Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello everyone, I am looking to get into Warmachine and the protectorate of menoth seem to be a good choice for me in terms of looks and how they play. A few questions though. I thought both pKreoss and Thyra, flame of sorrow looked like fun and I like their style. Are these casters considered competitive? Viable? Also I was wondering if people could help me out with this basic list I was looking at to start out with?

Thyrah - + 29 points
Blood of Martyrs - 16 points
Sanctifier - 14 points
choir of menoth - 4 points
choir of menoth2 - 4 points
Daughters of the flame - 10 points
Exemplar Errants - 16 points

Total: 35 points

What do people think? what changes would make this list more viable? I have not played before so any tips would be greatly appreciated. Also I was wondering how good are the 2 jacks I picked overall? Thanks.

Blood is great, you'll get a lot of use out of him with casters like Thyra, Amon and Reznik2 (if my local menoth guy is anything to go by). Sanctifier... may see less use, but I have seen some people from outside my immediate local area running them a bit at tournies, so they're definitely playable

I don't think your list needs the second choir really, there won't be many times that you need 1 jack to have X prayer and 1 jack to have Y prayer, and 1 choir unit can spread out an awful long way if needs must. I'd definitely look at trying to squeeze a vigilant in there, it's a light warjack with shield arms. Can be annoying to kill at range, but more importantly it will really help keep Thyra alive by providing cover (+4 DEF vs ranged attacks) and stopping her suffering blast damage (which is a threat to casters like her). Apart from that I'm not going to be great help with Thyra, while my local guy really wants to play her and keeps saying he will, he can't drag himself away from his current favourites just yet so I haven't seen her on the table in Mk 3

 Kharnthebetrayed wrote:
...Are these casters considered competitive? Viable?...

This isn't a question you have to ask much with Warmachine; the developers have it balanced to the point where you can take pretty much any caster anywhere with the right army. Competitiveness comes from what you take with what and from what you do with it, not from what your stuff does in a vacuum. Usually. Mk.3 still has a few kinks getting ironed out.

As for the list it looks pretty standard, though you will want to drop the second Choir and you're probably going to want a bit more ranged firepower for reasons of flexibility (and because your warjacks are too slow to get to melee with everything you want them to all the time). I'd suggest dropping the Sanctifier and the second Choir for a Vanquisher and a Vassal Mechanic; you gain melee hitting power out of the trade (one POW 14 initial and one POW 16 initial for a POW 16 initial with Thresher), plus an AoE gun to scatter onto targets the rest of your army can't get to and the ability to repair things if someone cripples a 'jack with a lucky Hunter shot on turn one or some such (edge case, but he's a 1pt model and he fits into the gap nicely).

I used to recommend anyone starting Menoth get the battlebox, a Choir, and an Errant unit; haven't seen them in action enough in Mk.3 to know if that still stands, but the Errants remain a fantastically flexible unit, can hit far above their weight class (especially with Silence of Death from Thyra for POW 11 Weapon Master, at that point on average rolls five will take down a Khador heavy when charging), are a useful tool to learn about some of the funnier quirks of positioning and order of operations (with self-sacrifice), and pack a solid melee unit and a solid ranged unit into one reasonably-priced package. It's hard to find a warcaster that can't get use out of them.

Alternatively, if you want a decent "jack of all" unit, Idrians can do God's Menoth's own work very reliably. I personally like their aesthetic, but I get that others may not if they got into the faction for the knights.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Kharnthebetrayed wrote:
...Are these casters considered competitive? Viable?...

This isn't a question you have to ask much with Warmachine; the developers have it balanced to the point where you can take pretty much any caster anywhere with the right army. Competitiveness comes from what you take with what and from what you do with it, not from what your stuff does in a vacuum. Usually. Mk.3 still has a few kinks getting ironed out.

As for the list it looks pretty standard, though you will want to drop the second Choir and you're probably going to want a bit more ranged firepower for reasons of flexibility (and because your warjacks are too slow to get to melee with everything you want them to all the time). I'd suggest dropping the Sanctifier and the second Choir for a Vanquisher and a Vassal Mechanic; you gain melee hitting power out of the trade (one POW 14 initial and one POW 16 initial for a POW 16 initial with Thresher), plus an AoE gun to scatter onto targets the rest of your army can't get to and the ability to repair things if someone cripples a 'jack with a lucky Hunter shot on turn one or some such (edge case, but he's a 1pt model and he fits into the gap nicely).

I used to recommend anyone starting Menoth get the battlebox, a Choir, and an Errant unit; haven't seen them in action enough in Mk.3 to know if that still stands, but the Errants remain a fantastically flexible unit, can hit far above their weight class (especially with Silence of Death from Thyra for POW 11 Weapon Master, at that point on average rolls five will take down a Khador heavy when charging), are a useful tool to learn about some of the funnier quirks of positioning and order of operations (with self-sacrifice), and pack a solid melee unit and a solid ranged unit into one reasonably-priced package. It's hard to find a warcaster that can't get use out of them.

Actually, IMO the Hand of Judgment is a better buy than the battle box, though it certainly synergizes with Malekus as well as with anything else in faction.

 carldooley wrote:
...Actually, IMO the Hand of Judgment is a better buy than the battle box, though it certainly synergizes with Malekus as well as with anything else in faction.

I tend to recommend new players get the battlebox for the sake of getting started quickly and for participating in Journeyman Leagues if they run across one; they're by no means mandatory, and they don't always have the most useful units (whoever decided we needed a Pureblood in the Circle one wasn't thinking straight), but they're inexpensive, they've got a paper rulebook for those who like that sort of thing, and they're a good place to jump in from.

(No, seriously, I know they were jumping through hoops to make all the battleboxes 0pts on the dot and I know Warpwolves are hilariously expensive, but they ought to have done whatever hacking on Tanith they needed to for +32 warbeast points and made it a Feral. The Pureblood is a situational tech piece that makes no sense in a battlebox game, the Feral is a core heavy and primary warjack-murdering tool.)