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2016/12/24 05:19:51
Subject: Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon : Starts June 17th, 11am EST
Re: Why All the Secrecy Around KS5?
Postby natetaylor » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:41 am
Glad you're all champing at the bit for KS5 info. We are super excited about it ourselves.
Thanks for your patience on info.
Honestly, the lack of information about KS5 is much less secrecy, and much more lack of time.
KS4 production has been intensely more involved than any previous project. We have over 260 pieces and a lot of them are very complex. And we have new materials in the mix. So I've been buried in near constant review, revision, improvement, and testing of all this stuff. This is on top of my full-time job. Oh yeah, and I had a new baby 4 months ago, so he's been a little demanding too.
The net result of all these factors is that other than developing initial mocks and sketches, I haven't had much bandwidth to start creating official teaser materials for KS5. So that's why you haven't seen anything yet.
Meanwhile, Stefan has had his head down in the clay, powering through a whole bunch of new sculpts for KS5. And he's been doing test builds for KS4. And has been remarkably disciplined about not leaking any KS5 photos onto facebook...
The good news is KS4 pieces are turning out even better than expected. We've made a ton of little improvements along the way and are thrilled to share the final product with you very soon. Some of these new additions are as follows:
- rubber pads under many of the pieces to avoid slippage
- metal hooks on the wall accessories for a firm grip and compatibility with non-castle sets
- felt pads inside the wall Platforms for a more snug fit
- a hook system for the gatehouse portcullis allowing it to be set at 4 different heights
- an easy-to-connect socket for the standing LED pieces to make it easier to swap them around
- metal pegs in most of the pole accessories for added durability
- rolling wheels in the mantlet & mangonel
- a wall-removal tool for prying a wall skin off the front of a spacer without removing anything stacked on top.
- we snuck a few extra pieces into some of the sets
- a working spring-release for the trapdoor in the gatehouse floor (it's awesome!)
On the KS5 front, the good news is we're further ahead of our sculpting schedule than ever before. By the end of the year we'll have about 100 clay masters in China ready for prototype casting (last year at this point we had none there). This means we'll have more time to prepare the KS page with more clear photos, videos, and info for new backers. And more time to do a variety of prototype builds and examples.
While we're on the topic of KS5, here's some official info to get you theorizing:
- The theme will be a return to the dungeon.
- The bulk of the pieces will be the old faithful DF shapes and sizes you're used to. - We'll be exploring some exciting new features in the dungeon, utilizing many of the innovations we've made over the past four years.
- Our goal is to keep the project as affordable as possible. Initial buy-in will be as cheap as we can make it, and the number of add-ones will be more manageable.
- Our total sculpts will be about half of last year so you won't have to spend a couple of grand to get a sample of everything. Of course we won't stop you if you want to spend a few grand to get a ton of everything...
- This KS will be the perfect chance for anyone who missed out on KS1 to get their own dungeons at KS prices. But there will also be more than enough cool stuff (add-ons and new core-sets) for backers who are drowning in KS1 dungeons already.
- We're working in a few mega packs since those have proven to be very popular in the last two projects.
- We'll launch in the spring as usual, but timing will be contingent on KS4 delivery. - Originally for this KS we wanted to do additions to all the Dwarvenite lines, but once we added up all the mold numbers we realized dungeons alone was more than enough to fill a single KS. That being said, maybe a few non-dungeon add-ons might sneak their way into the project...
Okay, is that enough to whet your appetite? We'll start some official teasers in the new year, probably "soon"...
Yeah, thank you for posting the teaser bits and background info.
I'm glad they're ahead of the game on prototypes and whatnot for potential builds. During pretty much every KS of theirs (but especially the last one), people simply would not shut up about 'omg but what does it build me'.
Don't get me wrong, it's entirely reasonable to want to make an informed choice when it comes to spending hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars on anything, but even when one could reasonably extrapolate at least roughly what would be there, demands for more builds (omg more builds!) never ceased.
Seems like they learned from that experience.
2016/12/24 18:11:31
Subject: Re:Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon (KS in the Spring)
No problem! Thanks to kodiakbear for maintaining the Reaper thread for this KS as well!
Re: A Suggestion for the Kickstarter #5
Postby Kryzsko » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:20 pm
Yeah, I got the impression they were going back to the old "scale". I think that is a mistake but you can't make everyone happy. I would like the new stuff to better work with KS3 and 4 stuff and to establishe one consistent scale. I get why they are going backwards but it is going backwards. So now they basically will continue to have two lines that are not easily compatible with each other nor with other companies that are making 1" scale stuff. So sewers will not work well with KS1 tiles or KS5 tiles.
Re: A Suggestion for the Kickstarter #5
Postby jchunick » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:28 pm
The camps are sitting around 50/50 on the scale issue so it simply won't be possible to please everyone. The KS5 scale is that of KS1, if that's not clear by the pic of the diagonal piece Stefan is sculpting with the KS1 dungeon tile in the foreground as reference.
I still think their caverns stuff was just amazing, but I realized it was actually Too modular for me lol. They've got their market figured out though and I'm sure this will do really well!
2016/12/25 14:32:33
Subject: Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon (KS in the Spring)
I may actually have to get in on this one. I liked the original Dwarvenite one (to complement my massive collection of their wonderful resin kits). The caves were useless to me (I own three cave sets), the houses were hugely disappointing to me (I have old tavern sets and wanted more dungeon-crawl layout stuff..not houses) and the castles were expensive and useless to me.
So, it's nice to see another more basic set. I was still secretly hoping they'd have more tavern bits (similar to the resin ones, not modular houses). We shall see. While I admit the Dwarvenite doesn't really touch the resin stuff for quality or detail (or size!)...it's nice to have both, and fleshing out my sets with basic floor pieces and basic walls is always helpful.
2016/12/25 14:39:41
Subject: Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon (KS in the Spring)
ced1106 wrote: Interesting -- how did you find the caverns to be too modular?
I only have the KS1 game tiles, so let me know!
I should probably say I would have found them all to be too modular I only got in on the caverns. I'm more of a wargamer, so had an idea of making a Zone Mortalis type board for a fantasy skirmish... but just didn't need the functionality of every tile being movable (and it ended up really expensive for doing even at a skirmish-game scale!). I can see it being just fantastic for RPGs, though
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/25 21:49:21
2016/12/25 15:24:58
Subject: Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon (KS in the Spring)
I agree with you RiTides...it can be way too modular. That's one of the reasons I vastly prefer the older resin stuff. There are large pieces (4x2, 6x6, etc.) as opposed to the nearly all 2x2 layout. Cavern pieces in the old sets were all 4x4 (so 1/4 of the number of pieces needed to set up a cavern). It's all well and good when you're wanting to do something really in-depth, etc.
It can take a good hour or two to set up a full 6x4 worth of dungeon bits. I only have one pledge from the first Dwarvenite --- all the rest of my collection is resin (including T-junctions, corners, curving hallways, four-way junctions etc.). It's much easier to build what I want using the resin components.
2016/12/26 02:05:21
Subject: Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon (KS in the Spring)
The Dwarvenite stuff is really right on par with what prices should be for what you get. It's not as nice as the older resin stuff they did, but it's a good bit cheaper.
2017/05/14 18:54:16
Subject: Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon (KS in the Spring)
ced1106 wrote: No problem! Thanks to kodiakbear for maintaining the Reaper thread for this KS as well!
Re: A Suggestion for the Kickstarter #5
Postby Kryzsko » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:20 pm
Yeah, I got the impression they were going back to the old "scale". I think that is a mistake but you can't make everyone happy. I would like the new stuff to better work with KS3 and 4 stuff and to establishe one consistent scale. I get why they are going backwards but it is going backwards. So now they basically will continue to have two lines that are not easily compatible with each other nor with other companies that are making 1" scale stuff. So sewers will not work well with KS1 tiles or KS5 tiles.
Re: A Suggestion for the Kickstarter #5
Postby jchunick » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:28 pm
The camps are sitting around 50/50 on the scale issue so it simply won't be possible to please everyone. The KS5 scale is that of KS1, if that's not clear by the pic of the diagonal piece Stefan is sculpting with the KS1 dungeon tile in the foreground as reference.
Whats the scale issue they're referring to? Is the new stuff not compatible for KS 1 and 2? I passed on towns and castles because they jacked up the price by not repeating pieces and kept dumping more and more niche stuff on.
2017/05/15 17:02:33
Subject: Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon (KS in the Spring)
I think this post from the reaper forums says it best
kodiakbear
Posted March 24, 2016 · Report post
Basically the answer is that for around 18 years Dwarven Forge sculptors (Stefan and a few other people) sculpted pieces without verifying that each piece had the exact same foot print. I am not just talking about from set to set but even piece to piece in the same set. Even as DF was being considered the gold standard of resin terrain by some gamers they were not producing a product that was in any way exact. That same lack of exact foot print is present in the game tiles (dungeon tiles) from KS1 and the cavern tiles from KS2. One of the passage pieces for dungeons that was made during KS2 is likely the best example of the worst adherence to exactness. So DF had been in business for years and had two wildly successful KS with Stefan, past crew and present crew all merrily producing a product that was not exact.
Some unknown person must have realized the KS3 items were going to need to be exact (or at least more exact) due to the vertical builds and made sure they were. Likely an engineer not an artist, perhaps a factory engineer. But who ever it was they did not stop to consider back ward compatibility to 18 years of accepted inaccuracy.
2017/05/15 17:19:43
Subject: Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon (KS in the Spring)
For the record, and from Stefan himself, the original inconsistencies were due to the nature of resin casting and how resin cures as it sets.
They sculpted as they always had, considering the allowances required for resin casts, for KS 1 and 2, in a new material.
This new material ("Dwarvanite") proved to have different properties than resin and allowed them to tighten their tolerances.
But, yes, backward compatibility, which is negligible (ymmv) was abandoned for truer and tighter tolerances.
"You never see toilets in the 41st Millennium - that's why everyone looks so angry all the time." - Fezman 1/28/13
2017/05/15 22:08:57
Subject: Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon (KS in the Spring)
My solution, of course, is to clump sets from different tile manufacturers and material used by DF into different areas of the dungeon. Then have the dwarves blame the other clans for any problems.
KS 5 has been pushed back by a week, the new launch date/time is Saturday, June 17th.
From Facebook:
We’re thrilled to announce the launch of our newest Kickstarter – Dungeon of Doom!
⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ The time and date: 11AM, US Eastern time, Saturday, June 17th. ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ (We had originally intended to launch earlier, but we wanted to devote one more week to getting more Castle shipments out to backers.)
Our goal this Kickstarter: design, sculpt and paint the most comprehensive, compelling — and fun — modular dungeon terrain assortment ever offered.
We are thrilled with the detail, the variety and the exciting new features. We hope you will be as well.
2017/06/11 12:50:03
Subject: Re:Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon : Starts June 17th, 11am EST
Wonder if this round is actually going to be useful to gamers vs rich guys building overly fiddly dioramas and playsets to pew pew in. Given they want to produce 190 different pieces, I'm guessing no. The first two were great for value because instead of running off to make some niche mold for a paid add-on with "wall with 3 cracks and magnetized candle holder on the right side" they'd give you more pieces.
2017/06/12 19:24:00
Subject: Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon : Starts June 17th, 11am EST
Because KS5 has (at least previously) been touted as a return to the KS1&2 style with backers getting a higher quantity of pieces with lesser (but presumably still good) diversity.
A comment on their Facebook page In regards to pricing: "We will have a wide variety of options ranging in price, including many affordable bargains."
A cursory glance through more of their Facebook, their forums, and a broader google search isn't showing anything of the sort (nothing much specific at all, really).
So I'm not saying they didn't say it, but I'm not easily seeing this "190 pieces" statement being backed up.
2017/06/12 19:24:11
Subject: Re:Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon : Starts June 17th, 11am EST
I mean as nice as that looks, and it does look nice, I cant help but think Id be better off visiting hirstarts and just dealing with the hassle of casting stuff over and over.
But I guess Im still just more time rich than I am money rich. Some people arent.
2017/06/12 19:33:50
Subject: Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon : Starts June 17th, 11am EST
Forar wrote: Where have you seen the "190 pieces" quote?
Because KS5 has (at least previously) been touted as a return to the KS1&2 style with backers getting a higher quantity of pieces with lesser (but presumably still good) diversity.
A comment on their Facebook page In regards to pricing: "We will have a wide variety of options ranging in price, including many affordable bargains."
A cursory glance through more of their Facebook, their forums, and a broader google search isn't showing anything of the sort (nothing much specific at all, really).
So I'm not saying they didn't say it, but I'm not easily seeing this "190 pieces" statement being backed up.
Sorry, it was 150. Number came from the email I got
"Without your support on Kickstarter, large scale production of this incredible assortment (about 150 different items) just isn’t possible. We’d never get past the tooling, production and inventory requirements – huge steel molds that require long production runs for efficient production of each piece. "
Full text below.
Spoiler:
Dear Gamers –
We’re thrilled to announce the launch of our newest Kickstarter – Dungeon of Doom! — hand-sculpted and painted terrain for gamers.
Date: Saturday, June 17th
Time: 11AM, US Eastern
Place: Kickstarter.com
Our goal for this Kickstarter: design, sculpt and paint the most comprehensive, compelling and fun modular dungeon terrain assortment ever offered.
We are thrilled with the detail, the variety and the array of great new features. We hope you will be as well. Here’s a preview photo:
Without your support on Kickstarter, large scale production of this incredible assortment (about 150 different items) just isn’t possible. We’d never get past the tooling, production and inventory requirements – huge steel molds that require long production runs for efficient production of each piece.
That’s why we continue to count on our amazing backers, and it’s why we always offer the product at a lower price during the Kickstarter campaign than it will ever be again.
An important note: For those of you who haven't yet received your Castle from last year's Kickstarter, you might wonder why we are launching this new Kickstarter before completing shipments of the last one. It's a fair question that we know we should address.
Last year's delay was prompted by our retooling some of the key pieces to improve their fit and sturdiness. It was significantly compounded when we didn't finish tooling and casting before Christmas production season -- when die makers and casting equipment get shifted to large retailers, and our capacity takes a back seat to completing and shipping their seasonal merchandise. It proved to be a painful bottleneck.
Needless to say, we are extremely grateful for your patience. We don't want to repeat this with Dungeon of Doom -- and we've been asked by the factory to start tooling by early July in order to avoid it. This is the main reason we are launching now.
We hope you understand -- and please know that 100% of Castle production is complete. Our US warehouse is fully devoted to completing shipments in the next couple weeks and all non-US shipments are packed and en route (if not delivered already).
Thanks so much! We hope to see you on Kickstarter next Saturday morning the 17th!
Dwarven Forge
2017/06/12 19:34:24
Subject: Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon : Starts June 17th, 11am EST
One of my favourite aspects of DF's work is that this stuff is nearly indestructible. Packing up requires zero care, it can all be thrown into a bag without a care in the world. Rapid setup by throwing everything on a table and building out swiftly, and rapid takedown with the above method is something I appreciate. Makes traveling with it to friend's houses a snap as well, though the collection is getting big/heavy enough to require a suitcase and then some, for sure.
It's definitely not for everyone, that I agree with. Hopefully they do have more affordable options this time around. KS3 and 4 got fairly steep.
Edit: ah. Well, I guess we'll see in ~5 days.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/12 19:39:38
2017/06/16 02:11:04
Subject: Re:Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon : Starts June 17th, 11am EST
The campaign is live, and there are just a ton of options this time. Based on adding up the Encounters found in one of the middle tiers, it seems the tiers might have a roughly 10% discount compared to picking them a la carte.
It's complicated at first glance, but having the encounters be distinct builds showcasing what can be made (a common complaint in the 3rd and 4th Kickstarters) along with a 'build your own tier' option that is explicitly laid out gives a lot of options.
The campaign funded in something like 10 minutes, and is growing swiftly, as is often the case for followup campaigns to previous large/successful ones. Only 24 days left on the clock means they are following their pattern of shorter campaigns, which makes sense with how front loaded (in terms of supporters) they are.
I like what I see and will now spend the next three weeks trying to avoid talking myself into a higher tier than I should get into...
2017/06/17 16:33:37
Subject: Dwarven Forge KS 5 : Return to the Dungeon : Starts June 17th, 11am EST
Looks like DF is going for the "deluxe" market, rather than "return to KS1". I preferred the KS1 generic pieces with fewer sculpts since I could throw together something that worked, rather than search for a particular piece. I would then use dungeon terrain to customize the look, if I wanted to. Plus, I wasn't paying $2.50 for a tile!
Forums say they will have the basic sets at the same price as the website, so this will save postage for domestics.
The Campaign continues to do pretty well, as someone who has now watched all 5 unfold live. They're up to 1.6m in funding, with tiers that range from a single room to an entire (large) table worth.
They're gradually increasing the add ons throughout the campaign without having them tied to funding levels as has often been the case in previous campaigns, and it seems to be keeping a reasonably steady amount of funding progress going. Yes, there's an argument to be made as to whether or not the funding wouldn't be the same if they'd just dropped everything at once from the start, but I think having an already somewhat overwhelming tier/encounter/add on selection at the start and growing over the weeks is a better approach.
Those who lived through the infamous 'omg spider webs?!?!' period of KS2 know what I'm talking about.
They also just released the 'KS1 upgrade pack', that's lighter on the 'filler' walls and floors, and heavier on the nifty newer bits like LED walls/torches and magnetic sections. $99-144 plus either a lower tier or the 'build your own tier' level are still a substantial sum, but helps people kit out older collections with a higher proportion of LED/Magnetic/etc bits without adding unreasonably to their potentially already numerous piles of walls and floors.
I've been a bit wary of bumping this, because it often seems to come down to 'omg this is expensive, let's just talk about some other product instead', but I think they've got some cool stuff in here, and for existing or new fans, while not cheap, I can speak to both DF's quality (this stuff is nearly indestructible, in my experience) and customer service.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/26 22:23:16
I only got in on the caverns. I'm more of a wargamer, so had an idea of making a Zone Mortalis type board for a fantasy skirmish... but just didn't need the functionality of every tile being movable (and it ended up really expensive for doing even at a skirmish-game scale!). I can see it being just fantastic for 
