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I am a 40k and I came across this monstrosity:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls/Acastus-Knight-Porpyhrion.pdf

Now, as a 40k player, 4x S10 AP2 Large blast, twin-linked shots seems OP, especially when backed up by a Massive blast S6 AP4 weapon for infantry units and on an 8HP super heavy with a 4++.
Is this thing considered OP in the 30k universe or is it quite balanced?

Thanks.

For 500 points? He's not that bad. High Strength and Low AP pie plates aren't nearly as good as they used to be. Will he gut 20 man tactical squads? Absolutely. But then again, Forge World seems to love giving every army dozens of tools to murder tactical squads en masse so it's not that surprising. A Lightning with the AT missiles will feth him pretty bad.

Its kind of crap to be honest, its cool and all but its weapons are more towards killing massed infantry, power armour and termies and its invun is just a single face ion shield on a av14-13-12 chassis.

It's no more powerful per point than the other super-heavies that get used.

I would give it a "solid, but not fantastic" rating. There are so many things in the Heresy that could make this thing's life difficult that I would never call it OP. That said, I think it does what it does well enough to be quite good.

It is also adequately durable, though not exceptionally so for the price.

They probably upped the point cost just to be on the safe side.

If he makes the jump to 40k he might e a decent fill in for the awkward 500 point hole between 1500 and 2000. In 30k, he will be a decent Warhound replacement if you don't have the 200 or so points to get an actual Warhound.

He looks really cool though.

Though, if you had to choose only one Knight Titan to get from Forge World, I feel you would be better off with any of the others.

He looks really, really cool though.

 Crazyterran wrote:
He looks really, really cool though.

He really does. You could buy three other Knights for what he costs too - but he looks amazing.

 Crazyterran wrote:

Though, if you had to choose only one Knight Titan to get from Forge World, I feel you would be better off with any of the others.

Agreed. This Knight's role is to sit back and shoot stuff. It will fit very well in a Questoris Knights army, where all the others can handle the close range fighting.

He doesn't really fill a niche or unique spot in 30K. There are plenty of other choices that can fulfill similar roles. As a Lord of War Choice? Whew. Taking this guy over a Primarch? That would be a tough one. One over some of the other, already crowded Lord of War choices? Mmmm.

Money wise... it's about US$400, compared to an Imperial Knight Crusader at US$157. And the Crusader is significantly lower in points cost as well. A Warhound Titan's body is actually cheaper then this guy, but add in the weapons and it's a little more. I know which I would rather have on the table...

Rule of Cool says this guy will get played, because he does look kinda cool. He's not going to be a must take or be the cornerstone of any great lists though.

In all honesty, this thing is fairly priced for 30k in my opinion for what it does. But for god's sake I wish they would cut the point costs down on the baneblades. I'll just do a little comparison here between this thing and a Solar Auxilia baneblade, these are assuming basic costs.

Base point cost: 495 for Acastus, 30 points more for base baneblade
AV Values: 14/13/12 for both
Saves: ion shield 4++ for Acastus, No save for baneblade
Weapons: 4 72" demolisher cannon shots, 2 autocannons, and missile launcher on top for the Acastus. 1 actual demolisher cannon, 1 baneblade cannon, 1 autocannon, 1 TL HB for baneblade.
Melee attacks: 3 for Acastus, none for the baneblade
Stomps: Acastus gets these, baneblade doesn't.
BS: BS5 for Acastus (because reasons?), BS3 for baneblade.
HP: 8 for Acastus. 9 for baneblade.
Access to Armoured Ceramite: Acastus does not get, Baneblade gets access to.

Someone please explain to me how a base baneblade costs 30 points more when it's outdone in almost every conceivable measure by this walker. And don't tell me they fulfill different roles as they're both designed for the same exacty purpose, shootiness. Seems like even in 30k baneblades just keep becoming worse and worse with every new model FW releases.

Stock, I'd agree. The baneblade is outclassed.

Don't forget that the Porpyhrion will almost inevitably have a scion arbalester pilot, too - offering skyfire and tank hunters - because once you're paying 500 pounts you'll shell out for a decent pilot.

meanwhile in real terms the baneblade will just as inevitably have its sponsons and a pintle mount - throwing 3 more heavy bolters and two lascannons into the mix. Still not really a match but a very different beastie.

The baneblade does have a few tricks - I'm not convinced in a solar auxilia army, but in a militia army, the leadership reroll from superheavy command tank is bloody amazing, especially with artillery units which are vital to the army's firepower but cant have discipline masters.

in solar auxilia, it's the tank commander who makes the difference - again, if buying a baneblade, why wouldn't you pay a pittance for BS4 and the ability to overwatch with many, many sponsons....

oh - and an auxillia baneblade does have a 6++ invulnerable from explorator adaption. Not much, but in a 9 hull superheavy, every little adds up...

The facts is only a few point more than a knight crusader with a pair of rapid fire battle cannons and whirlwind missiles is the sticking point.

Its SOOOO much better than the crusader for all of 30ish points more

That Crusader loadout is 40k and Chaos / Renegade only, unless I'm missing something here.

The type of noble to stick into the Porphyrion.. I'm playing fluffy myself (though with this monster opponents will no doubt disagree! ) and was thinking of making it either an Arbalester (Tank Hunters is always welcome when you roll as crappy as me on armour penetration) or Preceptor, because using those guns to intercept would be hilarious.

As for the Solar Auxilia tank commander, don't forget access to one of the USR's listed, giving him Tank Hunters or Preferred Enemy (Infantry) on a vehicle that already does a considerate amount of damage only makes him all the better, especially if it's any chassis other than the Baneblade where you can swap out the sponson lascannons for Targeters (or just buy them for a flat fee if you're fielding a Stormhammer), because nothing is quite as pleasant as having a non-Astartes tank with BS5 all round.

The problem with the baneblade is thusly: with Sponsons, Armoured Ceramite, a pintle mount, and an Auxilia Tank commander, you are spending 675 points.

For 25 points more (just under 4% more) you get an Ordinatus Saggitar, who trades in a Demolisher, two lascannons, an autocannon, and four heavy bolters for three Volkite Culverins, and one blast of the same size as the Baneblade's cannon, but Str D AP1 and with Machine Destroyer, which is basically tank hunter for D weapons. You also get thicker armour, a 6++ that can be used anything, the ability to fight back in close combat with the Anbaric Claw, the ability to self repair with Blessed Autosimulacra, and the ridiculously amazing Ordinatus Dispersion Shield.

Oh, and it only takes up one LoW slot and not an HQ too like the Tank Commander.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and you get 55% more hull points too.

locarno24 wrote:
Don't forget that the Porpyhrion will almost inevitably have a scion arbalester pilot, too - offering skyfire and tank hunters - because once you're paying 500 pounts you'll shell out for a decent pilot.

Totally a tangent here, but....

Why does everyone want to go Arbalester? You choose to Skyfire that turn and you aren't firing your main guns that turn. The Helios upgrade makes more sense, since it has Skyfire and Interceptor, meaning you don't waste a turn trying to shoot down a plane with two Lascannons or Autocannons. Tank Hunter on S10 AP2 Ordnance weapons are kinda a waste, too.

To me, it screams either Seneschal (for the BS6 and 3++) or a Marshal, just so it is scoring and can sit back and blast stuff while camping an objective.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The problem with the baneblade is thusly: with Sponsons, Armoured Ceramite, a pintle mount, and an Auxilia Tank commander, you are spending 675 points.

For 25 points more (just under 4% more) you get an Ordinatus Saggitar, who trades in a Demolisher, two lascannons, an autocannon, and four heavy bolters for three Volkite Culverins, and one blast of the same size as the Baneblade's cannon, but Str D AP1 and with Machine Destroyer, which is basically tank hunter for D weapons. You also get thicker armour, a 6++ that can be used anything, the ability to fight back in close combat with the Anbaric Claw, the ability to self repair with Blessed Autosimulacra, and the ridiculously amazing Ordinatus Dispersion Shield.

Oh, and it only takes up one LoW slot and not an HQ too like the Tank Commander.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and you get 55% more hull points too.

Yeah but the Ordinatus is really OP. It's like saying that SM bikes are bad because scatterbikes are a thing.

Besides, actually facing an Ordinatus is a rare thing. My local group has both Baneblades and Titans (even a Warlord) but no Ordinatus.

Probably one of the coolest knights FW has come out with, IMO, but it is crazy expensive and really fills an anti-infantry role even with it's high strength/low ap weapons. Blasts in the front of a spartan from this will still only be s8 Little high out of my price range, unfortunately. I'd love to field one, though if for only a couple more bucks I could get a warhound? I'd save and get one of those lol

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The problem with the baneblade is thusly: with Sponsons, Armoured Ceramite, a pintle mount, and an Auxilia Tank commander, you are spending 675 points.

For 25 points more (just under 4% more) you get an Ordinatus Saggitar, who trades in a Demolisher, two lascannons, an autocannon, and four heavy bolters for three Volkite Culverins, and one blast of the same size as the Baneblade's cannon, but Str D AP1 and with Machine Destroyer, which is basically tank hunter for D weapons. You also get thicker armour, a 6++ that can be used anything, the ability to fight back in close combat with the Anbaric Claw, the ability to self repair with Blessed Autosimulacra, and the ridiculously amazing Ordinatus Dispersion Shield.

Oh, and it only takes up one LoW slot and not an HQ too like the Tank Commander.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and you get 55% more hull points too.

Yeah but the Ordinatus is really OP. It's like saying that SM bikes are bad because scatterbikes are a thing.

Besides, actually facing an Ordinatus is a rare thing. My local group has both Baneblades and Titans (even a Warlord) but no Ordinatus.

I own and routinely use 3 Ordinatus engines.

And I don't think they are that OP for the points. Arguably the Ulator is (I stress arguably) but the Saggitar isn't.

I am merely saying that for the points cost of a Baneblade kitted out, you could get an Ordinatus, and after dropping a Landspeeder you could get a Warhound.

Baneblades are awful.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The problem with the baneblade is thusly: with Sponsons, Armoured Ceramite, a pintle mount, and an Auxilia Tank commander, you are spending 675 points.

For 25 points more (just under 4% more) you get an Ordinatus Saggitar, who trades in a Demolisher, two lascannons, an autocannon, and four heavy bolters for three Volkite Culverins, and one blast of the same size as the Baneblade's cannon, but Str D AP1 and with Machine Destroyer, which is basically tank hunter for D weapons. You also get thicker armour, a 6++ that can be used anything, the ability to fight back in close combat with the Anbaric Claw, the ability to self repair with Blessed Autosimulacra, and the ridiculously amazing Ordinatus Dispersion Shield.

Oh, and it only takes up one LoW slot and not an HQ too like the Tank Commander.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and you get 55% more hull points too.

Yeah but the Ordinatus is really OP. It's like saying that SM bikes are bad because scatterbikes are a thing.

Besides, actually facing an Ordinatus is a rare thing. My local group has both Baneblades and Titans (even a Warlord) but no Ordinatus.

I own and routinely use 3 Ordinatus engines.

And I don't think they are that OP for the points. Arguably the Ulator is (I stress arguably) but the Saggitar isn't.

I am merely saying that for the points cost of a Baneblade kitted out, you could get an Ordinatus, and after dropping a Landspeeder you could get a Warhound.

Baneblades are awful.

Exactly how are you using three? The Ordo Reductor FoC has only two LoW slots and you would be stuck with Saggitars, which isn't a bad thing - they are nasty, but that is 1400pt right there. So, not exactly getting a balanced force at 3000pt that way, no matter how good the Ordinatus is (a shame they aren't tanks to count as scoring in the Ordo Reductor FoC!).

And you can't really use the Ulator outside of 4300pt games.

Unless, of course, you are using the narrative/fluffy Leviathan FoC, which isn't for anything resembling competitive play.

Because 30K has had a huge influx of 40K refugees who try to play 30K as 40K with Forge World models, and so they purchase three Ordo Reductors and call it "Unbound Army List" and then play that way against their 40K buddies who can't afford the fancy Forge World models.

People play the way they wanna play. It's just that sometimes, that game isn't the same game you, me, or anyone else plays, but if they are having fun, then all the power to them! Carry on, Player One!

I like the Leviathan FOC, and no, it isn't intended for competitive play.

My opponents like the army, and I don't play competitively.

And I don't know what Tamwulf is on about; I started 30k in Book 1 with the extremely limited Ordo Reductor list. I'm not some 40k refugee wishing for the glory days of Warhammer and trying to play 30k in a 40k style.

I like narrative, fluffy games, and so do my opponents. I leverage the Leviathan for all its worth towards that end, and I also have other troops to play games with that aren't in a Leviathan.

But I would say that my primary 30k army is my Centurio Ordinatus army, around which all of the fluff for my other armies is anchored.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I like the Leviathan FOC, and no, it isn't intended for competitive play.

My opponents like the army, and I don't play competitively.

And I don't know what Tamwulf is on about; I started 30k in Book 1 with the extremely limited Ordo Reductor list. I'm not some 40k refugee wishing for the glory days of Warhammer and trying to play 30k in a 40k style.

I like narrative, fluffy games, and so do my opponents. I leverage the Leviathan for all its worth towards that end, and I also have other troops to play games with that aren't in a Leviathan.

But I would say that my primary 30k army is my Centurio Ordinatus army, around which all of the fluff for my other armies is anchored.

Cool cool. Makes sense. I just always ask, because here (and elsewhere), rules get sometimes confused for 30k. Always trying to be as helpful as I can.

Also, hilarious that you run triple Ordinatus. That must make for some seriously awesome narrative games!

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I like the Leviathan FOC, and no, it isn't intended for competitive play.

My opponents like the army, and I don't play competitively.

And I don't know what Tamwulf is on about; I started 30k in Book 1 with the extremely limited Ordo Reductor list. I'm not some 40k refugee wishing for the glory days of Warhammer and trying to play 30k in a 40k style.

I like narrative, fluffy games, and so do my opponents. I leverage the Leviathan for all its worth towards that end, and I also have other troops to play games with that aren't in a Leviathan.

But I would say that my primary 30k army is my Centurio Ordinatus army, around which all of the fluff for my other armies is anchored.

Cool cool. Makes sense. I just always ask, because here (and elsewhere), rules get sometimes confused for 30k. Always trying to be as helpful as I can.

Also, hilarious that you run triple Ordinatus. That must make for some seriously awesome narrative games!

It does. Come early January I have a game scheduled against a Knight household who is trying to get revenge on my Archmagos for various perceived slights. Amusingly, Autek Mor killed my Archmagos Ordinator in a recent game and so I am trying to decide where to go from there with the fluff.

What is dead can never die?

Just tell everyone his brain had a unique Displacer Matrix and he was only MIA for as long as it took them to upload it into a new body!

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
What is dead can never die?

Just tell everyone his brain had a unique Displacer Matrix and he was only MIA for as long as it took them to upload it into a new body!

Lol, no. We use the death chart thing from HH4 to determine if a model removed as a casualty was slain, wounded, or whatever. He was actually slain. My Reductor magos took over for a bit but as also slain by loyalist Emperor's Children. My mechanicum are assuredly traitor, and the way I am thinking of going with it is to have the Centurio Ordinatus Galleass split from the Ordo Reductor Galleass - they were on their way to the Forge World Anchyche (the forge world that supplied them and was basically their homeworld) to find out what had happened to it (it was destroyed) but have been so beset on the way there that they don't know what's happening anymore. They let a traitor fleet past them without engaging (because they are only just now learning of the heresy) so Autek Mor was like "nO!" and came and murdered my Archmagos Ordinator who was nominally in charge. Power devolved to my Magos Reductor but now he is dead too so I am like "hmm... new powers rise." I am thinking of having a borderline-sane Malagran take over and swing them full traitor when they get to the destroyed Forge World, while the Ordinatus engine crews scramble to nominate a leader on their own vessel. Perhaps the ship's captain?

Depends. In Mechanicum/Knight Lists its okay, it would be a strong choice for Legions.

I'd say overall it's strong because Taghmata is the master race.

Not a fan of these rules. They reek of 40K power creep coming into the game, and that is not cool in my book.

 djones520 wrote:
Not a fan of these rules. They reek of 40K power creep coming into the game, and that is not cool in my book.

For 30k? Do elaborate.

Really? Compared to a turbolaser armed warhound, is it really that bad?