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Why not have drop pods for tyranids? Using nearly the same rules as the Space Marines have?

How about a seed pod, that counts as a hive node with the same stats as a marine one, like a huge orbital seed full of bugs?  For balance maybe it could only take non monstrous creatures (and maybe carnifexes too, because marine dreads seem to have no problems dropping).  Or better still, maybe they can only drop non Hive node creatures in the pods?

I think this would add some fire to the Tyranids list that they could use, and even be well incorporated into the fluff with the seeding pod concept, what say you?

What you're talking about are mycetic spores. They've been in the fluff forever and even had some rules, once upon a time.

The problem as I see it is that most Tyranids units (other than maybe a Carnifex) aren't terribly effective in a deep strike role. What makes SMs so darn tough when dropping is that they can unload effective firepower the turn they drop, and then have the resilience to shrug off the return fire they'll inevitably receive. Tyranids can't really dish out the dakka, nor can they hold up to a lot of basic firepower. Try dropping Raveners sometime and you'll see what I mean.

Now, if they can assault out of the spore, or can drop directly into close combat, that's another story. But alas, the seeding swarm list is no more and I doubt we'll ever see it return.

Gorgon,

The big difference between the old Seeding Swarm list and what Augustus is proposing is that there would be an actual drop pod model on the board now.

Smaller bugs could drop out behind the pod and be relatively safe from fire, and then use their fleet rule to come from behind the pod and assault the next turn.

It would actually probably be quite lethal.

It's interesting and deserves some playtesting. It might turn out to be perfectly fair as Augustus thinks it might.

It's not as unbalanced as I was originally thinking. I was picturing 32 hormaguants leaping out and chewing the faces off a gunline, but they can't attack the turn they touch down, and they will probably will be out of synpase, so although it'd be very difficult to wipe the unit out, it could be made to turn tail and run. This could also finally provide a way for CC 'fexes to again be workeable, rather than limited to a lumbering point sink.

I think that limiting the type of synapse creatures that could spore strike in like this (maybe to just warriors) would help keep things in hand, allowing you to get a lot of creatures in close to your oppenents, or just a couple tough ones, but at the risk of them being broken, or being subjected to IB.

It would have to be specific for a Seeding Swarm army variant. Wonder what the stas would be like ? T 6 W 4 Sv 4+ maybe ?
And then being able to buy some of the mutations (+1T +1 W +1 Sv) or maybe having a larger version only for the 'Fexes and Tyrants.

To make up for the Tyranids poor shooting, being able to upgrde units to Ferocious would be useful (can assault after deepstriking, takes a S 2 hit w/o saves at the end of the players turn).

I was picturing 32 hormaguants leaping out and chewing the faces off a gunline, but they can't attack the turn they touch down, and they will probably will be out of synpase, so although it'd be very difficult to wipe the unit out, it could be made to turn tail and run.

I think Augustus is proposing that the spore would act as a synapse creature. So morale checks can be an issue if you only have a spore or two, but in an all-mycetic spore list, that means they'll just run toward the nearest intact spore on the table. You'd still have the unit, it just might not be exactly where you want it. Spore lists might be more dangerous, but also harder to coordinate, and coordinated assaults are pretty much the key to Tyranid play.

As I see it, the big questions to think about are what units should be eligible for spore deployment (and on a related point, how many passengers can fit in a spore), should spores be an upgrade to the current list or part of a new "seeding/vanguard" list, and how to handle synapse?

Some rambling thoughts about units:

From a fluff standpoint, Gaunts, Hormagaunts, Warriors, Carnifexes, Lictors and Genestealers are probably the classic "vanguard" organisms, so let's start with those. Gaunts can shoot a little, so they might be okay, although their shooting effectiveness won't look anything like a SM tac squad. They'd be a good distraction, however, as they're a threat to tie stuff up next turn if you ignore them. The passenger limit in a spore would one of the make-or-break issues with Gaunts, with the other being synapse. If the spores are synapse, Gaunts will be fine. If not, it'll be very hard to coordinate Gaunt drops with Warrior or Broodlord drops. If all your Gaunts and no synapse come in on turn 2, you're screwed.

IMO, Hormagaunts (and Raveners, for that matter) are fast enough that they can hide from fire and get where they need to go in two or three turns anyway. Hormagaunts would get a big boost in escalation missions, since they wouldn't have to start from the table edge. I really like Carnifexes for spore deployment. As Bookwrack said, CC fexes might have a chance of being useful. Warriors would be fine in a shooting support/h2h support role, and more useful overall if Raveners and Zoeys are out of the picture. Lictors in spores don't make much sense rules or fluff-wise...maybe they stay in the list but deploy normally?

Genestealers would probably be the deadliest thing in the army. In particular, Broodlords could be very nasty deployed this way. If we're talking about designing a separate list, maybe BLs become the only HQ choice? Genestealers would still compete with Gaunts for Troops slots, and assuming spores won't have anything close to a 32-Gaunt capacity, your overall numbers in a spore army might be low compared to a codex army.

There are many interrelated factors here...it'd certainly require some work to balance them. If anyone wants to work on this idea for submission to WD or something, I'm willing to help out.

To make the synapse workable, the spore list could have an alternate force allocation: something like Imperial Guard platoons that include a command squad + troop squads as a single force allocation (that deep strikes at the same time in a Drop Trooper list).

So: Any Warrior unit must attach 1-2 broods of Gaunt/Hormagaunt/Stealer/Ripper/Carnifex/Ravener for the purposes of Deep Striking (hey, you need the synapse to guide the seed pods in). And Gaunts/Hormagaunts/Fexes/Raveners *must* be attached to a Warrior unit in order to Deep Strike by seed pod.

Maybe allow Stealers and Rippers to drop without Warrior units, since they don't need synapse.

Possibly require Winged Warriors as an attached unit in order to drop in Gargoyles (outside of pods, of course)?

Allow only the Broodlord as HQ, I like that. Maybe allow two of them in that case? Or, allow 0-1 Winged Tyrant and allow it to sub in for Winged Warriors to lead Gargoyles.

Just some ideas.

Interesting idea. It would certainly guarantee synapse support, but I'm starting to wonder if that should be the goal. Given that spores would allow you to drop things like Broodlords right next to your opponent's units, maybe it *should* be challenging keeping the synapse together. Assuming that Genestealers and Carnifexes will be the most popular options in a mycetic spore list, you may not need a ton of synapse on the table anyway.

So that got me thinking that maybe there's two types of spores...the mycetic troop-carrying variety and synapse spores. Synapse spores would act as stationary synapse as Augustus originally envisioned, but without the troop-carrying capacity. They could come something like 1-3 in a HS slot, and you just drop them where you think you'll need the synapse. Think deep striking but immobile Zoanthropes.

Between hive node spores, dropping Warriors and Broodlord(s), and Lictors allowing reserve rerolls when necessary, you'd probably be okay. The synapse spores would be vulnerable, but targeting them comes at the cost of not targeting the assaulty units that just dropped next to you. Plus, this list probably allows you to set up some LOS-blocking h2h combats more quickly than a standard list. I know this isn't at all what Augustus was envisioning, but it'd probably fit more closely with the current codex's emphasis on synapse.

I usually don't venture into the "proposed rules" forum, but I love this idea. Give me the option t odrop a couple carnifexes down, and then assault next turn making a 300pt assaulting monstrosity just devastating. I'll take a couple please, or maybe a whole list. PLEASE somebody at GW read this forum and go "that sounds like a good idea."

Thanks all!

I like your idea of differnetiating the seed pod and the Hive mind pod Gorgon! Thats a good concept also.

I think drop pods for tyranids would be a great thing, remember they can't charge the turn they drop, so they will still be vulenrable, but I could surely imagine the volley a drop podding dakka fex good produce.

Plus wouldn't big slimy seed drop pods for tyranids just look great, and fit in the fluff too? I have long been an advocate of tyranid vehicles of some sort and I think a seed pod would be just the thing to start with!