon that can single shot kill most mechs with a head hit), it's far more likely that a light or medium will have suffered other critical damage which will mean that it's not economically viable or practical to repair them. YMMV though.

As an aside here, I do appreciate that you've said you want to stick to 3025 (Nothing wrong with that, to many 3025 is Battletech at its best), but post 3050 and the Clan Invasion does open things up a bit in terms of introducing more variety, but it definitely becomes more deadly for the mechwarriors and for an Inner Sphere mercenary unit salvaging and maintaining Clan mechs is fairly difficult. I generally find that around 80% of the Clan salvage my units recover is scrapped to keep the remainder operational.

Unfortunately last I checked most of the old ROC novels were long out of print and both difficult and expensive to find, although I believe that there were intentions to reprint some of them. IIRC they were mostly those related to the Clan invasion and beyond. I don't personally rate the Grey Death Legion books that highly personally, I thought Stackpole's books were much better. The fiction was very hit-and-miss IMO with some really good tales and some really dire ones (Far Country, I'm looking at you...)

I know I'm new here but feel free to PM if there's anything I might be able to help with further.

Edit: IIRC the CRD-3R Crusader was a fairly standard Steiner Heavy, at least in the original TRO 3025 although there were variants throughout the Successor States. The Victor was also a common Davion Assault.

I think the only novel that predated the Gray Death Legion ones was the Sword and the Dagger. There are definite consistency issues in those early books, but they do capture a desperate, feel where everything is cobbled together with what you managed to salvage from your previous fight and is just barely combat capable. If I remember, Carlyle's Commandos was just a lance of mechs and they were the garrison for a planet. In later series, you had small unit actions, but they were always part of a battle with whole battalions and regiments involved.

Far Country. I don't even know where to begin about that side story. It should be ignored.

Look for the 1st edition Mercenary's Handbook and Field Manual: Mercenaries. I seem to recall them both being good for starting a Merc unit. The Merc's Handbook had a ledger to track expenses and the Field Manual had the rules for creating a Merc unit.

cannonfodr wrote:
I think the only novel that predated the Gray Death Legion ones was the Sword and the Dagger. There are definite consistency issues in those early books, but they do capture a desperate, feel where everything is cobbled together with what you managed to salvage from your previous fight and is just barely combat capable.

This is part of the problem I have with the GDL books, it just felt far too easy how they just happened to find and recover enough kit to expand themselves from a badly beaten up company to a combined arms regiment following the recovery of the Helm memory core. IIRC they basically went from struggling little start-up to one of the larger mercenary units in the Inner Sphere almost overnight. The only vaguely comparable example I can think of in the fluff is the Kell Hounds expansion, although that was from one regiment to two so didn't seem quite as dramatic and wasn't as a result of them just discovering all that kit. That's by the end of the third book in the series IIRC and I'm not sure it really reflects that desperate feel all that well that they suddenly got all this pristine Star League era kit which would have been in theory at least technologically superior to what even the Successor State militaries were fielding at that time, true they had to fight for it but given the GDL's plot armour that felt like a bit of a foregone conclusion.

Beyond that, the GDL books felt very samey and predictable to me and the Legion itself is just portrayed as far too heroic and noble IMO. There's no shades of grey (If you'll pardon the pun), they're always very definitely the good guys.

The Sword and the Dagger was IMO a much better book, I think it's a shame that the author didn't return to write any more Battletech fiction although I gather from what Stackpole's said, FASA had issues when it came to reliably paying its authors so it's maybe understandable.

If I remember, Carlyle's Commandos was just a lance of mechs and they were the garrison for a planet. In later series, you had small unit actions, but they were always part of a battle with whole battalions and regiments involved.

I believe you're correct, although the Commandos were wiped out almost straight away. The GDL itself was formed from IMO a decidedly implausible series of events, crucially including Carlyle on foot and by himself forcing the surrender of a single Locust from which the whole rest of the Legion basically grew with an Inferno SRM launcher. I know there were reasons in the book but they just didn't seem at all convincing to me, especially as in the game a single infantryman with an Inferno SRM launcher has absolutely no chance of even affecting the Locust in those circumstances let alone damaging it beyond burning off a bit of paint. Stackpole's books have some issues with fluff inconsistencies, but for the most part I can read them and imagine almost all of the engagementts plausibly happening on the game board (Up to a point, IMO they read like narrative battle reports until he needs to come up with a way for a main character to survive).

But it does highlight some of the inconsistencies in the early fluff as IIRC back then a single medium or light lance was usually portrayed as a fairly potent garrison force, but it quite quickly changed so that any force that weak would be easily steamrollered by even a light raiding force and multi-battalion or even multi-regimental operations became fairly common.

I personally think the Black Thorns novels are a better read and give better insight into a struggling mercenary unit, albeit set in the post Tukayyid universe of C.3052, it's just a shame the Black Thorns were basically killed in an administrative error and to be fair here, there are issues with the Black Thorns too, in game Rose's Charger would get curb-stomped by a Clan Masakari in short order and he would stand practically no chance of killing and salvaging it.

That said AFAIK a lot of the fluff has been tidied up somewhat (For example, the events in the Battletech cartoon from the 1990s are now regarded as an in-universe holovid show rather than a direct part of the Battletech canon) and some things have been retconned or are ignored now (Example again of LAMs being written out of the game and abandoned as a concept after the factory was destroyed in the Clan invasion). It's not perfect of course, but it is better.

Far Country. I don't even know where to begin about that side story. It should be ignored.

Hah! Agreed. In fact I think that for the most part it's been perhaps not actively retconned, but is largely ignored overall and I believe isn't regarded as canon.

Look for the 1st edition Mercenary's Handbook and Field Manual: Mercenaries. I seem to recall them both being good for starting a Merc unit. The Merc's Handbook had a ledger to track expenses and the Field Manual had the rules for creating a Merc unit.

There was also a sourcebook which IIRC was called Field Manual: The Periphery which is worth checking out and has rules for various types of temporary/emergency repairs and low-tech equipment.

simonr1978 wrote:

In addition, if you can track it down the Mechwarrior 2nd Edition RPG book had some pretty handy tables for random initial Mech assignments suitable mostly for 3025 era mechs (There were some, such as the Kuritan Wolftrap which were 3050 tech IIRC, but there are pretty few and you could always substitute or re-roll the result) and randomly determining unit origins, plus other tables for random events such as contracts, raids, new recruits, etc. Just try not to be tempted to abuse it to max out your pilot's skill levels before they start. Piloting 5 Gunnery 4 should be the standard across the board, with maybe a P4/G3 for veteran Lance or Company commanders.

Random mech tables.
These are for people with lots of mechs in their collection, also the tables get edited and changed a lot, mostly due to unseen. You can't roll a Stinger on most tables though frankly for 3025 it should be common. I would recommend you ignore mech tables entirely. At best they are a shortlist to choose some of your mechs from.

Agreed on 4/5 skill across the board, it makes

simonr1978 wrote:

It also has a decent and accessible overview of the history and state of the factions of the Inner Sphere as of 3052.

Even better the Mercenary Handbook, 1st edition.

simonr1978 wrote:

The best way to play the game IMO but especially if you're running a Mercenary unit is to keep track of your unit's members and what mechs you salvage or lose and allow your unit to grow or shrink naturally over time. It does involve a bit of record keeping, although how much to a degree is up to you. I've kept track of spare parts and ammunition reserves with my battletech units and occasionally have had to withdraw certain units when I ran out of ammunition for them, but there's not necessarily any obligation on you to be quite so thorough. The good thing with this sort of approach though is that even if you don't go to such lengths, it does generally stop you from cherry picking the really good mechs, since you can only field what you can salvage and repair. Tanks and AFVs are generally a different matter though and these are more widely available on the open market.

The best way to balance mech choices is to agree to take the rough with the smooth. Battletech included a points system, but it is formulaic and therefore open to abuse. I find BV gives some credence to minimaxing while picking a force to tonnage and self policing does not. Besides some of a crap mechs are the most characterful, and get a lot of love. Its quite unlike 40K in that regards.

simonr1978 wrote:

In general, in my experience you will probably find that you'll be salvaging more heavies and assaults than lights and mediums. I've found by far the most repairable of battlefield salvage are decapitated mechs and since especially in 3025 you're likely to need at least two hits to score a head-kill (AC-20 being the only weapon that can single shot kill most mechs with a head hit), it's far more likely that a light or medium will have suffered other critical damage which will mean that it's not economically viable or practical to repair them. YMMV though.

Salvage everything, for lights you end up needing more wrecks to make one mech, as a Locust wreck often doesnt leave a lot of salvage. Esp if it get hits by a 10 point weapon.

The random mech tables are also good for people just starting out on a campaign though, since if you haven't bought any mechs yet it gives you a decent enough basis for what to order. Regarding the Unseen I thought IWM re-sculpted them although they were IMO inferior to the originals, although I stand ready to be corrected.

Regarding salvage, just to clarify I agree with salvaging everything, what I meant although perhaps I didn't phrase it well was that you'll probably end up repairing and fielding far more of the mechs at the heavier end of the spectrum than the lighter. There's no reason of course not to salvage a wrecked Locust, but in my experience the fate of most salvaged lights is probably going to be that they'll get broken up for spares and armour patches, since getting for example a heavy or assault 'mech back to being 100% combat ready is generally going to be a far better choice than not doing so and instead holding on to that gutted Locust on the off chance you might salvage enough spare parts to warrant repairing it.

I truly forget just how deep the fluff and expansive the history is for this game. I think that's one of the things about it that always keeps me coming back, no matter how much I play or read theres always a " hey I never knew that!" moment. I really do appreciate all the input etc from everyone!

As far as how to run it since I'm kind of the unspoken coordinater/dm I was planning on keeping it fairly simple for my own sake. PLEASE feel free to critique or offer suggestions on my decisions. I'm all for a more thorough experience as long as it enhance the gameplay instead of hindering/slowing it down or overcomplicating things. Since the majority of the players just have Anniversary editions and only the materials supplied within I was going to begin with everyone using basic mechs that they have. One lance with a total of 180-200tons. Lance commander being a 3gun4pilot and the rest of the lance being 4gun5pilots. Wasn't entirely certain how to tackle starting funds for additional ammo, parts etc. out of the 6 players (myself not included) 3 want to go the merc route and the other 3 want to go the house route. My intention was to start them off as untested small garrison units for unessential planets. One wants Kurita one Steiner and the other cant decided between Marik or Davion. I'm still throwing around ideas for the mercs, considered just giving them all contracts under Lyrans for a similar engagement or operations to keep it simple/easier on me and expanding from there but I'm not sold on it yet. I'm probably going to do a watered down version of scrap and funds for simplicity sake. Maybe undamaged parts of mechs and set cbills for each contract/mission. Please Hit me with your input!

Question for myself, Are there any novels or sources specifically on the Northwind Highlanders? like how they got their start, rise to fame overall history etc? I always enjoyed the Wolfs dragoons, wolf in exile and Kel hounds fluff but don't remember much on the Highlanders.

simonr1978 wrote:

cannonfodr wrote:
I think the only novel that predated the Gray Death Legion ones was the Sword and the Dagger. There are definite consistency issues in those early books, but they do capture a desperate, feel where everything is cobbled together with what you managed to salvage from your previous fight and is just barely combat capable.

This is part of the problem I have with the GDL books, it just felt far too easy how they just happened to find and recover enough kit to expand themselves from a badly beaten up company to a combined arms regiment following the recovery of the Helm memory core. IIRC they basically went from struggling little start-up to one of the larger mercenary units in the Inner Sphere almost overnight. The only vaguely comparable example I can think of in the fluff is the Kell Hounds expansion, although that was from one regiment to two so didn't seem quite as dramatic and wasn't as a result of them just discovering all that kit. That's by the end of the third book in the series IIRC and I'm not sure it really reflects that desperate feel all that well that they suddenly got all this pristine Star League era kit which would have been in theory at least technologically superior to what even the Successor State militaries were fielding at that time, true they had to fight for it but given the GDL's plot armour that felt like a bit of a foregone conclusion.

Beyond that, the GDL books felt very samey and predictable to me and the Legion itself is just portrayed as far too heroic and noble IMO. There's no shades of grey (If you'll pardon the pun), they're always very definitely the good guys.

The Sword and the Dagger was IMO a much better book, I think it's a shame that the author didn't return to write any more Battletech fiction although I gather from what Stackpole's said, FASA had issues when it came to reliably paying its authors so it's maybe understandable.

If I remember, Carlyle's Commandos was just a lance of mechs and they were the garrison for a planet. In later series, you had small unit actions, but they were always part of a battle with whole battalions and regiments involved.

I believe you're correct, although the Commandos were wiped out almost straight away. The GDL itself was formed from IMO a decidedly implausible series of events, crucially including Carlyle on foot and by himself forcing the surrender of a single Locust from which the whole rest of the Legion basically grew with an Inferno SRM launcher. I know there were reasons in the book but they just didn't seem at all convincing to me, especially as in the game a single infantryman with an Inferno SRM launcher has absolutely no chance of even affecting the Locust in those circumstances let alone damaging it beyond burning off a bit of paint. Stackpole's books have some issues with fluff inconsistencies, but for the most part I can read them and imagine almost all of the engagementts plausibly happening on the game board (Up to a point, IMO they read like narrative battle reports until he needs to come up with a way for a main character to survive).

But it does highlight some of the inconsistencies in the early fluff as IIRC back then a single medium or light lance was usually portrayed as a fairly potent garrison force, but it quite quickly changed so that any force that weak would be easily steamrollered by even a light raiding force and multi-battalion or even multi-regimental operations became fairly common.

I personally think the Black Thorns novels are a better read and give better insight into a struggling mercenary unit, albeit set in the post Tukayyid universe of C.3052, it's just a shame the Black Thorns were basically killed in an administrative error and to be fair here, there are issues with the Black Thorns too, in game Rose's Charger would get curb-stomped by a Clan Masakari in short order and he would stand practically no chance of killing and salvaging it.

That said AFAIK a lot of the fluff has been tidied up somewhat (For example, the events in the Battletech cartoon from the 1990s are now regarded as an in-universe holovid show rather than a direct part of the Battletech canon) and some things have been retconned or are ignored now (Example again of LAMs being written out of the game and abandoned as a concept after the factory was destroyed in the Clan invasion). It's not perfect of course, but it is better.

Far Country. I don't even know where to begin about that side story. It should be ignored.

Hah! Agreed. In fact I think that for the most part it's been perhaps not actively retconned, but is largely ignored overall and I believe isn't regarded as canon.

Look for the 1st edition Mercenary's Handbook and Field Manual: Mercenaries. I seem to recall them both being good for starting a Merc unit. The Merc's Handbook had a ledger to track expenses and the Field Manual had the rules for creating a Merc unit.

There was also a sourcebook which IIRC was called Field Manual: The Periphery which is worth checking out and has rules for various types of temporary/emergency repairs and low-tech equipment.

Hah, oh wow I had to go read up on the Black Thorns thing on Sarna and ouch.

Re:LAMs: I think they reintroduced them in the Jihad, and in the Interstellar Operations book

Highlander Gambit and Impetus of War by Blaine Lee Pardoe are two novels about the Northwind Highlanders, although set in the 3050+ era. I read Highlander Gambit years ago and it seemed pretty good back then, I haven't read Impetus of War though.

Regarding starting resources, Mechwarrior 1st and 2nd Edition had tables to determine that, depending on house and status.

simonr1978 wrote:


Beyond that, the GDL books felt very samey and predictable to me and the Legion itself is just portrayed as far too heroic and noble IMO. There's no shades of grey (If you'll pardon the pun), they're always very definitely the good guys.

Shades of grey is the new cliche. Writers have to add tones to evil or good characters to make them more believable, and that is becoming as two dimensional as writing moustache twirlers.
Grayson Carlyle is a fairly convincing character, some people adopt LG alignment because it sits better for them and has hidden advantages. LG is not always recognised though and if it is then the reaction is normally to exploit rather than support. Eve if it is self serving support from Duke Ricol.

GRRM believes strongly in shades of grey, but his most memorable characters arent shades of grey. Tyrion Lannister was better written before a heavy shade of grey was added to his character on what appears to be a point of writers doctrine. Jon Snow, Robb Stark and Eddard Stark are all white hats, Tyrian Lannister had a white hat, and probably still does, and is now just confusing and continues on the love the reader has stored up for him so far. Joffrey and Ramsay Snow are black hats through and through yet the writer always talks about making all his character grey. Fact is his grey ones mostly disappear behind the ones who are not. Daenarys excepted.

Batttletech writing doesnt have many true black hats as warfare is factional. But heroic fiction tends towards the extremes and when people like Theodore Kurita became point of view characters the whole faction gradually reluctantly shifted alignment. Evne so Battletech has the advantage that an out and out evil faction has leaders who act like white hats to each other, or have functional white hates in faction and the total cannont be summed up as grey. Jade Falcons come to mind strongly here.
Credit where credit is due, Stackpole can write shades of grey characters reasonably well, mostly white hats with well concealed flaws who occassionally cross the line when nobody is looking. Most of his heroes are carbon copies of this mentality including Justin Allard and his son and Phelan Kell. While functional grey hats the most notable characteristic linking them is an overbearing smugness. I hate them.

naxium wrote:
Wasn't entirely certain how to tackle starting funds for additional ammo, parts etc. out of the 6 players (myself not included) 3 want to go the merc route and the other 3 want to go the house route. My intention was to start them off as untested small garrison units for unessential planets. One wants Kurita one Steiner and the other cant decided between Marik or Davion. I'm still throwing around ideas for the mercs, considered just giving them all contracts under Lyrans for a similar engagement or operations to keep it simple/easier on me and expanding from there but I'm not sold on it yet. I'm probably going to do a watered down version of scrap and funds for simplicity sake. Maybe undamaged parts of mechs and set cbills for each contract/mission. Please Hit me with your input!

Going from the MW2 RPG the starting funds for the forces you've mentioned would be 4 (Steiner Mercs, Kurita and Davion) or 5 (Steiner and Marik) D6x 5,000 C-Bills per lance each.

The same book mentions that a Mercenary lance can expect somewhere between 300,000 - 800,000 C-Bills per mission and running costs of around 5,000 C-Bills per mech per month (Accomodation, rations, routine maintenance, etc). It doesn't mention what the equivilent for a house unit would be though.

To simplify things and keep the book-keeping down, you could go down the route assigning a flat rate fee to repair superficial damage and re-arm each mech, charge for replacement parts as is listed, if a whole body segment is destroyed you could just charge a 1/7th of the total value of the mech to replace it. Rather than getting players or yourself to keep records of their unit's stocks of spares, you could just assume that so long as the money's available, the parts are repaired/replaced.

I'd suggest allowing larger starting forces, 2 or 3 Lances, even if you're only intending on using a single Lance per game. Otherwise, with a single Lance per player one bad game and their unit could be completely wiped out. If they have a pool of 12 mechs to chose from, then at least if one lance is wiped out it still gives them a chance to rebuild and recover. Also, if they only have 4 mechs and 1 or 2 are destroyed or captured then they can't even field a full lance and at this size game against a full strength lance, being understrength by even a single mech is likely to severely handicap the smaller unit and they're unlikely to recover their strength.

Are you intending on introduced new mechs into the campaign? If this is 3025 then as there is no CASE protection the overall number of mechs available is going to dwindle quite quickly, ammunition explosions pre-3050 tech levels usually permanently destroy mechs and you're not going to be left with much salvageable. Similarly you may need to consider introducing new pilots to the campaign at some stage, since some will inevitably get killed in action at some stage.

One last thing to consider is how you're going to handle PoWs. Will players ransom captured mechwarriors back to their old units, keep them captive until the end of the campaign or even execute prisoners?

simonr1978 wrote:
I'd suggest allowing larger starting forces, 2 or 3 Lances, even if you're only intending on using a single Lance per game. Otherwise, with a single Lance per player one bad game and their unit could be completely wiped out. If they have a pool of 12 mechs to chose from, then at least if one lance is wiped out it still gives them a chance to rebuild and recover. Also, if they only have 4 mechs and 1 or 2 are destroyed or captured then they can't even field a full lance and at this size game against a full strength lance, being understrength by even a single mech is likely to severely handicap the smaller unit and they're unlikely to recover their strength.

This would not be a bad thing. Many of the post 3rd SSW units were Lances released from a Company. Many Merc Contracts were set up so that if they were a Company, they would parcel out their Lances for quick, "easy" work.

The 4th SSW is when things started to ramp up to Company-sized involvement, and then 3039 which started seeing Battalion leaders being more than administrative, even for House units. It was remarked by Victor Davion that the idea of sending even a full RCT to handle things was rare before the Clan invasion.

Speaking of which, if they want to be a combination of Merc, Steiner, and Kurita, and they don't want to end up against each other long, put them in a situation where the House units were setup by their Generals to fail, and so have to join up with the Mercs to survive post-event.

They would then take up contracts with Confederation, League, Federated, or even Comstar to avoid being near their former commanders. It could even culminate in 4th SSW operations which allows them to get revenge on those who betrayed them.

simonr1978 wrote:
One last thing to consider is how you're going to handle PoWs. Will players ransom captured mechwarriors back to their old units, keep them captive until the end of the campaign or even execute prisoners?

There's also the option to let them sign up with the unit, especially if their unit failed. Some nations do not treat those who fail and survive kindly. Kuritans are encouraged to commit suicide, and often do depending on their dedication to their bushido. Capellans can be executed or assassinated on a whim. Fedrats, Leaguers, and Lyrans are usually either dumped in to a dead end place, Dispossessed, or put in to no-win scenarios, if the local lord just doesn't have them assassinated.

simonr1978 wrote: Are you intending on introduced new mechs into the campaign? If this is 3025 then as there is no CASE protection the overall number of mechs available is going to dwindle quite quickly, ammunition explosions pre-3050 tech levels usually permanently destroy mechs and you're not going to be left with much salvageable. Similarly you may need to consider introducing new pilots to the campaign at some stage, since some will inevitably get killed in action at some stage.

One last thing to consider is how you're going to handle PoWs. Will players ransom captured mechwarriors back to their old units, keep them captive until the end of the campaign or even execute prisoners?

Thanks for bringing up the issues with restricting them to a lance only. I had decided that route for simplicities sake but I had never considered everything you mentioned which are all good points. I'll probably start them off with 2 lances and make salvaging mechs/resources much easier just for continuity of gameplay. that being said I don't want them to become desperately attached to a single mech instead of the characters piloting them.

If this ends up taking off We'll probably progress through 3039 and possibly up to 3050 depending on how interested everyone remains and how regularly we can play. As far as POWs I assume it'll be a case by case basis depending on the situation/mission etc. I like the idea of possibly assimilating them into the units opens up opportunity for other plot twists for everyone.

Charistoph wrote: Speaking of which, if they want to be a combination of Merc, Steiner, and Kurita, and they don't want to end up against each other long, put them in a situation where the House units were setup by their Generals to fail, and so have to join up with the Mercs to survive post-event.

They would then take up contracts with Confederation, League, Federated, or even Comstar to avoid being near their former commanders. It could even culminate in 4th SSW operations which allows them to get revenge on those who betrayed them.

I appreciate the suggestion! I really have been struggling with how to tie in multiple houses and merc units without having divisions or having to separate battles which could become a hassle quickly. Maybe with kurita I could put them in a situation where they get declared ronin and have to flee/join another unit. I could easily play the political gambit with our marik unit (he finally decided) and the steiner player would be easy enough to keep with the rest of the pack since they more often than not employ mercs. This have given me some direction with things I was getting hung up with, wheels are turning again lol.

naxium wrote:
I appreciate the suggestion! I really have been struggling with how to tie in multiple houses and merc units without having divisions or having to separate battles which could become a hassle quickly. Maybe with kurita I could put them in a situation where they get declared ronin and have to flee/join another unit. I could easily play the political gambit with our marik unit (he finally decided) and the steiner player would be easy enough to keep with the rest of the pack since they more often than not employ mercs. This have given me some direction with things I was getting hung up with, wheels are turning again lol.

No problem. It wasn't too hard to come up with if you are sufficiently familiar with the lore. This type of situation is almost a Battletech trope. It shows up in half the books (especially to Mercenary units), and is repeated numerous times throughout the background books (if I remember right, it has been a while).

It would also be possible to set up the Maril player as being "on lone" or "an observer" with a Kurita unit (or vice versa), as the Combine and League often allied to politically counter Steiner and Davion. The Steiner player could also be a special liaison to the mercenary team as well when things go really bad.

Of course, you could set up the Mercs to be on two sides, with the House players as liaisons and then they find out they were screwed by their generals, and off we go.

But that's assuming they want to end up together. You could also easily set it up that they end up counter-raiding each other to oblivion or subservience to the Home Store policies the Nations used to induct experienced units on the cheap.

naxium wrote:
I've found one I haven't been able to identify.

It is a Titan II TI-2P.

ERA: Jihad
Source: Technical Readout 3075
Tech Base: Clan
Weight: 100

You can find it at Iron Wind Metals

If you want a simpler way to keep track of a campaign, get a copy of the Chaos Campaign book. Lots of simplified rules for salvage, maintenance and things like that. Would be a good place to start, then decide just how crunchy you want to make your campaign.

 Dark Severance wrote:

naxium wrote:
I've found one I haven't been able to identify.

It is a Titan II TI-2P.

ERA: Jihad
Source: Technical Readout 3075
Tech Base: Clan
Weight: 100

You can find it at Iron Wind Metals

Thanks, I appreciate it!

Mattlov wrote: If you want a simpler way to keep track of a campaign, get a copy of the Chaos Campaign book. Lots of simplified rules for salvage, maintenance and things like that. Would be a good place to start, then decide just how crunchy you want to make your campaign.

Awesome I'll have to give that a look, tyvm!

So aside from me asking for help propping myself up with this battletech campaign, Would anyone here be interested in a lance composition critique/ ranking post? For example I would post several lance ideas I have and everyone post their opinions of it, speculate it purpose/roles, its strengths and weaknesses, how plausible it would be to see said lance in the Battletech universe during specified timelines etc? The one other seasoned player and myself toss around concepts like this constantly and its always nice to get others input/insight, opinions etc.

naxium wrote:

So aside from me asking for help propping myself up with this battletech campaign, Would anyone here be interested in a lance composition critique/ ranking post? For example I would post several lance ideas I have and everyone post their opinions of it, speculate it purpose/roles, its strengths and weaknesses, how plausible it would be to see said lance in the Battletech universe during specified timelines etc? The one other seasoned player and myself toss around concepts like this constantly and its always nice to get others input/insight, opinions etc.

Don't know about anyone else but I'd be up for this, if you still want it.

As I said in the PM, I'll check out anything you have questions about.

And if I don't know the answer, I can literally have direct communication to the people writing it and/or have written it.

Alright so here are a couple lance Ideas being tossed around so far by my players.

Marik player:
Awesome, Thug, Hunchback, Hermes2
Stalker, Catapult, Trebuchet, Hermes2

Kurita player:
Battlemaster, Grand dragon, Jenner, Panther
Jagermech, Quickdraw, Phoenix hawk, Whitworth

Steiner player:
Banshee, Zeus, Hunchback, Commando
King Crab, Hunchback, Enforcer, Clint

Merc players:
Guillotine, Grasshopper, Quickdraw, Spider

Archer, Whitworth (2), Trebuchet
Rifleman, Jagermech (2), Clint

Griffin, Phoenix Hawk, Vindicator (2)

There has been a couple discussions about crab, king crab and thugs. I was of the opinion those were primarily comstar pre clan but there could be some out there? so other than if these lances are fluff friendly for 3025 any other critiques opinions or just tidbits of knowledge to offer? I just want to say I truly appreciate everything from you all, the Dakka community has been a great guide and help!

All 3 mechs have variants that don't use lostech, so they could indeed still be found by 3025 (Thugs were mentioned as being rare, but still around and Crabs were directly reintroduced to the Draconis Combine in the 3030s).

First impressions based on the assumption that you're going the be using the more typical versions of the mechs concerned rather than the more unusual ones.

naxium wrote:
Alright so here are a couple lance Ideas being tossed around so far by my players.

Marik player:
Awesome, Thug, Hunchback, Hermes2
Stalker, Catapult, Trebuchet, Hermes2

I'm not too familiar with the Thug but this seems a reasonably good force, one thing that will limit it in urban or woodland combat is a lack of jumping mechs apart from the Catapult. This will limit manouevrability in such a situation.

Kurita player:
Battlemaster, Grand dragon, Jenner, Panther
Jagermech, Quickdraw, Phoenix hawk, Whitworth

Ok, but you've got two pretty weak mechs in the second lance there in the Jagermech and Quickdraw and the Grand Dragon isn't the most terrifying opponent, I'd suggest substituting out one or two of them at least for something more effective. The Phoenixhawk is always a good call Imo though and the Whitworth is good for light support duties.

Steiner player
Banshee, Zeus, Hunchback, Commando
King Crab, Hunchback, Enforcer, Clint

Again, not bad. The standard model Banshee is a bit light on firepower for its weight but the Steiner variant (BNC-3S iirc) whilst slower has better armament. As with the Marik player a lack of jumping mechs will hurt in woods or towns. The second lance in particular is pretty slow and short ranged, whilst it could do a lot of damage, they're probably going to have to spend most of the game trying to get in close enough to stand a chance of hitting. An Atlas may be a better choice for the Assault slot here as it's a bit more of an all-rounder.

Merc players:
Guillotine, Grasshopper, Quickdraw, Spider

Should be reasonably effective, although the Quickdraw is one of the weaker heavies in my experience and as there's nothing really stellar in this lance it may be worth considering swapping it for something a bit more effective.

Archer, Whitworth (2), Trebuchet

This is a decent support Lance if you're going to be playing 2 lances or more per side but by itself it's going to he overly reliant on LRMs and will be in real trouble if a more balanced opposing unit manages to get in close or it finds itself in a situation with limited los.

Rifleman, Jagermech (2), Clint

Whilst the Rifleman can be effective if used right, you've got three pretty weak mechs grouped into one lance there, they're just not likely to be putting out enough damage to he really effective against most of the other lances here Imo.

Griffin, Phoenix Hawk, Vindicator (2)

A good medium Lance Imo, you've got a decent mix of manouevrability and firepower.

There has been a couple discussions about crab, king crab and thugs. I was of the opinion those were primarily comstar pre clan but there could be some out there? so other than if these lances are fluff friendly for 3025 any other critiques opinions or just tidbits of knowledge to offer? I just want to say I truly appreciate everything from you all, the Dakka community has been a great guide and help!

It's possible, the Technical readouts are written from the point of view of Comstar intelligence reports, so just because they don't think that any are out there it's not completely impossible that the odd example or two have been discovered somewhere and just not come to Comstar's attention.

Overall (admittedly without checking) the Merc forces seem a bit underweight compared to the house forces and are likely to find themselves at a disadvantage Imo, maybe it's just the lack of Assaults giving that impression. In general, a lot of the mechs you've chosen are very reliant on projectile and missile weapons which are costly to keep supplied with ammunition. Missile mechs like the Catapult have a bit of a tendency to strip the armour from their targets and are usually best paired with something that has a bit more of a concentrated punch to it, a PPC or heavier AC carrying mech. The AC-5 and AC-2 are particularly inefficient weapons (low damage for high weight), the Jagermechs do have range but their damage is pretty poor compared to something like a Catapult, Archer or Crusader. Whilst it's perfectly in keeping with the background material to use Jagermechs and Quickdraws, I'd steer clear of having more than one per player really, otherwise they're likely to be outclassed by the better mechs on the table.

This is all just based on my personal opinions and experiences, others may disagree.