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do you think Calgar will yeild command of the Ultramarines back to him, or will he be hesitant?

Hopefully Calgar will be executed for his use of heretical weaponary.

LightKing wrote:
do you think Calgar will yeild command of the Ultramarines back to him, or will he be hesitant?

IIRC in one of the leaked pictures he’s there marching beside him.

A lot depends on the nature of his revival. From what I’ve heard it’s a mix of xenos stuff and AdMech. But that’s all I’ve heard. If it’s real heavy on the xenos stuff, I could see some doubt creeping in.

But at the end of the day, I think Calgar would serve loyally. Might be a little resentment, but only a tiny bit. I think the honour and pride of fighting alongside his primarch would overwhelm most everything else.

Will Roboute have command over the other chapters besides the Ultramarines?

LightKing wrote:
Will Roboute have command over the other chapters besides the Ultramarines?

He shouldn’t. Doesn’t mean he wont.

Chapters work together all the time. Normally the most senior officer is given command. Probably weighted with the older chapters having precedent. But lots of politics etc. and swing things.

In any imperial force, I think the assumption is that Roboute will have overall command. But it’s not a given. Any other marine chapter, even Ultramarine descendants, is a completely autonomous force. They can tell him to get stuffed, and be completely within their rights. Now they probably wont, but could.

He probably can’t just command guard or navy assets either. No more then a chapter master could. Again, if he speaks up, any admiral or general in the area is probably going to listen and obey. But it’s not required.

It’s almost like someone structured the armed forces of the imperium so one individual couldn’t just mobilize huge swaths of the war machine on his word.

LightKing wrote:
Will Roboute have command over the other chapters besides the Ultramarines?

I think most successor chapters would see their Primarch and bend knee.

So the real question is how will the High Lords of Terra and the Inquisition react to Roboute's return

 Ketara wrote:

LightKing wrote:
Will Roboute have command over the other chapters besides the Ultramarines?

I think most successor chapters would see their Primarch and bend knee.

Honestly, I think any chapter would.

While not their direct father, he’s their “uncle”. Rouboute fought beside their primarch, knew him. He harkens back to the glory days of all marines. He knew/knows the Emperor. Almost literally one step removed from god.

And he wrote the book of warfare, and helped rebuild the imperium from the rubble of the heresy. He probably has more combat experience then anyone alive. While he might be a little behind on current events, he’s a genius and will probably be up to speed in no time.

I’m not going to say everyone is going to follow him blindly. Especially with the situation of his revival. But I think most people in the imperium would be hard pressed to find a reason not to give a lot of weight to what he has to say.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LightKing wrote:
So the real question is how will the High Lords of Terra and the Inquisition react to Roboute's return

Politics could get ugly. No lie. The IoM is not in a good place right now, and a lot of that can be left at the feet of the HLoT. A living Primarch is a threat to the status quo, so those entrenched in power have a lot to fear. It could go a lot of different ways. I think it’s a bit early to tell how GW is going to write things.

Roboute in the field is not a big threat. He’ll just cruise around, putting out fires and killing xenos/traitors. But if starts to looks at the organization and infrastructure, things are going to end poorly for those at the top of the heap. At least some of them. And as logistics was RG’s big thing, he’s going to get to it eventually, assuming he survives in the field.

I'm sure Calgar would hand the chapter over to Guilliman if he asked but I doubt he will. One would think he would set his sights higher than just one little chapter.

I'm sure that if Guilliman has time to look at the Imperium's infrastructure he'd seriously shake things up, but I'm 99% certain that by the end of all this, Roberto will have nobly sacrificed himself in order to maintain the status quo.

 Nevelon wrote:
He probably has more combat experience then anyone alive.

I very strongly doubt that. He saw centuries of war during the heresy but has been asleep for millennia. Meanwhile most CSM are VotLW!

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
He probably has more combat experience then anyone alive.

I very strongly doubt that. He saw centuries of war during the heresy but has been asleep for millennia. Meanwhile most CSM are VotLW!

And much of those few centuries were spent counting beans, pushing pencils and destroying peaceful cities belonging to other legions.

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
He probably has more combat experience then anyone alive.

I very strongly doubt that. He saw centuries of war during the heresy but has been asleep for millennia. Meanwhile most CSM are VotLW!

And much of those few centuries were spent counting beans, pushing pencils and destroying peaceful cities belonging to other legions.

I stand corrected.

I almost put a “In the IoM” note on that. Any time you talk about those alive, chaos will almost always win any comparison on timed things.

Yes. It is possible that as individuals Dark/Eldar may take the record (no one really knows how old Vect is) but as an overall faction it is difficult to beat CSM for longevity.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Yes. It is possible that as individuals Dark/Eldar may take the record (no one really knows how old Vect is) but as an overall faction it is difficult to beat CSM for longevity.

Vect ascendency is about 6000 years old. In M35, he took control of Commoragh, the Kabal system was founded and Dark Eldars as we know them were born. Lelith is older than him if I'm not mistaken, while Urien was born at the beginning of Commoragh fall into decandence 25 000 years ago. As for Eldrad, he was already the leader of Ulthwé during the Horus Heresy. The Swarmlord consciousness might be millions of year old. In world of ancient monsters,, immortal demi-gods, a 300 years old Primarch is a child who wakes up in a world he doesn't know. Yarrick might have more war experience than him.

I'll be pissed if they have Roboute do a one in done for this book...like Vulkan in Beast Rises

epronovost wrote:
Vect ascendency is about 6000 years old.

He claims he was there to see the Fall of the Eldar. Now, he himself is obviously not a reliable source, but it is not impossible.

 Ashiraya wrote:

epronovost wrote:
Vect ascendency is about 6000 years old.

He claims he was there to see the Fall of the Eldar. Now, he himself is obviously not a reliable source, but it is not impossible.

He could very well be indeed. He is, afterall, at least 6000 years old. Lots of Eldar heroes have memories of the Fall or its early aftermath.

Rowboat Heresy?

Seeing all this emperor worship and the state of things, I reckon Rowboat would try to throw his weight around and get a lot of marines to his side- all ultramarine successor chapters would flock to him and he's have near half the loyalist marines on his side because of that. Fingers get pointed at rowboat hypocrite girlyman for having so many chapters under him; he'd deny it and say things are dire and he needs to take command personally cuz humans done gone fethed up; he begins his long time plan to take over the imperium *cue civil war and rowboat making another empire* why? Hey, he did write a book about why his dad sucks at ruling and how he'd have done it better. Rowboat, the secret traitor- cmon, marines have never been around to save the imperium and tyrannic wars don't count cuz they were just saving their own skins.... That's how I hope it goes at least. Probably be more space marine fanboyish though

epronovost wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

epronovost wrote:
Vect ascendency is about 6000 years old.

He claims he was there to see the Fall of the Eldar. Now, he himself is obviously not a reliable source, but it is not impossible.

He could very well be indeed. He is, afterall, at least 6000 years old. Lots of Eldar heroes have memories of the Fall or its early aftermath.

Right, he conquered commogaarath 6000 years ago. He might have had 10,000 years before that.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
He probably has more combat experience then anyone alive.

I very strongly doubt that. He saw centuries of war during the heresy but has been asleep for millennia. Meanwhile most CSM are VotLW!

He has been in stasis for millenia, so no time will have passed for him. It will be as if he wakes up seconds after he fell asleep

His perception of his time spent in stasis is not relevant to his combat experience.

 Ashiraya wrote:
His perception of his time spent in stasis is not relevant to his combat experience.

And by that same vein, most of those Veterans of the Long War have effectively experienced similar.

Remember that for some of them, the Siege of Terra was "just yesterday" while in the material universe time has long since gone by.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
His perception of his time spent in stasis is not relevant to his combat experience.

And by that same vein, most of those Veterans of the Long War have effectively experienced similar.

Remember that for some of them, the Siege of Terra was "just yesterday" while in the material universe time has long since gone by.

I would like to ask you for a source on that 'most' claim.

The Warp is irregular and unpredictable. Some have only experienced centuries (notably Talos' Night Lords) but this is not a rule.

Some, such as the Black Legion (according to their supplement at least) being spoken of throughout the supplement as having experienced ten millennia of warfare.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
His perception of his time spent in stasis is not relevant to his combat experience.

And by that same vein, most of those Veterans of the Long War have effectively experienced similar.

Remember that for some of them, the Siege of Terra was "just yesterday" while in the material universe time has long since gone by.

I would like to ask you for a source on that 'most' claim.

The Warp is irregular and unpredictable. Some have only experienced centuries (notably Talos' Night Lords) but this is not a rule.

And I would like to ask you for a source citing "most CSM are VotLW".

Seeing as how neither of us can produce one specific bit that the other will likely say is "canon", it's best to just take it at face value.

 Kanluwen wrote:

And I would like to ask you for a source citing "most CSM are VotLW".

IA13, page 16, first paragraph under 'Rites of Death'

Your turn.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

And I would like to ask you for a source citing "most CSM are VotLW".

IA13, page 16, first paragraph under 'Rites of Death'

Your turn.

I don't have IA13, so that effectively means nothing.

Why? Because nothing published outside of that supports your assertion.

I take it Leviathan Dreadnoughts don't exist to you either because there is nothing supporting their existence outside of FW?

 Ashiraya wrote:
I take it Leviathan Dreadnoughts don't exist to you either because there is nothing supporting their existence outside of FW?

Do you understand the concept of "throwaway references"?

Leviathan Dreadnoughts, while a FW item, have more supporting them aside from a single line in one book.

Sure, call it a throwaway reference just because you don't like it.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Sure, call it a throwaway reference just because you don't like it.

Find any other source besides that one line in that one book citing it, or being generous, anything similar to that statement ("most CSM are Veterans of the Long War" or "many of the CSM fighting today are legionnaires who fought in the Heresy")

I call it a throwaway reference because it's a one and done.