Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Looking to build an Orruk force in the spirit of regular orcs + variants, is it worth going vanilla or is time and money better spent with Ironjaws or Bonesplittas? Still stuck in the old WHFB mentality that a good, proppa orc force is filled to the gills with regular orcs, with savage/black orcs to season/add variety.

I've a SC! greenskins, metal wyvern (cannibalized from WHFB), 5 extra boar boys (also cannibalized) and a box of savage orruks at the moment. Aside from both variants, does the humble orruk see battle? Sure, the sprues beside the boar boys are dated, but it's a great kit.

Debating whether to commit to one or two keywords, or just throw caution to the wind and pick and choose orc units, regardless of keyword synergy. I do have some fluff thought out for the Warboss being vanilla- He's Ragnar, armed with the Battleaxe of the Last Waaagh! Now, since Manfred helped end the world, Ragnar and the axe were lost, unable to properly end the world. Aeons passed until Gork (or possibly Mork) said to Mork (or possibly Gork) "pull my finger". The resultant digital removal became Ragnar, reincarnated to end the world, again, but this time on Gork's (or possibly Mork's) terms.

Having become quite angry at the 'depressin' state of fings' (dey don't make dem orcs like dey used to), Ragnar's 'gonna 'ave a werd or two to that Archaon fella' but first, he's gonna assemble the Last Waaagh! and rampage across the realms.

I figure it gives me a bit of leeway and explains why the overall leader isn't an Ironjaw on Cabbage Wyvern (I want one, but not until everything is painted). Plus it means a relatively unique army given that there's no recent love for regular orcs.

Army composition and general fluff pointers would be appreciated!

I'd definitely say Ironjaws and Bonesplittas are more "in the meta" than straight up O&G (especially the Bonesplittas). I mean, Ironjawz are just like an army of Black Orcs (which is pretty awesome in itself) and Bonesplittas are literally renamed Savage Orcs.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I'd definitely say Ironjaws and Bonesplittas are more "in the meta" than straight up O&G (especially the Bonesplittas). I mean, Ironjawz are just like an army of Black Orcs (which is pretty awesome in itself) and Bonesplittas are literally renamed Savage Orcs.

But they play ok In my experience. Plus you may add a tiny bit of both just to add extra flavour. Like regular O&G, a unit of black orcs won't take out the theme flavour.

Ok, so they aren't as good, but not left in the dust. That's reassuring as I don't really want to commit to one particular strain of greenskin.

Hopefully the regular orc gets an overhaul sometime this year, given their SC! box contains pretty old models. Getting some paint on the first 10 savage orcs as we speak.

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
Ok, so they aren't as good, but not left in the dust. That's reassuring as I don't really want to commit to one particular strain of greenskin.

Hopefully the regular orc gets an overhaul sometime this year, given their SC! box contains pretty old models. Getting some paint on the first 10 savage orcs as we speak.

Yeah, it will happen. My theory is that they'll get a similar treatment to stormcast: a single battletome for the three armies.

Considering how insane the Destruction allegiance trait is, you should probably be fine, even if you're not quite as good as Ironjawz or Bonesplittaz. That ability alone should be able to carry most armies.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
Ok, so they aren't as good, but not left in the dust. That's reassuring as I don't really want to commit to one particular strain of greenskin.

Hopefully the regular orc gets an overhaul sometime this year, given their SC! box contains pretty old models. Getting some paint on the first 10 savage orcs as we speak.

Yeah, it will happen. My theory is that they'll get a similar treatment to stormcast: a single battletome for the three armies.

I'm under the impression that the newest "orruks" will be the basic orc soldiers in the future, once the scale leap transition is completed.

Philhelm wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
Ok, so they aren't as good, but not left in the dust. That's reassuring as I don't really want to commit to one particular strain of greenskin.

Hopefully the regular orc gets an overhaul sometime this year, given their SC! box contains pretty old models. Getting some paint on the first 10 savage orcs as we speak.

Yeah, it will happen. My theory is that they'll get a similar treatment to stormcast: a single battletome for the three armies.

I'm under the impression that the newest "orruks" will be the basic orc soldiers in the future, once the scale leap transition is completed.

Ehh, not really, Orruk tribes are very divided, with bonesplitterz doing their whole gig, Ironjawz going on to their business, and the regular gitz being independent.

Lord Kragan wrote:

Philhelm wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
Ok, so they aren't as good, but not left in the dust. That's reassuring as I don't really want to commit to one particular strain of greenskin.

Hopefully the regular orc gets an overhaul sometime this year, given their SC! box contains pretty old models. Getting some paint on the first 10 savage orcs as we speak.

Yeah, it will happen. My theory is that they'll get a similar treatment to stormcast: a single battletome for the three armies.

I'm under the impression that the newest "orruks" will be the basic orc soldiers in the future, once the scale leap transition is completed.

Ehh, not really, Orruk tribes are very divided, with bonesplitterz doing their whole gig, Ironjawz going on to their business, and the regular gitz being independent.

It just doesn't make sense to me that GW would introduce yet another strain of greenskin just because. With the war scroll format, there is no need to invalidate the old orcs, but I doubt we'll see updated models.

Philhelm wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

Philhelm wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
Ok, so they aren't as good, but not left in the dust. That's reassuring as I don't really want to commit to one particular strain of greenskin.

Hopefully the regular orc gets an overhaul sometime this year, given their SC! box contains pretty old models. Getting some paint on the first 10 savage orcs as we speak.

Yeah, it will happen. My theory is that they'll get a similar treatment to stormcast: a single battletome for the three armies.

I'm under the impression that the newest "orruks" will be the basic orc soldiers in the future, once the scale leap transition is completed.

Ehh, not really, Orruk tribes are very divided, with bonesplitterz doing their whole gig, Ironjawz going on to their business, and the regular gitz being independent.

It just doesn't make sense to me that GW would introduce yet another strain of greenskin just because. With the war scroll format, there is no need to invalidate the old orcs, but I doubt we'll see updated models.

Here's the thing. There's no new strain. Ironjaws are just black orcs on steroids. Seriously, consider this: their origins are rooted in the early days of the age of chaos. Bonesplitterz are just savage orcs (on steroids).

Ok, but is there anything on the horizon for regular orruks? I doubt there'll be a removal of them given their SC! box.

Debating whether to have regular orc arrow boys as missile troops, as they can get bonuses to hit, but have 1 attack instead of the savage orc's 2 with their bows.

Also, does the destruction trait with an extra D6 movement stack with the D6 extra movement from 'Da Warstompers' battle formation?

Lord Kragan wrote:
Here's the thing. There's no new strain. Ironjaws are just black orcs on steroids. Seriously, consider this: their origins are rooted in the early days of the age of chaos. Bonesplitterz are just savage orcs (on steroids).

Here is my perspective:

We already know that there is scale creep (more like scale leap) in Age of Sigmar. The first non-Chaos influenced, normal human we have seen that was created for the Age of Sigmar universe is the Excelsior Warpriest from Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower. To a lesser extent, I also think that the new Blood Bowl release gives us an idea of the scale of normal humans (and orcs, for that matter, which are Ironjaw sized). As it turns out, the Stormcast Eternal aren't quite so tall as they would seem to be when compared to, say, Empire models, and the Nurgle Blight Kings aren't actually ogre-sized like when they were released during the End Times, but simply large like the Stormcast Eternals.

My speculation is that the Orruk Ironjaws are simply the next-gen, AOS version of the old orcs. The problem is that GW needed to make changes without invalidating pre-existing armies, so the Ironjaws were made out to be different than normal orcs or even black orcs. With the war scroll format, they never need to officially invalidate the old orcs, but I doubt that we will ever see updated models, especially since we have Ironjaw "boar" riders and an Ironjaw warboss on "wyvern." It is hard to imagine GW making what is essentially smaller versions of those same models in order to keep orcs, black orcs, and Ironjaws at the same time.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
Ok, but is there anything on the horizon for regular orruks? I doubt there'll be a removal of them given their SC! box.

Debating whether to have regular orc arrow boys as missile troops, as they can get bonuses to hit, but have 1 attack instead of the savage orc's 2 with their bows.

Also, does the destruction trait with an extra D6 movement stack with the D6 extra movement from 'Da Warstompers' battle formation?

I haven't seen any rumors about regular orruks/orcs.

If you agree with my assessment, then Ironjaws are a safer investment than pre-AOS orcs. I'm not sure that I would use their inclusion within a "Start Collecting" box as evidence of their longevity, since GW has nothing to gain from not selling preexisting miniatures. I'm not saying that I'm 100% right about the fate of regular orruks/orcs, but I think that Ironjaws are the safer bet, if for no other reason than they were explicitly created for AOS.

I don't agree with the assessment, but I will agree that Iron jaws are a safer bet. I'm not too fond of the Black-orcs-to-11 motif they have. Yes there is a scale leap, but the savage orcs are regular orcs in the fluff who are possessed by Waaagh energy if 1d4chan is to be believed. Regular orcs are the same size, but not of the Ironjaw strain, who are essentially a different 'clan' of orcs. Black orcs were ret-conned into being regular orcs who're tough enough to be tolerated by the iron jaws (again, if 1d4chan is accurate). So the humbly sized orc doesn't look like he's going anywhere just yet.

Honestly I feel that the older models in the SC! are both placeholders and ways to shift old stock, but aside from the boar differences, it holds up pretty well. I just want to have a greenskin mob pillage...er, redistribute wealth, across the realms without having to double down on the variants.

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
I don't agree with the assessment, but I will agree that Iron jaws are a safer bet. I'm not too fond of the Black-orcs-to-11 motif they have. Yes there is a scale leap, but the savage orcs are regular orcs in the fluff who are possessed by Waaagh energy if 1d4chan is to be believed. Regular orcs are the same size, but not of the Ironjaw strain, who are essentially a different 'clan' of orcs. Black orcs were ret-conned into being regular orcs who're tough enough to be tolerated by the iron jaws (again, if 1d4chan is accurate). So the humbly sized orc doesn't look like he's going anywhere just yet.

Honestly I feel that the older models in the SC! are both placeholders and ways to shift old stock, but aside from the boar differences, it holds up pretty well. I just want to have a greenskin mob pillage...er, redistribute wealth, across the realms without having to double down on the variants.

Ironjawz actually do accept other clan orruks, they just tend need to be the biggest and the 'ardest and fill out the Ardboyz group.


I feel that normal Orruks will get their change as well, Ironjawz represent tough mean greens that don't care for much except being elite and being up in one's face, and Savage Orruks represent the more spiritual, monster killing side.

Normal Orruks are going to either fill a more Horde style, or a more Mechanical style being that maybe they'll still have the machines like Catapults and the like, make up for less 'Ardness with smartness by being the Cunningly Brutal sort of orruks.

I play Greenskinz a lot (though have temporarily shelved them to work on other projects).
They are fully a horde army, which IJ isn't and Bonesplitters aren't as much. Pure Greenskinz does work. Now, do they match up to the Bonesplitters? At the moment, no - they're generally priced higher and lack that crucial extra wound that all the Bonesplitters have. Seeing that, I expect that they'll either go down in points cost, becoming even more of a horde army, or get that extra wound, becoming a beefy-as-hell horde army.
I really like Orcs/Orruks, and am not a huge fan of the IJs, and Bonesplitters don't do it for me either. So I chose Greenskinz, though all of mine are converted Space Orks.
But if you're running pure Greenskinz without:
- An Orruk Warboss as general with the Waaagh Banner buffing a unit of 30+ Orruks;
- An Orruk Warboss on Wyvern with Battle Brew; and
- A Rogue Idol of Gork/Mork...
You're not going to get very far.

I play all three flavors of Orruks, and the regular boyz work just fine. They're more fragile than their 2-wound per model cousins, but the regular Orruk's Waaagh is still a devastating command ability. Unfortunately because of their low leadership and 1-wound per model you may need to make a tough choice between calling a Waaagh and using inspiring presence to keep models from running when they get in a big scrum. When playing regular Orruks I'm a big fan of chariots to harass the enemy and help make sure your boyz get to charge the enemy on their own terms. The chariots have good saves and won't run, letting you tie up key enemy units until you've setup for your Waaagh.